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Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

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Old 03-20-17, 11:54 AM   #201
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

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Originally Posted by Lt Ripley View Post
Icky icky poo poo.
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Originally Posted by Space Ape Mafia View Post
If you resort to icky icky poo poo like a four year old would, then it's clear you have absolutely no interest in hearing opposing viewpoints.
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I like pissing on fear fueled bigoted opinions.
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Well, keep telling yourself that.
Lt Ripley, are you trying to provide an example of the "demise of public civil discourse"? Because otherwise, you're making Space Ape Mafia look good.
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Old 03-20-17, 12:23 PM   #202
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Old 03-20-17, 12:23 PM   #203
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

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Lt Ripley, are you trying to provide an example of the "demise of public civil discourse"? Because otherwise, you're making Space Ape Mafia look good.
Don't encourage Spotted Fea..I mean Space Ape Mafia!
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Old 03-20-17, 12:59 PM   #204
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

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Lt Ripley, are you trying to provide an example of the "demise of public civil discourse"? Because otherwise, you're making Space Ape Mafia look good.
That's a bingo!
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Old 03-21-17, 03:43 AM   #205
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

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They haven't established a Christian theocracy yet. Rome wasn't built in a day. You have to give them time to build up to putting babies on spikes, jeez!

Edit: In all seriousness I consider evangelical Christians to be the number one threat to this country, so I have no motivation to treat them civilly.

So basically, you have a similar fear of Christian evangelicals that many in this country have towards Muslims.
You compare American Christian evangelicals to the terrorist group ISIS, which to me, sounds similar to people generalizing Muslims in with ISIS or ISIS-ideology (Bill Maher, that dude from Breitbart, etc).
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Old 03-21-17, 05:35 AM   #206
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

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Old 03-21-17, 06:38 AM   #207
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Old 03-21-17, 11:15 AM   #208
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

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So basically, you have a similar fear of Christian evangelicals that many in this country have towards Muslims.
You compare American Christian evangelicals to the terrorist group ISIS, which to me, sounds similar to people generalizing Muslims in with ISIS or ISIS-ideology (Bill Maher, that dude from Breitbart, etc).
The difference is that evangelicals are already enacting their agenda through state legislatures and this Congress and administration.

If your argument is that these are fringe evangelicals, and that most evangelicals don't support this agenda, then I'll ask the same question Ky-Fi asks of Islam, where are the moderate evangelicals who are denouncing these extremists?
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Old 03-21-17, 11:25 AM   #209
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

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If your argument is that these are fringe evangelicals, and that most evangelicals don't support this agenda, then I'll ask the same question Ky-Fi asks of Islam, where are the moderate evangelicals who are denouncing these extremists?
I hear them all the time - unfortunately they are shouted down as either not being "real" Christians or not holding ALL of the extremist views.
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Old 03-21-17, 11:48 AM   #210
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

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The difference is that evangelicals are already enacting their agenda through state legislatures and this Congress and administration.
Yup, evangelicals have more of an impact on American lives than Islam. They are entrenched in the fabric of this country as lobbyists, politicians, corporate executives, etc... trying their best to sway public policy.
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Old 03-21-17, 12:25 PM   #211
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

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If your argument is that these are fringe evangelicals, and that most evangelicals don't support this agenda, then I'll ask the same question Ky-Fi asks of Islam, where are the moderate evangelicals who are denouncing these extremists?
That's because most evangelicals (and nearly all that I know personally) DO support that agenda. I'm swimming against the current in confronting my brothers and sisters who are embracing those extreme positions and showing them how those positions are NOT in line with Scripture.

They have no rebuttal and grudgingly acknowledge that I am right about that but then they shift from the facts of what the Bible says to their feelings. For those Christian acquaintances who DON'T submit to the authority of the Word, I just let them be because they have bigger issues to deal with.
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Old 03-21-17, 12:27 PM   #212
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

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The difference is that evangelicals are already enacting their agenda through state legislatures and this Congress and administration.

If your argument is that these are fringe evangelicals, and that most evangelicals don't support this agenda, then I'll ask the same question Ky-Fi asks of Islam, where are the moderate evangelicals who are denouncing these extremists?

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Old 03-22-17, 11:06 AM   #213
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

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The difference is that evangelicals are already enacting their agenda through state legislatures and this Congress and administration.
So you compare them to a terrorist organization like ISIS? With that reasoning you could compare Iran to ISIS. Any countries with Sharia Law would be comparable to ISIS as well with your logic.


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If your argument is that these are fringe evangelicals, and that most evangelicals don't support this agenda, then I'll ask the same question Ky-Fi asks of Islam, where are the moderate evangelicals who are denouncing these extremists?
Well then you've found common ground with the people who fear Muslim immigration to western countries. I didn't know you agreed with Ky-Fi on that.
If it's a slippery slope, and you're arguing that giving evangelicals too much power in government will end up turning our country into a theocracy like Iran, well then it makes sense to be wary of Islamic influence as well, as we've seen the religious theocracies/laws in Muslim majority countries.
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Old 03-22-17, 11:13 AM   #214
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

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Yup, evangelicals have more of an impact on American lives than Islam. They are entrenched in the fabric of this country as lobbyists, politicians, corporate executives, etc... trying their best to sway public policy.
Yes, because evangelicals and Christians in general are the majority in this country. Which is why there's a lot of fear of increased Muslim immigration to the US, because some think that eventually Muslims will try to sway public policy based on the Quran.
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Old 03-22-17, 11:17 AM   #215
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

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Yup, evangelicals have more of an impact on American lives than Islam. Which is why there's a lot of fear of increased Muslim immigration to the US, because some think that eventually Muslims will try to sway public policy based on the Quran.
The same reason they were afraid of Jews coming here from Europe in the 30's, paranoia and xenophobia.
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Old 03-22-17, 11:36 AM   #216
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

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Yes, because evangelicals and Christians in general are the majority in this country.
If we believe survey results, Christians do make up the majority of those that are religious. But not all Christians have as many beliefs in common as the extreme Muslims that were being discussed. The original point was about extreme Evangelicals, and that group does indeed have many beliefs is common as extreme Muslims. Essentially ISIS has dangerous beliefs that go far beyond beheading people.

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Old 03-22-17, 11:56 AM   #217
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

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So you compare them to a terrorist organization like ISIS? With that reasoning you could compare Iran to ISIS. Any countries with Sharia Law would be comparable to ISIS as well with your logic.
Given that we live in a democracy founded in the ideals of a separation of church and state, and both evangelicals and ISIS want to tear that freedom down in favor of a restrictive theocracy, yes, they have their similarities. You say no evangelicals are putting heads on pikes, and that's technically true, but how about the attacks on abortion doctors? Again, I'm talking about the people on the extremes of the religion in both cases, but in the US, the people on the extremes of the religion have gotten major hooks into our state and federal institutions.


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Well then you've found common ground with the people who fear Muslim immigration to western countries. I didn't know you agreed with Ky-Fi on that.
If it's a slippery slope, and you're arguing that giving evangelicals too much power in government will end up turning our country into a theocracy like Iran, well then it makes sense to be wary of Islamic influence as well, as we've seen the religious theocracies/laws in Muslim majority countries.
I was actually having a bit of a go at Ky-Fi, because he's always using the fringe of Islam to condemn the entire religion. If it was unclear, I'm not condemning all of Christianity, but I am pointing out that there is a certain sect that has gotten really extreme and will pull this country down if we don't stop them.
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Old 03-22-17, 12:37 PM   #218
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

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...how about the attacks on abortion doctors?
The only reason that doesn't happen more often is because of the laws in this country. If we were a Christian theocracy abortion doctors and minority/protected classes like the LBGTQ community would be shown no mercy.
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Old 03-22-17, 12:39 PM   #219
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

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The only reason that doesn't happen more often is because of the laws in this country. If we were a Christian theocracy abortion doctors and minority/protected classes like the LBGTQ community would be shown no mercy.
But witch hunts like that never happen in Western countries! Never!
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Old 03-22-17, 06:54 PM   #220
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

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If it was unclear, I'm not condemning all of Christianity, but I am pointing out that there is a certain sect that has gotten really extreme and will pull this country down if we don't stop them.
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But witch hunts like that never happen in Western countries! Never!
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Old 03-23-17, 08:24 AM   #221
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

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I was actually having a bit of a go at Ky-Fi, because he's always using the fringe of Islam to condemn the entire religion. If it was unclear, I'm not condemning all of Christianity, but I am pointing out that there is a certain sect that has gotten really extreme and will pull this country down if we don't stop them.
Personally I feel the only reason western-style Democracy works is due to the separation of church and state. Like the free press, it's a core, essential principle that is required.

I'm not sure I have a lot of data off the top of my head to back that up, but it is the impression I've gotten from studying so much history.

I'd hazard a guess conservatives think that gun ownership is one of these, but freedom of religion isn't.

One of the reasons democracies do so badly in very religious middle-eastern countries, I think, and fall apart so easily in many other places.

Are there any countries without separation of church and state that have a thriving democracy? Am I wrong?
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Old 03-23-17, 08:37 AM   #222
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

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Are there any countries without separation of church and state that have a thriving democracy? Am I wrong?
The Church of England is, literally, the state church of England. The functional head of the church, the Archbishop of Canterbury, is ex officio a member of the House of Lords. Christian Democratic Parties, i.e., political parties with the word 'Christian' in their name, have historically been the most successful group of parties in post-war Western Europe, although, with the exception of Germany, their electoral success seems to be waning, e.g., the Netherlands. Now, in many ways, these countries are much more secular than the United States, but you absolutely cannot say they have a codified separation of church and state in the way the United States does.
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Old 03-23-17, 01:57 PM   #223
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

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The Church of England is, literally, the state church of England. The functional head of the church, the Archbishop of Canterbury, is ex officio a member of the House of Lords. Christian Democratic Parties, i.e., political parties with the word 'Christian' in their name, have historically been the most successful group of parties in post-war Western Europe, although, with the exception of Germany, their electoral success seems to be waning, e.g., the Netherlands. Now, in many ways, these countries are much more secular than the United States, but you absolutely cannot say they have a codified separation of church and state in the way the United States does.
I thought of the Church of England right away (historical wise) but I'm not well-versed on modern UK, stopped studying Western Europe much past WW2. Never been over there myself either. Thanks for the input.

So are they allowed to go all Christian gung-ho with the laws and such over there?
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Old 03-23-17, 02:03 PM   #224
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

No, because most Britons are irreligious.
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Old 03-23-17, 02:12 PM   #225
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

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So are they allowed to go all Christian gung-ho with the laws and such over there?
During the Thatcher government, moral opprobrium was part of the general ideology, but that really isn't the case anymore with the Tories. I imagine Ukip has its share of 'moral majority' types but they aren't part of the government and hopefully won't ever be. Although, who knows anymore.
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