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Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

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Old 08-03-17, 07:09 PM   #76
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow69 View Post
OOH, this reminds me of a story a friend told me about a trip to the bath house. Apparently, he stuck he weenie into a gloryhole, and had the most amazing BJ. After it was done, a little person popped out from behind the wall, laughed, and said "Got ya!!"

I guess it goes to show you, you shouldn't make assumptions about anything involving your wiener.
Wasn't there a lawsuit where a Women performing in a Glory hole Video found out she blew her Bio Brother? I can't remember if the people who made the video intentionally cast him for that reason or not.
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Old 08-03-17, 07:10 PM   #77
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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Originally Posted by hdnmickey View Post
I discovered long ago (because at the time it might have applied to my wife) just how many "sex is only for reproduction" crazies out there believe exactly that. It's another bullet point on their women are not actually equal, and should be submitting to men, diatribe.

As for the original question, it's amazing that this thread is ongoing since it was clearly answer by you and others in the first few posts. Short of some act during the encounter that has nothing to do with one of the participants being transgender, that leaves only the possibility of deception causing it to be rape. So unless somebody is one of those bigoted people that refuses to acknowledge people can be legitimately transgender, they would understand there is no deception involved with the person simply being transgender.
Huh? Does he(Supermallet) have the final word on all things?
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Old 08-03-17, 07:24 PM   #78
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post
Huh? Does he(Supermallet) have the final word on all things?
Given that I rarely agree with him on anything, I'm going to say no.
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Old 08-03-17, 07:28 PM   #79
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

I love you too, shmoopie!
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Old 08-03-17, 07:34 PM   #80
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

Does altering Star Wars canon count as rape?



Obvious answer: yes!
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Old 08-03-17, 08:32 PM   #81
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post
Lately in the news thee have been stories about Men killing Transwomen after finding out that they were in fact born Male. Some had had sex with them and killed them after the fact. I guess this type of story is where I'm focused.

In the comments for these stories I've been seeing more and more Men say that in a situation where a Transperson tells them AFTER they have sex that they are Trans, it should be considered rape.

What do you think? I'm struggling with the issue be because while I get what they are saying, I'm not sure how its any different from any other lie a person tells to get sex. "I have a big dick", I'm a "size 4", "I'm good at blowjobs", "I'm not married", "I don't have a boyfriend/girlfriend", "ill call you again..", etc. I also personally believe some of these killers in fact KNEW they were having sex with TS's and the killing came after the "guilt" of enjoying someone who used to be a man or I think in one case...the man killed because his buddies found out.

I maintain that if people actually TOOK THE TIME TO GET TO KNOW a person BEFORE they fuck them, then this situation, no matter how female the Transperson looks, will never happen. I mean of the Trans people I have known, I figured it out within 10 minutes of meeting them. And I'm talking VERY STEALTH TS's.
I would agree with you.

Rape could mean that although a consensual sex activity may have happened...it should NOT have happened at a certain point when one of the participant's said "NO". In other words, somebody STOPPED or wanted to STOP the activity at that time, but the activity went on WITHOUT their permission.

In the cases you mention, sex was agreed upon and consensual...all the way to the end of the event.

Even if one of the people involved finds out their former sex partner was not a woman/man, this is after the fact, and it would not be rape--it would just be an experience of one of the partners who's foolish sexual encounter...is now giving them a guilt trip.

And this really is what it is...a guilt trip.

It's no different than a man and a woman having intercourse, and then the man finds out the woman was taking advantage of him because he was wealthy, and now feels he was "raped" because he was lied to.

I think the people who are screaming "rape" after having sex with a partner they don't know the sex of until after the fact...is one of the most lame excuses I've heard. They enjoyed the fucking. They enjoyed the sucking. Case closed.

Like you said, taking the time makes all the difference.
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Old 08-03-17, 09:42 PM   #82
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draven View Post
How is it a "trick"? Is it a trick if a woman doesn't tell a man she suffers from depression before they have sex?
It's a "trick" because it's like false advertising.

Just like this:



No, it's not a trick to not say that she suffers from depression.
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Old 08-03-17, 09:45 PM   #83
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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Originally Posted by grundle View Post
It's a "trick" because it's like false advertising.

Just like this:



No, it's not a trick to not say that she suffers from depression.
What false thing is being advertised?
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Old 08-03-17, 09:50 PM   #84
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
What false thing is being advertised?
Judging from the pictures, prime beef vs. mystery meat road kill.
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Old 08-03-17, 11:33 PM   #85
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

The main reason for non disclosure prior to the sexual act, is that the trans person knows that they would most likely be turned down for the sexual encounter if they revealed they were trans BEFORE the act occured.
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Old 08-03-17, 11:34 PM   #86
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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Originally Posted by movieguru View Post
The main reason for non disclosure prior to the sexual act, is that the trans person knows that they would most likely be turned down for the sexual encounter if they revealed they were trans BEFORE tyhe act occured.
Any links to back that up?
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Old 08-03-17, 11:42 PM   #87
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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Originally Posted by movieguru View Post
The main reason for non disclosure prior to the sexual act, is that the trans person knows that they would most likely be turned down for the sexual encounter if they revealed they were trans BEFORE the act occured.
Since you're literally just repeating yourself (with nothing to back up your claim, by the way), I'll just repeat my answer to this again:

By that exact same logic, when millions of cis men choose not to disclose to their sexual partners that they have a significantly smaller than average package, that's, by your definition, deceit by concealment, because they know that those partners would likely not have the sexual encounter if they did.
Better throw them all in jail then!

Or... Maybe they don't know how the partner might react, but at least they don't have to be as worried about getting beaten up or murdered over it.

Maybe trans people can't actually read the minds of everyone they meet, and maybe they really don't know if their prospective partners are or aren't open to it. I mean, if a guy is flirting with, hitting on, and trying to bang a transwoman, it could very well be because it's not something that bothers him at all. Why should she be forced to lay it all out for him? Why (in Current Year) should she have to be the one to assume that the guy hitting on her is a super straight transphobic totally straight dude bro expecting to get laid who might murder her if she doesn't tell him or tells him at the wrong time? Or, Maybe she's flattered that he's into her because he can "tell" and he's cool with it. How /why is she supposed to know?

As I said before... It all seems incredibly complex, but I'm not convinced that transgender individuals should be required to share that information immediately out of fear of making someone (usually cis men) panic about their own sexuality. Straight cis men don't need to be coddled.
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Old 08-03-17, 11:48 PM   #88
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

Non Disclosure appears to be illegal in the UK:

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/201...e-trans-status
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Old 08-03-17, 11:58 PM   #89
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan View Post
Since you're literally just repeating yourself (with nothing to back up your claim, by the way), I'll just repeat my answer to this again:

By that exact same logic, when millions of cis men choose not to disclose to their sexual partners that they have a significantly smaller than average package, that's, by your definition, deceit by concealment, because they know that those partners would likely not have the sexual encounter if they did.
.
Dicks come in all sizes and what small is relative. It's also very trivial, where previously having a dick cut off is not.

Lets look at this scenario: A trans man meets a woman, doesn't disclose that he is tran and initiates a sexual encounter. It's in the dark and since the tran doesnt have a penis to satisfy the woman covertly uses an artificial means without letting the woman know. The woman was only consenting and expecting to have a real penis in her instead is being proded by something other than what she was expecting or would have consented to had she known. That's just deceitful and wrong.
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Old 08-04-17, 12:05 AM   #90
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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Originally Posted by Draven View Post
Any links to back that up?
The three known cases mentioned by the OP of the men murdering the trans woman pretty much backs up this theory.
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Old 08-04-17, 12:25 AM   #91
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

Quote:
Originally Posted by movieguru View Post
The three known cases mentioned by the OP of the men murdering the trans woman pretty much backs up this theory.
So no proof then that this is the "main reason" when a transgender person doesn't announce it to the bar. Got it.
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Old 08-04-17, 12:44 AM   #92
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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Originally Posted by Draven View Post
So no proof then that this is the "main reason" when a transgender person doesn't announce it to the bar. Got it.
you asked for proof and you got it right from the original post. if you want to see a scientific survey look for one on the internet. But it is clear that they withhold that information for a reason.
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Old 08-04-17, 12:46 AM   #93
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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Old 08-04-17, 03:25 AM   #94
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

Quote:
Originally Posted by movieguru View Post
Non Disclosure appears to be illegal in the UK:
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/201...e-trans-status
Yeah, that's not exactly correct. Did you even read the article, or did you just find a title that suited your point and went with it?
1. The girls were minors. He said he was 17, but he was actually 25.
2. http://whittlings.blogspot.co.uk/201...se-of-his.html
Quote:
WILSON’S CRIMES
Wilson, who committed his offences in Scotland, has been convicted of the offence of obtaining ‘sexual intimacy by fraud’. Wilson kissed and cuddled with one girl, and apparently used some sort of prosthetic phallus during sexual activity with a second girl.
These cases have always bothered me.

Frequently the complaint is not instigated by the young women concerned but by their parents. It appears the young women only agree to go forward with the complaint because they are frightened of their parents thinking they might be lesbian (and worse, beating them for being lesbian).

However, what is really strange about the Wilson case is, as I will later discuss, is that Wilson appears to have been charged with a non-existent criminal offence.
It sounds like the prosecutors went after him for both the fact that he lied about his age to have sex with minors, and tacked on the bit that he "lied about his gender" despite the fact that he had identified as male since a young age. The case sounds pretty messed up, honestly. But it's not as cut-and-dry as saying the part about his gender disclosure was illegal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by movieguru View Post
Dicks come in all sizes and what small is relative. It's also very trivial, where previously having a dick cut off is not.
Nope, sorry. If one is deceitful and a legitimate reason to turn down a sexual encounter, then they both are. Equally.
Also at you insisting that size is "very trivial." If a woman really wants to be with a man who big like a can of pepsi and circumcised, but doesn't ask, and it turns out he's neither of those, then that's deception on his part, by your standard.

Quote:
Lets look at this scenario: A trans man meets a woman, doesn't disclose that he is tran and initiates a sexual encounter. It's in the dark and since the tran doesnt have a penis to satisfy the woman covertly uses an artificial means without letting the woman know. The woman was only consenting and expecting to have a real penis in her instead is being proded by something other than what she was expecting or would have consented to had she known. That's just deceitful and wrong.
That's entirely different, and falls under "penetration with a foreign object without consent." A transwoman isn't penetrating a male partner unless that's what they've agreed to do. You're acting like transgender people are all sexual predators based on if/when they choose to disclose that information to a partner. They're not. It's nothing like failing to disclose an STD, either.

Your argument relies entirely on "expectations" of a binary union of two bodies ("as god intended" or some bullshit) despite the fact that there are tons (thousands? millions?) of people that don't meet every bullet point of your criteria.
I asked before, but why does a transgender person have to be the one to assume that the person trying to bring them home (or has already brought them home) is really only actually interested in a straight cis partner? They can't read minds. For all they know, the person is aware, and fully into it. Because that's what's expected of them? Bullshit.

If it's THAT important to you that your partner is only, and has only ever been 100% genetically to your expectations, and you're THAT uncomfortable of being with a transgender person, it's on you to make that clear to your potential partner in advance. Sure, the probability is high (like 1000:1) that the random person you flirt with will meet your expectations, but that doesn't mean that if she happens to be that 1 in 1000, that she has to wear a scarlet T on her dress. They are who they are. If you're not sure, ask. Afraid that you'll scare off a potential partner by asking? Too bad. If you don't ask, you can't be angry when you're disappointed in the result. This notion that there's nothing wrong with straight dudes like us assuming that every woman meets our expectations of physical anatomy is absurd.

As for this exchange:
Quote:
Originally Posted by movieguru View Post
The main reason for non disclosure prior to the sexual act, is that the trans person knows that they would most likely be turned down for the sexual encounter if they revealed they were trans BEFORE the act occured.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draven View Post
Any links to back that up?
Quote:
Originally Posted by movieguru View Post
The three known cases mentioned by the OP of the men murdering the trans woman pretty much backs up this theory.
No, they really don't.
They back up the fact (not theory) that some straight dudes are so fragile in their masculinity, that they have to respond to transwomen with violence to prove they're not gay.
They back up the fact that many transwomen and transmen are downright afraid, for good reason, that they'll be beat up or murdered, whether they disclose "at the right time" or not.
They back up the fact that many transgender men and women are afraid to come out to their friends, family, employers, and strangers, precisely because (mostly) straight cis men are prone to hurting them, either for their own sake, or on behalf of a friend/family member who they feel was deceived.
They back up the fact that grade-school sex ed is so fucking terrible that grown-ass adults completely ignore the realities of intersex and/or transgender human experiences, solely because there were always told "there's penis, and there's vagina" and they can't comprehend anything more complex than that.

You said earlier in the thread:
Quote:
Most trans originally had the appropriate organs and biological features that corresponed to how they were identified at birth
Sure, many of them might fit that bill. Many others may have few, some or even MOST of the corresponding biological features, but not all. You just don't know because it's a case-by-case basis, and there's only so much (expensive!) testing that can be done to prove with 100% certainty one way or the other whether the victims (the trans people who were murdered) had 100% of the "incorrect" anatomy according to their murderers' expectations. In the NatGeo link from the Bathrooms thread:
Quote:
In terms of biology, some scientists think it might be traced to the syncopated pacing of fetal development. “Sexual differentiation of the genitals takes place in the first two months of pregnancy,” wrote Dick Swaab, a researcher at the Netherlands Institute for Neuroscience in Amsterdam, “and sexual differentiation of the brain starts during the second half of pregnancy.”

Genitals and brains are thus subjected to different environments of “hormones, nutrients, medication, and other chemical substances,” several weeks apart in the womb, that affect sexual differentiation.
So, even if someone's biological features 100% do correspond with what they were identified as at birth, their brain might or might not be a different story.

Either way... they're not being deceptive. They're expressing themselves as they are, just like the rest of us.

My tl;dr point is this.
If you're afraid of having a sexual encounter with a woman who doesn't 100% match your expectations, it is your responsibility to make that clear.
If you can't handle the fact that you might have slept with a non-binary person, then that's your problem to sort through, not theirs.
To expect every transgender person, at any given stage of transition, to disclose their private information (unrelated to STDs) to every potential sexual partner, is downright dangerous for those individuals.
There's never a perfectly "right" time for a transgender or non-binary person to disclose, in order to avoid an assault, because every one of their potential partners will react differently.
Conversely, the potential partner can ask at virtually any time, if they are not comfortable with the possibility. I can't speak for any transgender people, but I would think that some would much prefer that scenario, than the risk of willfully outing themselves to the wrong person.
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Old 08-04-17, 04:47 AM   #95
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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Originally Posted by Dan View Post
Straight cis men don't need to be coddled.
Isn't that an oxymoron?
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Old 08-04-17, 04:49 AM   #96
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post
Wasn't there a lawsuit where a Women performing in a Glory hole Video found out she blew her Bio Brother? I can't remember if the people who made the video intentionally cast him for that reason or not.
The way I look at it, you get an anonymous blowjob through a glory hole, you take your chances.
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Old 08-04-17, 06:28 AM   #97
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post
Wasn't there a lawsuit where a Women performing in a Glory hole Video found out she blew her Bio Brother? I can't remember if the people who made the video intentionally cast him for that reason or not.
Well, I had to look this up, and the story sure didn't dissapoint!

http://www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/love-...ompany-incest/

It reads like something straight out of The Onion.
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Old 08-04-17, 10:10 AM   #98
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

^ It's also bullshit.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st...-10475697.html
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Old 08-04-17, 12:46 PM   #99
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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Originally Posted by movieguru View Post
The main reason for non disclosure prior to the sexual act, is that the trans person knows that they would most likely be turned down for the sexual encounter if they revealed they were trans BEFORE the act occured.
That's reciculous. On many levels. Do you constantly think "I'm a dude, I'm a dude" I need to tell everyone "I'm a dude"? Of course not. A trans man is a man. They may or may not be on meds or had gender reassignment surgery.
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Old 08-04-17, 01:05 PM   #100
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
I would agree with you.
To be clear, I was just talking about the comments of OTHERS in the comment sections of those stories. I lean towards it NOT being Rape.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giantrobo
In the comments for these stories I've been seeing more and more Men say that in a situation where a Transperson tells them AFTER they have sex that they are Trans, it should be considered rape.
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