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Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

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Old 03-20-17, 01:38 PM   #1
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Tax dodging businesses

So Amazon didn't have to charge tax for the longest time, which gave them an unfair advantage over brick-and-mortar stores.

Threat about Amazon eventually charging sales tax here.

Apparently Uber is doing the tax avoiding practice too, outside of the US.


Before I saw this video I thought that Uber's model seemed a little too good to be true. My uncle says that Uber has opened up shop in Mexico and already put a hurting on the local cabbie business there.

Anyone have an opinion on this, or more knowledgeable about it? I'm just making this post in a hurry, so hopefully I can come back and add more info on this.
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Old 03-20-17, 01:48 PM   #2
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Re: Tax dodging businesses

All regulations should apply to all.

The Amazon thing had to do with specifics if laws accross state lines (if I understand correctly). They were certainly not the only on-line retailer doing it. And now no one can whin about it can they? And Amazon is doing just fine.

I'm a huge Uber fan. IMO the only reason their model works and how terribly, utterly awful taxis are. If I have to taxi, I don't go.

Uber has some issues. No doubt. And they need to be addressed. But I'm pretty "meh" about it. I can't believe people use Uber only to save a few penny's on tax.
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Old 03-20-17, 02:51 PM   #3
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Re: Tax dodging businesses

I prefer Lyft. Every story I read about Uber is worse than the last. I hope their company continues to implode.
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Old 03-20-17, 06:18 PM   #4
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Re: Tax dodging businesses

Uber and other ride sharing companies are succeeding because taxi service has sucked everywhere in the world for decades. No one likes taxis.
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Old 03-20-17, 06:31 PM   #5
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Re: Tax dodging businesses

Amazon has warehouses in almost all states now. So they charge tax in all of those states. They put up that all that stink about it, and now it barely matters anyways.

I'm sure all of those state-government loving patriots out there filled out their forms to accurately and honestly compensate their city/state governments on their tax-free big screen TV's.

I remember 'the old days' (early 2000's) when I had a friend who would pull some maneuver to avoid paying tax on his car purchases. Something about buying a car in CA and shipping it to AZ. But I think there was an extra step or two in there.
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Old 03-20-17, 07:09 PM   #6
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Re: Tax dodging businesses

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Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post
The Amazon thing had to do with specifics if laws accross state lines (if I understand correctly). They were certainly not the only on-line retailer doing it. And now no one can whin about it can they? And Amazon is doing just fine.
The law has always been that way with regards to mail-order sales.

Businesses that do mail order are only required to collect sales tax from customers who live in states where the business has a physical presence. Back before the internet, when you would fill out an order form there would be a line on it that would say something to the effect of "Residents of New York must pay a 4.5% sales tax."

Which meant that, back in the mid-90s and earlier, you didn't pay sales tax on most mail order purchases unless the store was located in your state or had a store in your state (eg. Sears or J.C. Penney).

Even today, most online retailers don't charge sales tax unless they're Amazon (warehouses all over the place), Best Buy (stores all over), Barnes & Noble (stores), and the like. Smaller sellers like DeepDiscount, comic book stores, indie bookstores, and indie music stores still don't charge sales tax to out-of-staters.
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Old 03-20-17, 08:56 PM   #7
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Re: Tax dodging businesses

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Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
Uber and other ride sharing companies are succeeding because taxi service has sucked everywhere in the world for decades. No one likes taxis.
Everywhere in the world? I've used taxis a lot in Taiwan and Malaysia, and they were great.
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Old 03-20-17, 09:32 PM   #8
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Re: Tax dodging businesses

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Originally Posted by Josh-da-man View Post
The law has always been that way with regards to mail-order sales.

Businesses that do mail order are only required to collect sales tax from customers who live in states where the business has a physical presence. Back before the internet, when you would fill out an order form there would be a line on it that would say something to the effect of "Residents of New York must pay a 4.5% sales tax."

Which meant that, back in the mid-90s and earlier, you didn't pay sales tax on most mail order purchases unless the store was located in your state or had a store in your state (eg. Sears or J.C. Penney).

Even today, most online retailers don't charge sales tax unless they're Amazon (warehouses all over the place), Best Buy (stores all over), Barnes & Noble (stores), and the like. Smaller sellers like DeepDiscount, comic book stores, indie bookstores, and indie music stores still don't charge sales tax to out-of-staters.
Yes..:my point. Amazon was doing nothing wrong.

Which makes me question if Uber is (in regards to taxes).

There is a difference between tax dodging v. Tax avoidance. For all of us.
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Old 03-20-17, 10:06 PM   #9
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Re: Tax dodging businesses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
Uber and other ride sharing companies are succeeding because taxi service has sucked everywhere in the world for decades. No one likes taxis.
That is exactly why I started using Uber .. I generally get rental cars when I travel .. but had a few trips where a hotel shuttle/occasional cab made sense. In two weeks I had 3 total shit cab rides and one good one. I downloaded the Uber app in the back seat of that last cab ride and have used them from that point on ... unless I was in a place where Uber was not available. So much better ... probably used it 15 times, my only complaint was one guy was really chatty and I just wanted to read my emails.

As for taxes .. I tend to think they are using the tax code to their advantage ... like pretty much every company/person in the universe does. Much like Amazon/other online retailers do.
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Old 03-20-17, 10:18 PM   #10
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Re: Tax dodging businesses

Are taxpayers technically responsible to pay their own sales tax on sales that don't collect it? I thought that was how Amazon was getting around it for a long time.
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Old 03-20-17, 10:27 PM   #11
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Re: Tax dodging businesses

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Are taxpayers technically responsible to pay their own sales tax on sales that don't collect it? I thought that was how Amazon was getting around it for a long time.
Yes. That's the basic rule for out of state sales/purchases. I made a snarky joke about it in my post. It's definitely something that became dated with the rise of eCommerce.

Like anyone ever filled out the tax form to pay their sales tax on out of state purchases.
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Old 03-21-17, 02:03 AM   #12
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Re: Tax dodging businesses

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Originally Posted by Troy Stiffler View Post
Yes. That's the basic rule for out of state sales/purchases. I made a snarky joke about it in my post. It's definitely something that became dated with the rise of eCommerce.

Like anyone ever filled out the tax form to pay their sales tax on out of state purchases.
Called a Use Tax in Wisconsin:

https://www.revenue.wi.gov/Pages/FAQS/ise-usetax.aspx

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Use tax is the counterpart of sales tax. Use tax must be paid when Wisconsin sales tax (state, county, and stadium) is not charged and no exemption applies. If you purchase taxable items from retailers who do not collect Wisconsin sales tax or bring taxable items into Wisconsin from other states or foreign countries, you owe use tax.
I think I owe about $6 billion. Don't tell anyone.
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Old 03-21-17, 07:02 AM   #13
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Re: Tax dodging businesses

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Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post
Yes..:my point. Amazon was doing nothing wrong.

Which makes me question if Uber is (in regards to taxes).

There is a difference between tax dodging v. Tax avoidance. For all of us.
I'm not really sure what the legal particulars of Uber are when it comes to taxes. It's probably complicated.

Internet taxes are weird. I get charged sales tax when I purchase an app or something from iTunes (and I'm not sure if Apple even has a physical presence in my state) but Amazon doesn't charge sales tax when I buy a Kindle book even though I get charged sales tax when I buy a physical product from Amazon proper (but not FBA marketplace sellers),

I also got charged sales tax from record clubs like BMG and Columbia even though they weren't based where I live. I always suspected they were just pocketing the taxes the collected.
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Old 03-21-17, 07:06 AM   #14
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Re: Tax dodging businesses

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Originally Posted by movielib View Post
Called a Use Tax in Wisconsin:

https://www.revenue.wi.gov/Pages/FAQS/ise-usetax.aspx


I think I owe about $6 billion. Don't tell anyone.
I swear... Taxes based on tne honor system.
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Old 03-21-17, 08:17 AM   #15
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Re: Tax dodging businesses

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Originally Posted by Josh-da-man View Post
I'm not really sure what the legal particulars of Uber are when it comes to taxes. It's probably complicated.

Internet taxes are weird. I get charged sales tax when I purchase an app or something from iTunes (and I'm not sure if Apple even has a physical presence in my state) but Amazon doesn't charge sales tax when I buy a Kindle book even though I get charged sales tax when I buy a physical product from Amazon proper (but not FBA marketplace sellers),

I also got charged sales tax from record clubs like BMG and Columbia even though they weren't based where I live. I always suspected they were just pocketing the taxes the collected.
Apple has stores in 44 states and DC for starters.

http://www.apple.com/retail/storelist/

Yeah, Amazon doesn't charge sales tax for Marketplace items. Because you're not technically buying stuff from Amazon.

My store sells on Amazon. We report our sales to Wisconsin buyers to the state and pay the sales taxes on those. We don't charge the customers so we just eat that tax.

I don't know the answers to your other questions.
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Old 03-21-17, 08:32 AM   #16
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Re: Tax dodging businesses

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Originally Posted by Troy Stiffler View Post
Like anyone ever filled out the tax form to pay their sales tax on out of state purchases.
I did, though I eyeballed it looking at an approximate total of my online orders instead of doing a spreadsheet and calculating the exact amount.
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Old 03-21-17, 09:27 AM   #17
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Re: Tax dodging businesses

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Originally Posted by Josh-da-man View Post
I swear... Taxes based on tne honor system.
Well, the thing is, they can't actually do anything to force payment. By having the rule, they hope at least a few people will pay out of a sense of duty or fear. maxfisher is the only one who ever has.
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Old 03-21-17, 09:37 AM   #18
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Re: Tax dodging businesses

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Originally Posted by Psi View Post
Everywhere in the world? I've used taxis a lot in Taiwan and Malaysia, and they were great.
I would like to see some evidence that taxis in those places do anything on level with uber. Can you track your driver and see arrival times and that kind of stuff?

Last edited by Mabuse; 03-21-17 at 10:42 AM.
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Old 03-21-17, 09:44 AM   #19
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Re: Tax dodging businesses

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I would like to see some evidence that taxis in those places do anything on level with uber. Can you track your driver and see arrival times and that kind of stuff I?
In Taiwan you can. I was in Malaysia before there was an Uber concept, but taxis were plentiful and cheap, and drivers were courteous.

You can't say "everywhere in the world" unless you have checked "everywhere in the world," and the US isn't the world.
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Old 03-21-17, 09:54 AM   #20
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Re: Tax dodging businesses

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Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
Uber and other ride sharing companies are succeeding because taxi service has sucked everywhere in the world for decades. No one likes taxis.
Never once in my life had a problem with Taxi. I've ridden then in dozens of cities.
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Old 03-21-17, 09:59 AM   #21
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Re: Tax dodging businesses

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Originally Posted by Psi View Post
In Taiwan you can. I was in Malaysia before there was an Uber concept, but taxis were plentiful and cheap, and drivers were courteous.

You can't say "everywhere in the world" unless you have checked "everywhere in the world," and the US isn't the world.
Exactly. We are just refuting the statement that "taxis suck everywhere in the world" because that simply isn't the case. In Japan for example, taxis and their drivers are the height of cleanliness and professionalism.
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Old 03-21-17, 10:13 AM   #22
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Re: Tax dodging businesses

I probably haven't been in a taxi more than twenty times in my life. Probably not since the days they smelled from drivers smoking. For that and sometimes other reasons they always seemed to be dirty and rather disgusting. That was enough of a reason to avoid them whenever possible. I assume that has changed drastically.

I've never been in an Uber or Lyft.
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Old 03-21-17, 10:14 AM   #23
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Re: Tax dodging businesses

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Originally Posted by maxfisher View Post
I did, though I eyeballed it looking at an approximate total of my online orders instead of doing a spreadsheet and calculating the exact amount.
Wow. Really living up to that username (though the spelling is different) (also: not an insult). Got to give you credit for that.

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Old 03-21-17, 11:42 AM   #24
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Re: Tax dodging businesses

I've only been to New York 4-5 times but never had issues with taxis there.
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Old 03-21-17, 03:52 PM   #25
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Re: Tax dodging businesses

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Never once in my life had a problem with Taxi. I've ridden then in dozens of cities.
As mentioned I'll no longer go if I have to take a taxi. My worse experience in an uber is 100x better than the best experience in a taxi. Issues I've had,

-Not showing up when called, multiple times
-Not showing up when they said they would
-Refusing to come get me when they find out I'm only going a few miles
-Showing up and me not knowing they are they so they leave
-Refusing to take a CC even tho when I called they said they did and had a CC machine in the back seat (and threatening to leave me on the side of the highway if I didn't agree to stop and get cash for them)
-Rude drivers (multiple times)
-disgusting vehicles that I didn't want to sit in.

The very worse experience in an Uber, driver missed an exit thus costing me a few more dollars. He apologized and said he would call in so they would refund me a few dollars (I never did hear). When I offered to tip, he refused saying he didn't earn it for missing the exit.

I now use uber for getting to and from the airport instead of a shuttle service. No stops and only a couple more dollars (if that). Well worth it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draven View Post
I've only been to New York 4-5 times but never had issues with taxis there.
I have a different expectation for NY. When you just wave an arm and there are instantily multiple taxi's there.

My issue with taxi's is when have to call for them to come get you. I've been stranded multiple times with restaurants closing and taxi's not showing up.

Uber is going thru some issues. I hope they getting them all figured out. I love them. I have two upcoming trips to Vegas and I doubt I'll get a car (like I would in the past) since uber is so good...
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