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Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

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Old 12-11-16, 07:18 PM   #126
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Re: CIA: Russia tried to help Trump win the election

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Originally Posted by joeblow69 View Post
I didn't see anything this weekend about TRUMP being involved. Everything I saw said he was just a useful idiot in the whole debacle.
That's the best description of Trump I've seen. Unfortunately he is useful only to the Russians.
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Old 12-11-16, 09:04 PM   #127
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Re: CIA: Russia tried to help Trump win the election

How does one support the current CIA's conclusions without question when it was only a few years ago the CIA was caught with their black panties down, breaking into Senate computers, directed by none other...John Brennan.

How do we know the CIA weren't the ones hacking into America's voting databases, attempting to change outcomes--maybe even attempting to increase the votes for Hillary in states where they were beginning to lean Trump. And who was directing the CIA. And who was directing the head of the CIA.

All the evidence we have is...Trump said Putin was a great leader. I think our standard for evidence has diminished in the last 8 years.

For even an initial finding of evidence, I'd want to see IP logs over the last 72 hours. Why wouldn't those IP logs be shown to the American public, to prove this was even Russian-initiated. Second, we would still have to connect the Russian government to the hacks. And third, we'd have to find out if anyone influenced Russia...to influence the hackers...to influence the databases.

Again, someone show me some evidence.

I feel like I said this same shit over a year ago, when people were making accusations left and right, saying Trump was this or that...then a few months later...silence from the accusing side...and then more accusations of a completely different angle and topic.
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Old 12-11-16, 09:52 PM   #128
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Re: CIA: Russia tried to help Trump win the election

Do you even read what people write?

As already pointed out, you are conflating different types of hacking; i.e. different targets and goals. See below. Stop trying to combine the two. If Russia probed the voting systems but didn't actually change the voter rolls or vote totals, that doesn't mean that Russia didn't hack the DNC, Podesta, etc.
  • Hacking of online accounts containing confidential information of politicians, political organizations, campaigns, and affiliates is intended to influence the minds of voters and thus indirectly influence the election results.
  • Hacking of state voting systems such as voter registration databases and electronic voting machines is intended to directly alter election results.

And there has been some evidence released, mostly by non-government investigators. Some of the info has probably been posted in this discussion forum. I'm just going by memory, but here are some examples:
  • The metadata of hacked and then released files contained Russian language, indicating that it had been on computers of Russian speakers.
  • Different hacks were performed by people using the same bitly account, which was associated with a particular Russian group.
  • The methods and idiosyncrasies of the hackers matched hacks performed in the past by particular Russian groups.
  • The time frame of the hacking activity matches Russia's work day hours.

How Hackers Broke Into John Podesta and Colin Powell’s Gmail Accounts

Quote:
All these hacks were done using the same tool: malicious short URLs hidden in fake Gmail messages. And those URLs, according to a security firm that’s tracked them for a year, were created with Bitly account linked to a domain under the control of Fancy Bear.
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Old 12-11-16, 10:50 PM   #129
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Re: CIA: Russia tried to help Trump win the election

I hate it when people use Twitter to write massive blog posts, but this one is worth reading.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Garland
I’m now hearing this meme that says Obama, Clinton, et al. are doing nothing, just gave up.

Guys. It’s time for some game theory.

ACTOR ANALYSIS: The Russians enter the Game with a broad objective, flexible tactics, and several acceptable outcomes.

Russian interests have been, for many years now, the subversion of Western institutions, principally NATO, but any will do.

This subversion can take many forms: driving wedges between US-Commonwealth-Euro intel cooperation, break up NATO, create chaos.

This game has been developing for many years, is asymmetrical, and much cheaper than building a decent aircraft carrier.

Plus, the Russians f**king rule at covert shit. Always have. Ask a cold warrior. Mucho respect for our adversaries. They do clever work!

Post-communism, they're reduced to Drunk Uncle status in the global balance of power. Mouthy, smart, degraded, much reduced in stature.

Russians as *people* are civilized, artistic, enamored of brilliance and tragedy, and generally proud. And should be. They do not like this.

From this position launches an initiative from an old hand at the KGB, now solidified in influence: Subvert for the throat. Go big. Go hard.

While the West is frivolous and lazy and "Post-History," the clever take advantage. And here begins our present story.

Let's skip ahead to "Wikileaks." BRILLIANT. Ingratiate the Left into this anti-establishment distrust of Western intel.

George W Bush and Dick Cheney being slovenly, reckless idiots, the moral authority of Iraq and US intel is nil. In step "journalists."

Stealing hard drives from US intel and dumping them to foreign agents? That's *snicker* "journalism!" FREE SPEECH! ROFLMAO.

Oh, and such grand characters, so well run: Manning, Greenwald. So righteous, yet fragile! And feisty! Try a Twitter war with Glenn!

OH YOU PHILISTINE, YOU JUST HATE JOURNALISM! *sigh* *swigs something strong* And Moscow must have been doubling over.

THEN, OMG, that worked so well that the pièce de résistance was next: SNOWDEN!!! BOOYAH! THE BIG GAME! NSA! PRISM! SPASM!

(incidentally, the NSA was about the only agency the Russians took seriously) But then this EARNEST young man. He tells THE TROOTH!

DID YOU KNOW YOUR TOASTER IS SPYING ON YOU? THE GUBMINT! IT IS EVERYWHERE! THEY SPY ON (*controls snickering*) ALLIES! ALL BAD!

And still hungover from the rotten venality of the Iraq War and Bush's perversion of the IC as reliable, Wikileaks journalisms the NSA!

DON'T YOU CALL IT SOMETHING ELSE. HARD DRIVES FROM THE NSA IZ JOURNALISM! Even when you take the files to Brazil! Honest! Ask Glenn!

And then, automagically, our man Ed ends up...what's this now? In Russia? Well, they are such welcoming folks! How...nice!

Langley and Fort Meade run out of bourbon in about three hours, and every intel guy in Russia is drunk, dancing on the desks, and LAFFING.

AND THE LEFT! HOLY F**KING ADORABLE BATMAN! Honi soit qui mal y pense! How dare you suggest untoward Russian involvement! Journamalisms!!!!

US intel snorts all of the Robotussin in the DC/MD/VA area. Putin calls Snowden "A weird guy." LOLZ.

Moving on to the current chapter.

MEANWHILE, AT THE FOX NATION FORUMS: The other part of this impressive op is percolating - the buttress of the Alt-Right.

ONCE UPON A TIME, Dan Rather chased Nixon around a room asking him questions VERY HARSHLY and the notion of the Evil Media Elite was born.

See, because Nixon got impeached, that meant the media was in on it! WaPo! NYT! Traitors! We look bad! And the media hate begins.

Never mind that to know something in Topeka, somebody's gotta send you a newspaper or a radio signal or whatevs: The Media Is Lying.

Now, it's true, high level journalists and editors don't always see the world like Johnny Lunchpail in Missouri. True facts. But. Trouble.

Republicans decide to create a whole new layer of think tanks and media outlets in the 1980s dedicated to The Other Side.

The think tanks have a POV, but some are quite good, Cato in particular. Heritage came up with what's now Obamacare. AEI...ehhh. 2 outta 3.

But then the media play comes in. The cranky insane tent pastors on AM radio get...a makeover. They become Legitimate. Embraced.

Magnates start investing in outlets. Brand new pundits get huge audiences yelling about The Way Things Ought to Be (for White People).

And it's more successful than free chicken and beer. The money flows, the ratings swell. An Australian starts a TV network in the US.

What develops is an attractive, well-produced alternate universe. You no longer need an alternate take. You have alternate facts.

Al Gore mutters and bores his way out of a presidency in a race against a guy who spoke English like he learned it from Rosetta Stone.

And now, the stage is set for a metastasis of batshit nuttery, jingoism, and irrational autocratic fervor. A party becomes a cult.

September 11, 2001 occurs. A buncha guys are in DC who couldn't wait to go to Iraq. And the right wing media is shiny and tuned-up.

We go kick a bunch of barbarian ass in Afghanistan, as well we should have. They were beating women and destroying Buddhas. F**k 'em.

But then, The Axis of Evil Speech. And all the analysts in DC I know collectively go, "Oh, fuuuuu...they're not serious, are they?"

Bill Clinton spent most of his years pounding the living snot out of Hussein. Dude built anything funny lookin', in came the rockets.

There was one concerning nation-state for most, and - hint - it's in Asia. The other threat was non-state actors. *ahem* Which played out.

And now - *headdesk* - they're going to Iraq. With bullshit intel.

Goddamn it. GODDAMN IT. This is going to suck, said smart people.

And there's the entire right-wing think tank and media machine blaring, careening, gloating. From the gov't itself, and from every outlet.

HOW DARE YOU BE SKEPTICAL? WE HAVE AGENCIES! INTEL! IT'S SECRET! DO YOU WANT MORE PLANES IN YOUR NOSTRILS, UP YOUR BUTTS? BE PATRIOTIC!

And goddamn, did those media outlets sell a lot of ads for trucks, pain killers, pharmaceuticals and financial services. $$$$$$

Many earnest patriots also pointed out, hey, um, there apparently are no weapons that could have blown up Cleveland, so...

But now, this whole thing has morphed into tribalism. YES THEY DID TOO FIND WEAPONS OF MASS DEPRESSION AND YOU SUCK BUSH ROCKS PUSSY

Ann Coulter comes on TV to talk over B-roll of rusty munitions WE SOLD HUSSEIN and said, well look, there they are. Total. Propaganda.

America looks like shit. Our intel services take a helluva beating. Iraq's invasion - which was basically unplanned - results in chaos.

Katrina. Bush. Looking out the window. Confused.

Hey, but in intel news, the National Geospatial-Intel Agency helps critically.

2008. The housing Ponzi we used to get out of the DotComBust-9/11-era recession has now gone pear-shaped. Utterly nuclear.

America's banks, the one thing other than movies and video games we do reliably, all shit the bed simultaneously.

We then elect a cappuccino-colored president whose middle name is Hussein.

The Right goes completely over the f**king cliff into insane.

They start the TEA PARTY! YO REMEMBER BOSTON! PAAAATRIOTS SOMETHING SOMETHING! TEA PARTY! NOTHING MATTERS TAKE IT ALL BACK YAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

This political movement happens when the only thing Obama has really said with conviction is "Fired up! Ready to go!" In late November 2008.

But ON GEORGE WASHINGTON'S GRAVE THIS HAS GONE TOO FAR!!! And the entire right-wing media gets its next several years of revenue LOCKED.

Now, we've got a really, reaaaally fertile field in which former KGB agents can make a long play.

And Moscow gets to work.

America's at this weird nihilistic place, which is one thing for France and Russia, but NOT for earnest midwesterners who are agape.

Now the American Left has got some juice back again. But the Right is just apoplectic from pure suffering.

Both are ripe for subversion.

The Left is out of love with American business and military-industrial, the Right foams at the mouth against legitimate government.

And the guys who have been twisting minds from Vladivostok to Havana and back get to work building an "alt" media structure.

We've already covered the genius of that who Wikileaks op on the Left. SCORE!

Now for the perversion of the formerly nationalist Right.

JESUS TAPDANCING CHRIST THERE'S A BLACK DUDE IN THE WHITE HOUSE! LIVING THERE!

It's not hard to convince Southerners this is insane.

But put a little elbow grease in on some internet forums, and pretty soon you can have Northern John Adams-type conservatives, too.

A whole generation of disaffect Rush Limbaugh fans (WE LISTENED AND DITTOED SO HARD WHY IS THERE A BLACK DUDE THERE?) is ripe for picking.

In addition to alt-finance sites and "Russia Today" a new TV network, they start infiltrating "social media."

Disclosure: Because I'm mouthy all the time like this, RT had me on as a guest. They prop up US "subversives." And they don't edit you!

Fun fact: Al Jazeera and RT just let me talk. US media almost always wants some hand in your final product before booking you. Ironic, no?

But from about 2009 to the 2016 election, a madness is being brewed and slowly poured down the throats of increasingly hysterical Americans.

When you imbibe from this potion, everything is awful and everyone official is lying to you.

Only other members of the cult are with you!

US media, which is complicit in many of our problems, is portrayed for the extremists as conspiratorial liars. All the time.

Formerly sane members of US society start sounding like my schizophrenic grandfather, who said Government was keeping him from His Mission.

Only the Gubmint knew the Archangel Gabriel was sending him to find the next Jesus.

So, cut it out, CIA! Stop it, Giant Conspiracy!

And then people you knew from Functional Daily Life started talking that way. People with car dealerships. Dentists. Regular folk.

They started with CONSPIRACY, especially after 2012, because DAMMIT NO THERE SHOULDN'T BE A BLACK DUDE TWO TERMS NOOOO! NO NO NO NO NO NO

THEY ARE ALL IN ON IT. THE CORPORATIONS. THE MEDIA WHORES. THE GOVERNMENT! (except for my Medicare, don't touch that) ALL OF THEM!

A CABAL CALLED The Pentaveret: The Queen. The Pope. The Gettys. The Rothschilds. AND COLONEL SANDERS, BEFORE HE WENT TITS UP!

If you haven't unfollowed by now, 1. You're nuts and 2. Thank you for indulging my So I Married an Axe Murderer reference.

MOVING ON. The conspiratorial fever at about 108, we begin the 2016 election - AGAINST EVERYTHING HOLY - in 2015.

The Republicans debate over 712 times, discussing topics such as who hated Obamacare more, and who had a large penis.

Jesus, that happened.

The Democrats all debate who's going to get out of Hillary's way first, except for VERMONT'S OWN BERNIE SANDERS, who...gets popular?

I'm from Vermont and have known Bernie forever, so I'm very surprised, but everyone kinda likes it.

Hillary wins anyhow.

And now, the target for electoral mischief is enormous. Hillary is the most known quantity in America, with huge backstory.

Creating a conspiracy narrative around the Clintons is like creating a "southern" narrative around NASCAR and grits.

Now - with Trump as the non-conformist, not-like-all-therotten-conspiratorial-assholes paragon, the Russians go into overdrive.

The Russians didn't create Trump - only New York City and American gullibility could have done that.

But they've got a SWEETHEART outcome.

Trump - a moron - is probably unlikely to take the whole enchilada, but that's perfect. If he gets close enough, he can cry UNFAIR! forever.

Amazing scenario for Russia - instead of RT, they get an institutional nihilist chowderhead with American credentials. They butter him up.

Hell, to hear many tell of it, the have kompromat on him. But anyhow, they invest in his stuff. He was there in 2013. They have a lever.

IF on the off chance, Trump actually (and who could guess this) wins, then...wow, they've got quite an opening.

Either way, on the run-up to Nov 2016, Russian involvement was as subtle as a fart in a spacesuit.

Scroll down my TL for details.

The U.S. IC had its hair on fire. This situation was incredibly dangerous. A paranoid U.S. faction backing a rogue with ties to Russia.

OK, Jesus, at LONG LAST, back to my initial premise. Why didn't Obama and Clinton "do something?"

JESUS, WHAT CAN YOU DO?

You come out and have the CIA enter the goddamn race for Clinton? True or not, we look like some weird cryptofascist state.

Or, you let the Russkis laugh and taunt and infiltrate Facebook with majillions of propaganda tales for idiots? Just let them run around?

Do you come out the day after this totally weird-smelling abomination of an election with all its technical difficulties?

Do you tell America the day after the election that Russia spearfished all of our think tanks in brazen fashion?

Hillary, for her part, gives a brief and all-too-calm speech and goes hiking.

Probably the best move on the board.

Obama WELCOMES! Mr. Trump in an intense, welcoming welcome. To the White House. Mr. Big Winner Guy! Welcome! Fellow American!

Trump looks like he swallowed a goldfish and stares at the floor a bit too long.

As if maybe a joke has gone too far.

In the next month, a small band of propagandists run in a circle and try to look like they're forming a government.

It's ungainly.

And now, it's December 11th. Trump says he don't need no stinkin' intel agencies.

Russia (BWA HAHAHAHAAAA) blames Ukraine! LOLOLOLOLZZZ

A lot of Republicans stare into the middle distance, except for McCain and Graham who are NOT HAVING THIS SHIT. (I salute you, gentlemen.)

And here we are. Americans. Hopefully soon united. This isn't a partisan issue. Obama isn't late to the party. People are doing their jobs.

If you think any of this is easy, you're ignorant and delusional.

Tonight, though, I write to you with great hope.

This may be America's finest hour, as we act together with unshakable resolve to deal with enemies foreign and domestic.

We have done so in the past and come out a stronger, more just, more pluralistic nation.

We will do so now.

And for me? Or die trying.

America is the steward of a genius system entrusted to flawed stewards whose descendants seem to act on the right side of history.

This system is not rotten, not beyond repair, not exiled from the future.

We have been infiltrated by agents who would drive us mad.

This is a nation built on civilization, humanity, and reason, rejecting the febrile superstitions of the past.

It must stand. And will.

We are at present in a place of danger where some of our fellow citizens have forgotten our most cherished values.

We've been here before.

America, reluctantly but dutifully, recognizes its internal contradictions and failings.

Slavery. Racism. Internment. Classism.

The genius documents that gave rise to noble American sentiments were themselves authored by those who failed them. (h/t @ Mr. Jefferson)

We spilled the blood of our brothers to resolve the contradictions of slavery and then abandoned the project while killing Indians.

Americans proclaimed the equality of all men while treating women as chattel and all non-whites as lesser. We are indeed hypocrites.

But to be American is to accept that unflinchingly and to soldier forth for future generations, and DO BETTER, GODDAMN IT.

There are those who would mire us in worldly cynicism, to anchor us in a world where our institutions betray forever, where values perish.

And to be American is to face that intellectual, moral, and spiritual assault with the unshakeable devotion to something more lofty.

And when that loftiness fails, as it so often does, to be American is to seize it again and again, knowing that our Creator desire Progress.

Progress can come from Traditionalists or Labor Unionists or mystics or musicians or doctors or Senators or journalists. All are exhorted.

The Progress demanded by our Creator can be achieved by immigrants and natives, skeptics and believers, the elite and the humble alike.

That is America. That is the promise that Americans oft ignore and which more cynical nations would defile for their own gain.

That America will last long after I have died, long after new people have picked the torch.

Long after we betray it again, as we will.

But America will go on, even if by another name, unless all who have heard her name are extinguished.

This is just the locus of promise.

America came from the olive groves of Italy and the shipyard of Plymouth and the islands of the Philippines. Indivisible.

America came from the Torah and Voltaire's Candide and Adam Smith and zen koans and Greek mathematics and Rumi's poetry.

America is all these things, and should yet another absolutist demagogue, foreign or domestic seize her, it will be far from the end.

Now is a time for patriots.

It's also Sunday afternoon. I'm gonna get a beer and watch football.

God Bless America, and all nations.

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Old 12-11-16, 11:16 PM   #130
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Re: CIA: Russia tried to help Trump win the election

Jesus God, Eric Garland! Get a facebook account or livejournal or something.
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Old 12-11-16, 11:26 PM   #131
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Re: CIA: Russia tried to help Trump win the election

Highly agreed, Josh. Why would you use Twitter to post something as lengthy as that?
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Old 12-11-16, 11:36 PM   #132
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Re: CIA: Russia tried to help Trump win the election

tl;dr
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Old 12-11-16, 11:44 PM   #133
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Re: CIA: Russia tried to help Trump win the election

All I got out of that was
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Old 12-12-16, 01:59 AM   #134
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Re: CIA: Russia tried to help Trump win the election

And I thought creekdipper was unreadable.
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"[It is an] absurd notion that Hillary is more legitimate because she won a game that neither candidate was playing. Both sides campaigned, strategized, and spent money to win not a popular-vote plurality but 270 electoral votes...

"We don’t know who would have won the 2016... presidential race if the president was elected by popular vote because the race would have been run completely differently."

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Old 12-12-16, 02:49 AM   #135
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Re: CIA: Russia tried to help Trump win the election

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
I hate it when people use Twitter to write massive blog posts, but this one is worth reading.
Thanks for sharing that. I'm about 1/3 of the way through it, and although it's easy to be critical of the past situation in hindsight, and it's a little over simplified at times, so far it seems like a strong analysis and factoring of events that have led up this point.

Regarding the NSA/Snowden/Media I remember taking part in the discussion of it here, and dork brought up good points at the time that seem in sync with this perspective of Eric Garland.
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Old 12-12-16, 03:01 AM   #136
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Re: CIA: Russia tried to help Trump win the election

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
I hate it when people use Twitter to write massive blog posts, but this one is worth reading.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Garland ...
So this is what happens when you realize you won't get that Supreme Court confirmation.
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"[It is an] absurd notion that Hillary is more legitimate because she won a game that neither candidate was playing. Both sides campaigned, strategized, and spent money to win not a popular-vote plurality but 270 electoral votes...

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Old 12-12-16, 07:38 AM   #137
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Re: CIA: Russia tried to help Trump win the election

Russia ...

The 1980s are calling and they want their foreign policy back
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Old 12-12-16, 09:25 AM   #138
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Re: CIA: Russia tried to help Trump win the election

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Russia ...

The 1980s are calling and they want their foreign policy back
Gordon Gekko is our new president. And lots of my playlist right now has 80's revival music (your Miami Horror and whatnot).

They're back baby!
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Old 12-12-16, 09:27 AM   #139
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Re: CIA: Russia tried to help Trump win the election

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Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
Yeah, 'cud, it makes so much sense Trump was involved with Putin in destroying Hillary (as if we NEEDED HELP ) but yet all the reports are going to be kept from the public so they can't do any logical correlations themselves.
Who said anything about Trump being involved? Those are not the only two possible conclusions...
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Old 12-12-16, 10:01 AM   #140
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Re: CIA: Russia tried to help Trump win the election

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy Stiffler View Post
Gordon Gekko is our new president. And lots of my playlist right now has 80's revival music (your Miami Horror and whatnot).

They're back baby!
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Old 12-12-16, 10:12 AM   #141
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Re: CIA: Russia tried to help Trump win the election

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Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
For even an initial finding of evidence, I'd want to see IP logs over the last 72 hours. Why wouldn't those IP logs be shown to the American public, to prove this was even Russian-initiated. Second, we would still have to connect the Russian government to the hacks. And third, we'd have to find out if anyone influenced Russia...to influence the hackers...to influence the databases.
You don't want the Obama administration to conduct an investigation but you think they should show all the evidence they have to you instead?

What the fuck do you know about any of this?
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Old 12-12-16, 10:55 AM   #142
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Re: CIA: Russia tried to help Trump win the election

Top GOP leader: Senate to probe reports of Russia hacking
Ken Thomas, Associated Press,Associated Press 19 minutes ago



NEW YORK (AP) -- The top Senate Republican said Monday that Congress will investigate a CIA assessment that Russia interfered in the November election on behalf of Donald Trump, an intelligence conclusion that the incoming commander in chief has called "ridiculous."

Majority Leader Mitch McConnell told reporters that an inquiry would be conducted by the Senate intelligence panel. Two key Senate Republicans — John McCain of Arizona and Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, a leading Trump critic — have joined with two Democrats in seeking a bipartisan investigation into the Kremlin's activities during the election.

"Obviously any foreign breach of our cybersecurity measures is disturbing, and I strongly condemn any such efforts," McConnell said.

Unlike Trump, who has expressed admiration for Russian leader Vladimir Putin, McConnell said flatly, "The Russians are not our friends."
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Old 12-12-16, 11:06 AM   #143
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Re: CIA: Russia tried to help Trump win the election

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Originally Posted by Draven View Post
You don't want the Obama administration to conduct an investigation but you think they should show all the evidence they have to you instead?

What the fuck do you know about any of this?
I'm glad I'm not the only person that got a good laugh out of this request.
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Old 12-12-16, 11:26 AM   #144
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Re: CIA: Russia tried to help Trump win the election

It's the political equivalent of 9/11!
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Old 12-12-16, 11:28 AM   #145
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Re: CIA: Russia tried to help Trump win the election

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You don't want the Obama administration to conduct an investigation but you think they should show all the evidence they have to you instead?

What the fuck do you know about any of this?
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Old 12-12-16, 11:30 AM   #146
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Re: CIA: Russia tried to help Trump win the election

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/poli...icle-1.2906151

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Harry Reid claims FBI covered up how Russia helped Donald Trump win election, demands director James Comey resign


Oh shit, this is just too much.

Now Harry Reid is a funny guy, too.

By the time were done with this, half the politicians will be aiding Russia and the other half will be just insane and fucking retarded.
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Old 12-12-16, 11:41 AM   #147
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Re: CIA: Russia tried to help Trump win the election

And now electors are demanding an intelligence briefing before the Electoral College meets. I'm afraid our government just past a tipping point -- whether Trump becomes President, gets blocked, or is immediately impeached, the legitimacy of the government is going to be wrecked. We're at a point where we may literally have to choose between a foreign power interfering in our election and the CIA overturning the results.

We're living through A Very British Coup and rooting for the Secret State to win.
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Old 12-12-16, 11:42 AM   #148
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Re: CIA: Russia tried to help Trump win the election

Stop feeding the troll guys. DP's diseased ramblings bear no connection to reality.
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Old 12-12-16, 11:43 AM   #149
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Re: CIA: Russia tried to help Trump win the election

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Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post

For even an initial finding of evidence, I'd want to see IP logs over the last 72 hours. Why wouldn't those IP logs be shown to the American public, to prove this was even Russian-initiated. Second, we would still have to connect the Russian government to the hacks. And third, we'd have to find out if anyone influenced Russia...to influence the hackers...to influence the databases.
I know you think you know a lot about, I dunno, everything, like Trump, but geez. You obviously don't know anything about this topic.

Russians aren't going to use Russian IPs to attack any more than the Chinese do.

I can tell you this from personal experience as a cyber security guy - the IPs where data exfil went, CnC servers, etc - all some dude's PC on a Comcast IP in Vermont or something. Or (I saw this recently also) a Boy Scout troop's site for selling popcorn that has been owned and is being used as an intermediary.

If you're an APT group after government data, you probably take a bunch more hops. Etc.

It's much harder / time consuming to clear out other evidence. Russian timezones, Russian characters in compiled code, Russian language structure. This is the kind of thing that forensics folks / intel folks look at when working on attribution.

You sound like a guy saying "If he committed the murder, there should be fingerprints all over". When the #1 step you take is putting on gloves.
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Old 12-12-16, 11:45 AM   #150
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Re: CIA: Russia tried to help Trump win the election

Just because you win the electoral vote, it doesn't mean that the electoral voters will vote for you...

Electors demand intelligence briefing before Electoral College vote

If there's enough shade there (and it's looking more an more like there is), he can lose more than just a couple of actual electoral votes.
Thing is, I doubt he won't get sworn in. Because if they kick Trump out now, it goes to Hillary. If they wait to impeach him after he's sworn in, then they get Pence.

*edit - jinx, Sean O'Hara!
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