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Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

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Old 09-10-17, 12:22 AM   #651
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Re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread


Got a respite for a a short while before my next gig so while we continue to wait for the big events to come (they will, be patient) I wanted to address this one item.

I was reading about "leaks" about this story for a while from Taylor's twitter account before I briefly mentioned it here at the end of July. There were a couple things that bothered me about it which is why I didn't hammer on it, or breathlessly relay every little new nugget of info Taylor kept delivering.

Primarily, even if true, it was more tangential to the real story (which is insanely horrendous and fully large enough).

True, it would have provided an indication of the severity of the leverage Russia has on Trump. But at the same time, it takes focus away from just how already serious the other crimes he's involved with are.

And it's the kind of gaudy, dumbed down animal response story that makes everything less serious and intelligent.
When they claimed that Bill Clinton was going to be a material witness (supposedly relating illegal activity Trump told him in conversation re the model stuff), I started rolling my eyes.

But he seemed to genuinely believe in the integrity of his source, so...

He's issued his mea culpea and quickly fessed up to being taken.
I can't recall atm, but how often has Breitbart or Alex Jones (who are supposedly "real" journalists not just tweeters) done the same?

The story is over except for the fact that it casts doubt on all his sources, which I'm sure was not an unintended consequence of the fakers true motives.

I knew this was bound to happen (and probably will again). I think I expressed this in the other thread early on, especially in regards to the MSM. Beware of being seduced by a sensational story- especially one involving sordid personal stuff. Vet the hell out of it because it's just as likely to be a Dan Rather style trap that's been laid.

The problem with the fake Tump Model Agency story- it was predicated on serious matters that are all public record. A woman did accuse Trump of raping her as a teen in connection with Epstein. The suit was withdrawn allegedly over death threats. Epstein did cut a sweetheart deal for pleading guilty to activities that would have sent a non wealthy person to prison for several life sentences.
And Trump has himself admitted to sociopathic entitlement in regards to sexual liberties with females. So nothing here was made up from whole cloth like the Pizzagate story. It was entirely believable taking into account past histories of the principals involved.

The story is done so there is nothing further to say- but I will add this.
When Trump hired Cobb, Cobbs reputation was for getting out in front of a bad story and grabbing hold and reshaping/managing the narrative to his clients benefit.
I'm not saying this is Cobb's personal handiwork. That's not my point.
It's the seeding of false narratives that are exponentially worse or more inflammatory to the end of making the actual truth appear not as bad.
You wear out the consumer who gets worked up over falsehoods and then is ready to say "uncle" by the time the truth does start filtering out.

It's an effective tactic...especially when employed by people who really are corrupt.
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Old 09-10-17, 01:13 AM   #652
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Re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

If anyone is interested, here is a database compiling all stories about the Trump/Russia connection. It's an incredibly large and complex web of people and different players. This website does a good job making sense of all of the Trump/Russia information and providing credible sources to back up every fact. I see why Mueller's team is so large because there are so many aspects and angles to this. If everything pans out, there could be a lot of people going to jail, not just Trump and his admin.

https://trumprussia.wixsite.com/trump-russia
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Old 09-10-17, 01:49 AM   #653
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Re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

Yeah.

I had planned to make the first post of this thread that kind of primer, with a rundown of all the players and associations- but quickly realized that was going to be a ridiculously time intensive task.

Makes more sense to just link to that site instead.
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Old 09-10-17, 05:58 AM   #654
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Re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draven View Post
A) Because it's too perfectly salacious
B) Because if it it existed, it would have come out by now
C) Because Trump isn't acting like Russia has a hold on him
regarding those points:

a) who would've thought that there would be emails with the subject "Russia - Clinton - private and confidential"? If that were posted here, we would've had a good laugh at the silliness of it.

b) come out by now? What is the expiration date on secrets? Was the time "ripe" for the recent revelation that Facebook sold ad space to Russian trolls?

c) We can't gauge the hold that Russia has on Trump by his behavior because we don't know what Russia wants him to do and not do. The Russians are experts at kompromat and know how to use it without exposing themselves. (unless exposing themselves serves a purpose in and of itself)

There's a difference between something being true and that truth being exposed and there being consequences for that truth. There won't be any consequences, it might get is exposed, but at this point with what I know about Trump, I have no reason to believe that the accusation if false.
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Old 09-10-17, 10:29 AM   #655
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Re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

from Esquire

Quote:
The Hard Truth Keeps Trickling Out, Little by Little
It increasingly looks like Russian hackers may have affected actual vote totals.
Quote:
It may well be that the Russians didn't affect the actual numbers last November but, as Bloomberg points out, that was not for lack of trying.

Quote:
In Illinois, investigators found evidence that cyber intruders tried to delete or alter voter data. The hackers accessed software designed to be used by poll workers on Election Day, and in at least one state accessed a campaign finance database. Details of the wave of attacks, in the summer and fall of 2016, were provided by three people with direct knowledge of the U.S. investigation into the matter. In all, the Russian hackers hit systems in a total of 39 states, one of them said. The scope and sophistication so concerned Obama administration officials that they took an unprecedented step -- complaining directly to Moscow over a modern-day "red phone." In October, two of the people said, the White House contacted the Kremlin on the back channel to offer detailed documents of what it said was Russia's role in election meddling and to warn that the attacks risked setting off a broader conflict.

One of the mysteries about the 2016 presidential election is why Russian intelligence, after gaining access to state and local systems, didn't try to disrupt the vote. One possibility is that the American warning was effective. Another former senior U.S. official, who asked for anonymity to discuss the classified U.S. probe into pre-election hacking, said a more likely explanation is that several months of hacking failed to give the attackers the access they needed to master America's disparate voting systems spread across more than 7,000 local jurisdictions.
This may be so, but it's becoming increasingly harder to believe that, in one of those 7,000 local jurisdictions, the Russians didn't strike gold. American democracy went out on the roof last fall.
...We are creeping ever closer to actual evidence that there was Russian ratfcking of the vote totals in the last election. Not long ago, people wouldn't even suggest that out loud. We were made vulnerable to something like this because of the interference by the Supreme Court in Bush v. Gore, by the curious goings-on in Ohio in 2004, by a relentless campaign to convince the country of an imaginary epidemic of voter fraud, and by a decade of voter suppression by any means necessary. The Russians wanted to undermine the confidence Americans had in their elections? We made it pretty damn easy to do that.
full article here
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Old 09-10-17, 10:53 AM   #656
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Re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

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Originally Posted by sracer View Post
I do believe that the tape exists. Why would anyone doubt it?
Because it would have been released by now. You don't just sit on something like that. The longer you sit on it, the more chances you take being sidelined yourself and being made irrelevant, regardless of what you produce. Timing is everything with something like that.
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Old 09-10-17, 11:31 AM   #657
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Re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_SD View Post
from Esquire


full article here
I'm starting to believe this more and more, due to the fact that Clinton got THREE MILLION more votes, and yet Trump won by only 70K spread through 3 battleground states, basically revealing how it was a surgically targeted strike, getting him exactly what he required to win, no more, no less. Shit like that doesn't just happen.
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Old 09-10-17, 04:43 PM   #658
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Re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by slop101 View Post
I'm starting to believe this more and more, due to the fact that Clinton got THREE MILLION more votes, and yet Trump won by only 70K spread through 3 battleground states, basically revealing how it was a surgically targeted strike, getting him exactly what he required to win, no more, no less. Shit like that doesn't just happen.
This argument is severely flawed.

First off, Trump did about 4.5%-6% better than he was supposed to in a bunch of states, not just those three.

I posted earlier on this:

http://forum.dvdtalk.com/13134732-post18276.html

There may have been more of such states but I haven't checked every one.

Second, he didn't get just what was required, no more, no less. He got more. He got 36 more EVs than he needed and would have won if he had won only one (any one) of those three states.

Third, Trump won a stunning 209 of 676 counties Obama won twice and an equally stunning 194 of 207 counties Obama won once. Clinton won only 6 of 2200 counties that Obama lost twice.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...rump-counties/

Here's a map from this link (the dark circle is counties Obama won twice, the light circle is counties he won once):


While most of this change is in the upper midwest, it is not only in those three states and it showed up elsewhere also in many states where it probably didn't change the statewide outcome.

Quite possibly this helped Trump also win Florida, North Carolina and Iowa. It definitely gave him an extra EV in Maine (edit: which would have turned Trump's win into an electoral tie if he had won WI but lost MI and PA).

Yup, surgical strike.
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Last edited by movielib; 09-11-17 at 07:57 AM.
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Old 09-10-17, 09:21 PM   #659
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Re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by movielib View Post

Yup, surgical strike.
Yes, it was.
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Old 09-10-17, 09:33 PM   #660
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Re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

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Originally Posted by slop101 View Post
Shit like that doesn't just happen.
You're right. It just doesn't happen. You have to be a severely flawed and arrogant candidate to make that happen. You have to be a candidate that doesn't listen to their advisers
about taking trips to key states and cities. And Hillary did just that. She did what she wanted to do, not what she was advised to do.

Make no mistake here. If this was any other Democrat, they would have won. Hillary was just the worst candidate Democrats could have dragged out of their bag. They paid for it. That's why you see the areas that flipped. It's because Hillary made them flip.

Come 2020, they will probably flip back, due to the Republicans not promising what they said they would do.
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Old 09-10-17, 10:19 PM   #661
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Re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

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Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
You're right. It just doesn't happen. You have to be a severely flawed and arrogant candidate to make that happen.
Trump is a severely flawed and arrogant candidate and it worked for him. So your logic doesn't hold.
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Old 09-10-17, 10:40 PM   #662
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Re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by slop101 View Post
Yes, it was.
Yup, your imaginary surgical strike has all the precision of this imaginary surgical strike:

Spoiler:
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"[It is an] absurd notion that Hillary is more legitimate because she won a game that neither candidate was playing. Both sides campaigned, strategized, and spent money to win not a popular-vote plurality but 270 electoral votes...

"We donít know who would have won the 2016... presidential race if the president was elected by popular vote because the race would have been run completely differently."

- David French
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Old 09-19-17, 02:08 PM   #663
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Re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

I'm going to put together one last update before I take off in a few days.

Stuff is boiling right now. The Manafort/wiretap story is a big deal. It's going to be the necessary prelude/exposition to the story evidencing their collusion to rig the election.

It's the consensus of a lot of people that things are going to seem to move a lot quicker from here on out.
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Old 09-19-17, 02:21 PM   #664
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Re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

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Originally Posted by Paul_SD View Post
I'm going to put together one last update before I take off in a few days.

Stuff is boiling right now. The Manafort/wiretap story is a big deal. It's going to be the necessary prelude/exposition to the story evidencing their collusion to rig the election.

It's the consensus of a lot of people that things are going to seem to move a lot quicker from here on out.
Considering they've moved...nowhere so far, I suppose anything is quicker.
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Old 09-19-17, 04:12 PM   #665
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Re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

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Old 09-20-17, 03:03 PM   #666
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Re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

For some annoying reason, I'm no longer getting this forum to load properly on the out of date browser on my main mac. So bear with me as I can't easily cut and paste or post the links I had with these notes.

Here's a brief encapsulation of what I'm seeing going on and what is being discussed, just not on here...yet.

-In non-prejudicial procedures, Mueller would meet with the chairs of the 1st committee to entertain impeachment charges. That would be the HJC.

- 9/14. Mueller met with the chairman and the top Dem on the House Judiciary Commitee. It's speculated that the meeting was to discuss the course of action Mueller is going to take in regards to Ryan, McConnell, and all the other dirty R's that are providing a firewall for Trump right now.

- The recent news item that commented that "WH officials privately fear colleagues may be wearing wires" is also telling, and an indication that we pretty far along. If there is uncertqinity about just who is cooperating with Mueller, there is also a greater likelihood that people will start rushing to flip to get the best deals now while there are still deals to be made. Paranoia sets off feeding frenzies and these types of revelations become self fulfilling prophecies.

- Back to HJC's Goodlatte: Ryan tried to oust him and install Dipshit Russian stooge Nunes in the position. Goodlatte was not amused.
Mueller also knows the kompromat Ryan and McConnell have that's keeping the other congressional traitors in line. Nunes, for example, laundered Russian money through his vineyard in Napa Valley.

- PL has been told by his source that Mueller has a 1st tier of indictments already signed and Ryan and McConnell are among them. The others are Trump, family, and close associates. Kushner leads the pack in quantity.

- apparently the 9/9 Camp David retreat was "the mother of all obstruction meetings". Details when they come " will blow you away".

-
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Old 09-20-17, 04:42 PM   #667
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Re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

Why is everything happening "soon"?

That's the thing about conspiracy theories - if you vague them up enough, they can go on forever. We've been waiting for bombshells since before Trump took office. If they've got all this, why don't they move? Every day they don't, Trump and Co. come closer to wrecking the country beyond repair. Even leaks to more reliable sources would help.

Instead it's always "coming" and "soon". Meanwhile, Trump is giving shitastic speeches to the UN and threatening to destroy other countries.
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Old 09-20-17, 05:03 PM   #668
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Re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

Here’s what we actually know:

Mueller is investigating Trump and his associates.

Here’s what we don’t know:

Most of everything else speculated in the wake of what we do actually know.
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Old 09-20-17, 05:03 PM   #669
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Re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

They should just replace "soon", with "not soon enough!
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Old 09-20-17, 05:44 PM   #670
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Re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

PL is saying he expects Ryan, and McConnell will be out by the end of October.
Those need to be the first to fall before there can be any real action with Trump and his admin/associates.

Its also been said before, Trump ain't getting the chance to even pardon the turkey this year.
I know it seems like forever when so much looks so crushingly obvious, but this really is warp speed. Remember, via recent reports in the msm, manafort has been tapped/hot miked for for years. They've been on to these guys for a while. Coordination with other investigations and ops; the minimazation of
civil unrest...and that last point...much better to unleash things that might prompt that when the weather is getting colder. Not that I think Trump would have many protestors supporting him. But every little tactical advantage helps - and his supporters would be a good bet to be violent...without the paid agitators financed by the FSB.
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Old 09-20-17, 07:20 PM   #671
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Re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
Hereís what we actually know:

Mueller is investigating Trump and his associates.

Hereís what we donít know:

Most of everything else speculated in the wake of what we do actually know.
But I can dream, can't I?
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Old 09-22-17, 06:41 PM   #672
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Re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

House intel Democrat on Russia probe: 'If you had seen what I have seen, you'd want me to go full throttle'

Representative Mike Quigley (D), member of the House Intelligence Committee, spoke at an event yesterday.

The highlights from the article:
  • The committee's probe "is closer to its infancy than conclusion."
  • Republican Rep. Devin Nunes "has been much more difficult and troublesome" since the Russia investigation began.
  • While Nunes stepped aside from the probe in April, he "has not fully given up" the responsibilities of that role.
  • "For instance, he insisted that he's still the one who signs the subpoenas," Quigley said. "So who's the boss? You can't have two people running the investigation on the House side."
  • Nunes "is not the only" committee Republican creating problems.
  • "I'm there as we're questioning witnesses. And some day these transcripts will be made public. Many of you are going to say, 'what the hell are they doing?' They seem to be taking over the role of a second attorney for the witness testifying before us. And it's conflicting, and it's difficult. It's difficult enough as it is to do this job when you're running into all of these obstacles."
  • It is "conceivable that Republicans and Democrats would have separate reports" if they issued their findings about the investigation today.
  • "I was old enough to understand, and watch, Watergate. This is so much more important. Because I believe, that if you had seen what I have seen, you'd want me to go full throttle."
  • Quigley added that he is very concerned that special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation "could be shut down."
Watch the talk, archived on Periscope: https://www.pscp.tv/renato_mariotti/1YpJkmNNeeMKj

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