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Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

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Old 03-09-17, 06:31 AM   #26
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Re: DVD Polizei's International Woman's Day Thread

From other sources :

Rasmea Yousef Odeh - Forced confession under torture.

Donna Hylton - Supposedly was not one of the main perps.

Linda Sarsour - Not a supporter of Sharia or terrorism.

What's the truth, I don't know?

I do know that the agenda of this thread is to attack causes that stand up for minorities/protected classes,
to decide the rules of what is the proper way for these groups protest,
and decide what is or isn't offensive to these groups.

WASP male heterosexuals, the deciders of everything.
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Old 03-09-17, 07:19 AM   #27
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Re: DVD Polizei's International Woman's Day Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by inri222 View Post
What's the truth, I don't know?

I do know that the agenda of this thread is to attack causes that stand up for minorities/protected classes,
to decide the rules of what is the proper way for these groups protest,
and decide what is or isn't offensive to these groups.

WASP male heterosexuals, the deciders of everything.
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Old 03-09-17, 08:03 AM   #28
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Re: DVD Polizei's International Woman's Day Thread

Interesting stance from Nancy "War on Women" Pelosi re: sexism toward (some) women:

_________________________________________

Pelosi's dodge on Kellyanne Conway teaches sad lesson on how to shame

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-San Francisco) appeared on CNN's "State of the Union" with Jake Tapper. Tapper asked her about crude comments made by her fellow Democrat, Rep. Cedric Richmond of Louisiana.

(March 8, 2017)
John KassContact ReporterChicago Tribune

When is it acceptable in America for a woman to be the subject of a disgusting, sexist joke offered by a man making a public speech in Washington?

When she's a Republican.

And when he's a Democrat.

The laughter is the lash of a whip, a lesson to every woman — and every independent-minded girl — who dares think about straying from liberal Democratic group-think.

And then came Nancy Pelosi, to complete the final lesson on political fealty.

Pelosi, Democrat and feminist, taught her lesson while appearing on CNN's "State of the Union" with Jake Tapper.

Tapper asked her about vulgar comments made by her fellow Democrat, U.S. Rep. Cedric Richmond of Louisiana.

Richmond's target was Kellyanne Conway, adviser to President Donald Trump.

Conway had been kneeling on a couch in the Oval Office to take a photo of Trump surrounded by African-American college and university leaders. A photo of Conway on the couch hit Twitter, and the twittersphere went crazy.

The left loved the photo, because it distracted from the Trump/black leaders photo op. And they loved it because they could mock her for kneeling on the couch.
Kellyanne Conway kneels on Oval Office couch, sparks debate

But a few days later, the topic came up at a formal political dinner by the Washington Press Club Foundation. U.S. Sen. Tim Scott, R-S.C., spoke first and made a joke that the Oval Office couch had seen worse things in the 1990s, referring to Democratic President Bill Clinton's sex scandal.

Richmond, who spoke next, went even further. He took the greasy thumbs of Twitter. And he put them in his mouth.

He compared Conway to Monica Lewinsky, the White House intern who had sexual relations with Clinton in the Oval Office in the 1990s. He said Conway was in a "familiar" pose.

"What was going on there, I won't tell anybody," Richmond said to Scott. "And you can just explain to me that circumstance, because she really looked kind of familiar in that position. Don't answer, and I don't want you to refer back to the '90s."

Cue the laughter.

Familiar in the position?

On her knees.

Do you understand, girls?

Republican mothers understand. Pro-life Republican aunts understand. Conserative older sisters, grandmothers, husbands, sons, all understand the use of this political whip.

"Leader Pelosi, the joke was sexist, it was disgusting. Shouldn't the congressman apologize to Kellyanne Conway?" Tapper asked. "And, honestly, where is the Democratic Party in expressing outrage about this?"

Pelosi said she wasn't at the dinner but quickly noted Trump had said extremely crude things about women in a private conversation gone public on that infamous "Access Hollywood" video that was released before the election.

"You all are criticizing Cedric for something he said in the course of the evening — and he maybe should be criticized for that, I just don't know the particulars," said Pelosi. "But I do, every day, marvel at the fact that somebody who said the gross and crude things that President Trump said — he wouldn't even be allowed in a frat house, and he's in the White House."

Trump's statements about women were more than disgusting, and almost cost him the election.

Speaking to Pelosi, Tapper tried again, saying the Trump "Access Hollywood" tape had been discussed and covered extensively.

"I guess the question is: If one criticizes only Republicans when they make crude comments, does that not undermine the moral authority if they don't criticize when Democrats make crude comments?" asked Tapper.

And in her avoidance, Pelosi slammed her lesson home, a lesson to women about what happens in the real political world to women when they don't cleave to the liberal line.

"Well, I think everybody was making crude comments," Pelosi said, "and I just don't know, I wasn't at that dinner. … I'll look at what my colleague said there, but I do think that in the Oval Office we were always, always with decorum appropriate for the White House."

Later, Richmond offered one of those Washington political lickspittle apologies.

It wasn't a real apology where someone says they were wrong and they are sorry. This was the kind that expresses regret for how remarks were interpreted. So if you're offended, it's on you.

"After a discussion with people I know and trust I understand the way my remarks have been received by many," Richmond said in a statement.

"I have consistently been a champion for women and women's issues, and because of that the last thing I would want to ever do is utter words that would hurt or demean them. I apologize to Kellyanne Conway and everyone who has found my comments to be offensive."

Yes, a regular Sir Lancelot.

But just imagine if a Republican Congressman said something like that about a Democratic woman? Pelosi would have much to say. And so would organizers of women's marches and anti-Trump women's political theater.

A Republican man saying that sort of thing about a Democratic woman would make headlines for days and days. And those who declined to condemn it would be shamed.

Comparing Conway to Lewinsky was intentional. And like Tapper said, disgusting.

In this, it is very much like attacks on conservative African-American men, who are demeaned as Uncle Toms.

There was not much in the way of official Democratic condemnation of Richmond. And little public outrage in the media.

But what if you're a woman and you don't buy the liberal Democratic politics?

You shall be shamed.

First comes the mockery that stings like a whip, like a scarlet letter, followed by a relative, partisan silence and a media silence.

People understand this, particularly the young, who fear shaming.

And it teaches a much more profound lesson to young conservative women about political fealty than do liberal marches and women's strikes and public theater.

What does it say?

It says kneel and pledge fealty, or be shamed.

That's what it says.

jskass@chicagotribune.com

Twitter @John_Kass
Copyright © 2017, Chicago Tribune
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Old 03-09-17, 08:09 AM   #29
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Re: DVD Polizei's International Woman's Day Thread

To me, its seems like there's a growing movement of conservatives who, when a group says they feel marginalized or persecuted, respond with 'Fuck you, you're just stupid and by the way, here are a handful of examples of people in your group who I think are real shitheels.' Observing this phenomenon over the past year has driven me to the left faster and further than anything else I can recall. I know there are still a lot of good, decent conservatives out there as I have a lot of friends and family who fall into that category. But the most vocal members, those who seems to be steering the Republican party, frequently come off as such cartoonish assholes that it sometimes feels like a parody.
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Old 03-09-17, 08:17 AM   #30
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Re: DVD Polizei's International Woman's Day Thread

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Originally Posted by maxfisher View Post
To me, its seems like there's a growing movement of conservatives who, when a group says they feel marginalized or persecuted, respond with 'Fuck you, you're just stupid and by the way, here are a handful of examples of people in your group who I think are real shitheels.'
If that's a trend, it's not exclusive to conservatives. And the examples may be extremely isolated, go back decades, and represent tiny fringe elements nearly unanimously shunned and discredited.
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Old 03-09-17, 08:22 AM   #31
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Re: DVD Polizei's International Woman's Day Thread

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Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
Pelosi's dodge on Kellyanne Conway teaches sad lesson on how to shame
Just locker-room talk, no big deal.
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Old 03-09-17, 08:26 AM   #32
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Re: DVD Polizei's International Woman's Day Thread

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Originally Posted by inri222 View Post
Just locker-room talk, no big deal.
I thought that the "What About...." deflection tactic (which, btw, was employed by Pelosi herself) has been roundly criticized in these pages.

Evidently, it all depends upon whose ox is being gored.
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Old 03-09-17, 08:34 AM   #33
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Re: DVD Polizei's International Woman's Day Thread

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Originally Posted by inri222 View Post
Just locker-room talk, no big deal.
Do you really expect Evangelical Trump supporters to not show their hypocrisy once again in slamming Pelosi when they ignore similar things when there is a R next to the name.

Last edited by hdnmickey; 03-09-17 at 08:49 AM.
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Old 03-09-17, 08:42 AM   #34
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Re: DVD Polizei's International Woman's Day Thread

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...respond with 'Fuck you, you're just stupid and by the way, here are a handful of examples of people in your group who I think are real shitheels.'
I see that a lot too. Only I rarely see the acknowledgement that there's a "handful of examples in your group". Most people seem to believe "everyone" is the problem.

What I believe, is that there was a small group of 2-3 million people who actually support Trump, and got him elected. And the others are just lifelong Republicans who will never vote outside their party anyways. But it came down to those ardent Trump supporters that pushed us to where we're at.

Here's something else that's interesting... All the "talk" that happens on Twitter, Youtube, and "comments" sections around the internet. They all seem to be from the same handful of people. There's a growing idea that we're strongly divided 50/50. But all of the division seems to come down to the same (say, 5000) people who are creating "the show" for the rest of us.

For instance, go to Breitbart or any "mainstream media" article. Then look at other comment sections. If you look at the names, you'll see the same people arguing, and the entire community isn't much (if any) larger than ours on DVDTalk. There can be 2000 comments, but it's all from the same 50 or 100 people.

My point is - I think that all you read on the internet is smoke and mirrors. It's all bullshit. It's all what we call "fake eyeballs" in the SEO business. Fake eyeballs create real ad revenue and real stats. And I think it's all fake.
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Old 03-09-17, 09:38 AM   #35
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Re: DVD Polizei's International Woman's Day Thread

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Just locker-room talk, no big deal.
It was wrong and terrible in both situations. The problem as I see it is that the left is quickly sinking to Trump's level. If they start using his kind of vulgar put-down style tactics that will really stink.
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Old 03-09-17, 11:36 AM   #36
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Re: DVD Polizei's International Woman's Day Thread

I agree. I was uncomfortable with the Conway Brazzers memes and really uncomfortable with the slut shaming of Melania. If the left is really going to be about women's rights, they can't go attack a woman on the right for something they would defend a woman on the left if she had done it. And if those on the left are going to attack women on the right, it needs to be on the content of their words and actions, not on their gender.
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Old 03-09-17, 11:46 AM   #37
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Re: DVD Polizei's International Woman's Day Thread

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Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
Interesting stance from Nancy "War on Women" Pelosi re: sexism toward (some) women:
Christ, even when you post an article, it's a giant wall of text with no curation. My eyes glazed over getting to the point (note to John Kass: I know you think you're Mike Royko, but you're not Mike Royko).

Anyway, let's cut to the meat, shall we:

Quote:
"Leader Pelosi, the joke was sexist, it was disgusting. Shouldn't the congressman apologize to Kellyanne Conway?" Tapper asked. "And, honestly, where is the Democratic Party in expressing outrage about this?"

Pelosi said she wasn't at the dinner but quickly noted Trump had said extremely crude things about women in a private conversation gone public on that infamous "Access Hollywood" video that was released before the election.

"You all are criticizing Cedric for something he said in the course of the evening — and he maybe should be criticized for that, I just don't know the particulars," said Pelosi. "But I do, every day, marvel at the fact that somebody who said the gross and crude things that President Trump said — he wouldn't even be allowed in a frat house, and he's in the White House."

...

"I guess the question is: If one criticizes only Republicans when they make crude comments, does that not undermine the moral authority if they don't criticize when Democrats make crude comments?" asked Tapper.

And in her avoidance, Pelosi slammed her lesson home, a lesson to women about what happens in the real political world to women when they don't cleave to the liberal line.

"Well, I think everybody was making crude comments," Pelosi said, "and I just don't know, I wasn't at that dinner. … I'll look at what my colleague said there, but I do think that in the Oval Office we were always, always with decorum appropriate for the White House."

Later, Richmond offered one of those Washington political lickspittle apologies.

It wasn't a real apology where someone says they were wrong and they are sorry. This was the kind that expresses regret for how remarks were interpreted. So if you're offended, it's on you.

"After a discussion with people I know and trust I understand the way my remarks have been received by many," Richmond said in a statement.

"I have consistently been a champion for women and women's issues, and because of that the last thing I would want to ever do is utter words that would hurt or demean them. I apologize to Kellyanne Conway and everyone who has found my comments to be offensive."
So, to sum up:

Democratic Congressman says something offensive about Kellyanne.

Democratic Leader says she doesn't know what he said, she'll take a look at it, then pivots to criticizing Trump.

Democratic Congressman apologizes.

Shitty Chicago Tribune columnist tries to gin up outrage, because if it were a Republican the Congressman would have been lynched by now (we all know Republicans never get away with making crude comments about women).

Shitty DVDTalk poster posts inane column to this thread.
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Old 03-09-17, 11:51 AM   #38
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Re: DVD Polizei's International Woman's Day Thread

It was wrong, she apologized. Still waiting for the many GOP folks that did similar things to apologize rather than rationalize.
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Old 03-09-17, 11:56 AM   #39
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Re: DVD Polizei's International Woman's Day Thread

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I agree. I was uncomfortable with the Conway Brazzers memes and really uncomfortable with the slut shaming of Melania. If the left is really going to be about women's rights, they can't go attack a woman on the right for something they would defend a woman on the left if she had done it. And if those on the left are going to attack women on the right, it needs to be on the content of their words and actions, not on their gender.
I think maybe the reason this happens (and I'm not saying I agree with this at all) is that a lot of libs feel that republican women need to be puritanical because that is the republican stereotype: staunchly religious and sex-negative. So they feel like they are pointing out republican hypocrisy, and maybe it's OK to use that kind of language when pointing out hypocrisy.

Or maybe I'm way off, I dunno.
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Old 03-09-17, 12:28 PM   #40
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Re: DVD Polizei's International Woman's Day Thread

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Originally Posted by joeblow69 View Post
I think maybe the reason this happens (and I'm not saying I agree with this at all) is that a lot of libs feel that republican women need to be puritanical because that is the republican stereotype: staunchly religious and sex-negative. So they feel like they are pointing out republican hypocrisy, and maybe it's OK to use that kind of language when pointing out hypocrisy.

Or maybe I'm way off, I dunno.
I think anyone who cries "foul" after working hard to put Trump in office (with his history of sexual assault and bragging on-tape about grabbing pussies which also introduced "locker room talk" as an excuse for any shitty behavior when it comes to women) doesn't have a leg to stand on.

I wish it would stop in general across the board, but if I were a Republican who supported Trump, I wouldn't throw stones.
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Old 03-09-17, 12:36 PM   #41
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Re: DVD Polizei's International Woman's Day Thread

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Still waiting for the many GOP folks that did similar things to apologize rather than rationalize.
Why should they, they're only trying to make rape beautiful again?
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Old 03-09-17, 02:01 PM   #42
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Re: DVD Polizei's International Woman's Day Thread

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Shitty DVDTalk poster posts inane column to this thread.


There were many abbreviated news reports of the incident in many newspapers (including liberal stalwarts such as Washington Post), blogs, CNN site, etc. for those who don't like op-ed pieces (that run contrary to their beliefs, that is).

The Chicago Tribune ran the piece; evidently the Trib's editorial board didn't feel that it was too "inane" for their readers.

Feel free to write the publisher/editors of all those who ran the piece and related articles and tell them your personal views of them. I'm sure they will take your civil, unbiased critique to heart and mend their ways.

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Old 03-09-17, 03:01 PM   #43
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Re: DVD Polizei's International Woman's Day Thread

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Originally Posted by joeblow69 View Post
I think maybe the reason this happens (and I'm not saying I agree with this at all) is that a lot of libs feel that republican women need to be puritanical because that is the republican stereotype: staunchly religious and sex-negative. So they feel like they are pointing out republican hypocrisy, and maybe it's OK to use that kind of language when pointing out hypocrisy.

Or maybe I'm way off, I dunno.
Melania isn't a Republican, she's married to one. And I haven't heard her say anything about sexual chastity. As for Conway, the sitting on the couch was worth making fun of. But it didn't have to immediately go to her being plowed by a room full of black men. Just my opinion.
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Old 03-09-17, 03:08 PM   #44
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Re: DVD Polizei's International Woman's Day Thread

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. As for Conway, the sitting on the couch was worth making fun of. But it didn't have to immediately go to her being plowed by a room full of black men. Just my opinion.
I think that has more to do with us being perverts than misogynists. If you've ever seen a gang bang porno, that's exactly how it looks like before it starts.
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Old 03-09-17, 03:54 PM   #45
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Re: DVD Polizei's International Woman's Day Thread

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Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
The Chicago Tribune ran the piece; evidently the Trib's editorial board didn't feel that it was too "inane" for their readers.

Feel free to write the publisher/editors of all those who ran the piece and related articles and tell them your personal views of them. I'm sure they will take your civil, unbiased critique to heart and mend their ways.
The Trib has been running John Kass's columns since Mike Royko died 20 years ago. Probably longer, but Kass got Royko's prominent position in the paper (page A2) when Royko died.

Royko was a Pulitzer-prize winning journalist who used a scathing wit and a trenchant voice to take on corruption in Illinois and Chicago politics, and to comment on national issues.

Kass sees himself as Royko's successor (and the Trib apparently agrees, much to my consternation), but he's got nowhere near Royko's talent. Nor does he have Royko's ability to hone in on material worthy of being brought to the attention of his readers.

So while I could always count on a Royko column to be worth my time -- even if I ultimately disagreed with Royko's take -- a Kass column invariably comes across as the rantings of an angry and ill-informed man who was asked to do his best Slats Grobnik impersonation despite never having heard of Slats Grobnik.

You've probably never heard of Slats Grobnik either, but long-time Chicagoans know what I mean.

All of which is to say that while I think the Trib's declining circulation figures over the last few decades are of a piece with the industry in general, personally I believe that putting that bloated, whiny hack in a place of prominence didn't help.

He's been there 20 years at this point, so I'm sure he's not going anywhere, and I'm equally sure I don't want to read his crap.

As for your post here, it was a shitty hit-and-run post. You posted a single snarky comment about Nancy Pelosi followed by dozens upon dozens of lines of cut-and-pasted text. If you wanted to discuss Pelosi's response to Rep. Richmond's comment, maybe you could have actually, y'know, discussed it?
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Old 03-09-17, 04:53 PM   #46
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Re: DVD Polizei's International Woman's Day Thread

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It was wrong, she apologized. Still waiting for the many GOP folks that did similar things to apologize rather than rationalize.
Exactly right. Hmm, I wonder if Strumpf has ever apologized for anything in his life? I don't think the word "sorry" is even in his microscopic vocabulary.
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Old 03-09-17, 05:09 PM   #47
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Re: DVD Polizei's International Woman's Day Thread

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Old 03-09-17, 05:42 PM   #48
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Re: DVD Polizei's International Woman's Day Thread

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As for your post here, it was a shitty hit-and-run post. You posted a single snarky comment about Nancy Pelosi followed by dozens upon dozens of lines of cut-and-pasted text. If you wanted to discuss Pelosi's response to Rep. Richmond's comment, maybe you could have actually, y'know, discussed it?
I thought her comments pretty much indicted herself without her help, but if it means anything, it seems pretty hypocritical of her to feign ignorance of the matter ("he maybe should be criticized for that, I just don't know the particulars") while immediately deflecting to Trump's crude remarks.

I believe that if a GOP representative had made similar comments about a Dem female WH staff member, she would not only have been immediately appraised of the incident but would have gone on the attack with a public statement, issued talking points to colleagues to use in fund-raising letters, etc. Jake Tapper and journalists know "the particulars" but she doesn't? And when presented with the "particulars" on CNN, she still declines to address the comments?

Has Pelosi made any further comment now that she's had time to review "the particulars?" Isn't she still the nominal head of the Dem wing of Congress? Shouldn't she take the lead in addressing what members of her caucus do and say publicly?

And, for the record, Kass's characterization of Richmond's "non-apologetic apology" were right on the mark. He didn't acknowledge that his remarks were offensive. He said that he regretted that some "found" his comments to be offensive and was sorry for how his remarks were "received."

That's classic blame-avoidance tactics in which a person won't admit guilt but says that he is sorry he/she unintentionally offended someone. In other words, the statement wasn't the problem, it was just "some people's" perception of them that was the problem. He didn't mean for his words to be taken in a sexual context...nudge, nudge, wink, wink.

It was wrong when Republicans made fun of Michelle Obama, Janet Reno, Debbie Wasserman-Schultz, and other key Democrats for their appearance, speaking style, fashion taste, whatever. And it's equally wrong for people to make fun of GOP women for the same reasons. It's one thing that should have disqualified President Trump due to comments on women including GOP women or those friendly to GOP such as Fiorina, Kelly, Heidi Cruz, etc.

That sufficient "comment?" Now, what do you have to say about her response...or lack thereof? And you think that the wording of Richmond's statement sounds like someone truly remorseful for the nature of his words? He doesn't even sound sorry for having been outed.

IMO, it really takes blind partisanship to excuse blatant sexism simply because it comes from a preferred party.

Last edited by creekdipper; 03-09-17 at 05:56 PM.
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Old 03-09-17, 09:30 PM   #49
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Re: DVD Polizei's International Woman's Day Thread

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I think that has more to do with us being perverts than misogynists. If you've ever seen a gang bang porno, that's exactly how it looks like before it starts.
Yeah, a blond woman on her knees surrounded by a bunch of black guys... that's a scenario that's been played out a few times.

I can understand the criticisms of the image, but it also serves to poke a stick in the eye of the puritanism and racism that is pushed by certain sectors of the GOP.
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Old 03-10-17, 02:24 AM   #50
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Re: DVD Polizei's International Woman's Day Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by inri222 View Post
From other sources :

Rasmea Yousef Odeh - Forced confession under torture.

Donna Hylton - Supposedly was not one of the main perps.

Linda Sarsour - Not a supporter of Sharia or terrorism.

What's the truth, I don't know?

I do know that the agenda of this thread is to attack causes that stand up for minorities/protected classes,
to decide the rules of what is the proper way for these groups protest,
and decide what is or isn't offensive to these groups.

WASP male heterosexuals, the deciders of everything.

I had to erase the URLs when I quoted you because I have fewer than 30 posts.

Your article on Odeh says:

"A 23 January 1970 report in the Jerusalem Post said Rasmea Odeh and the four other people accused of the bombings were members of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, a designated terrorist organization. The court rejected her claims of torture “for lack of evidence.” Exhibits presented at the trial, which lasted six months and was reportedly attended by an International Red Cross observer, included physical evidence such as bomb making materials found at Odeh’s home. She was sentenced on 22 January 1970."

So she was a member of the terrorist organization that did the bombing, bomb making materials were found at her home, and she has no proof that she was tortured.

Your article on Hylton verfiies what I posted. She as an accessory, not a direct participant, in the kidnapping, torture, rape, and murder of a gay man.

Here is Linda Sarsour in her own words, from her four tweets that were referenced in my previous post:

“10 weeks of PAID maternity leave in Saudi Arabia. Yes PAID. And ur worrying about women driving. Puts us to shame.”

“shariah law is reasonable and once u read into the details it makes a lot of sense. People just know the basics”

"You’ll know when you’re living under Sharia Law if suddenly all your loans & credit cards become interest free. Sound nice, doesn’t it?”

“If you are still paying interest than Sharia Law hasn’t taken over America.”

Your article on Linda Sarsour does not quote any of those four quotes.

But if you actually read her four quotes, it is obvious that she supports adopting Sharia law in the U.S.

She even says that women are treated better in Saudi Arabia than in the U.S., and she seems to be OK with Saudi Arabia's ban on women driving.

"I do know that the agenda of this thread is to attack causes that stand up for minorities/protected classes, to decide the rules of what is the proper way for these groups protest, and decide what is or isn't offensive to these groups. WASP male heterosexuals, the deciders of everything."

This is from an article about the protest:

"a day of striking, marching, blocking roads, bridges, and squares, abstaining from domestic, care and sex work, boycotting, calling out misogynistic politicians and companies, striking in educational institutions"

In my opinion, encouraging girls and women to skip school is a bad idea. I support girls and women going to school, and getting as much education as they can.

In my opinion, encouraging girls and women to stand in the street in front of traffic is a bad idea.

If your daughter told you that she was planning to skip school so she could stand in the street in front of traffic, how would you react?
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