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Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

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Old 11-19-16, 08:34 PM   #26
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Re: Attacks on Minorities in Trump's America

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Originally Posted by mspmms View Post
I think we will have to wait until some gets past their butt hurt of Trump being president. It may not happen.
It never does for many people. Conservatives never got over Obama. Liberals never got over Bush II or Reagan. I don't remember much upset over Bush I or Clinton (well, until Clinton's scandal).

You could say that Conservatives are STILL upset over Carter. Liberals are STILL upset over Nixon, Reagan, and Bush II.

What did Bush I and Clinton do that everyone doesn't?
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Old 11-19-16, 08:56 PM   #27
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Re: Attacks on Minorities in Trump's America

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Originally Posted by Troy Stiffler View Post
It never does for many people. Conservatives never got over Obama. Liberals never got over Bush II or Reagan. I don't remember much upset over Bush I or Clinton (well, until Clinton's scandal.


Someone as upset about the Clinton administration.
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Old 11-19-16, 09:16 PM   #28
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Re: Attacks on Minorities in Trump's America

Well, I was talking about people's general attitude. There's always going to be nutjobs out there. There's not a lot of post-presidency hatred floating around out there toward Bill Clinton or George HW Bush. Everyone else gets gets digs at every turn. I'm talking pop culture. It seems to stop with Nixon. I don't know history well enough to say if there's a reason for that.
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Old 11-19-16, 10:08 PM   #29
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Re: Attacks on Minorities in Trump's America

And there will not be a lot of post-prez hatred when Obama leaves office. The controversy comes when you get BACK into the spotlight, and start being divisive...as Obama has historically been.

If Obama wants to stay in the spotlight and be a shadow of a failed government, bringing the chances of Democrats to winning a 2020 election virtually ZERO...then he is more than privileged to do just that. However, if he does, he also deserves to be criticized.

If Democrats don't get over this election and whine and make this a campaign of whining and post-election sore losing crybabies who can't take it like the adults they are supposed to be...they will not be helping themselves.
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Old 11-19-16, 10:38 PM   #30
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Re: Attacks on Minorities in Trump's America

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Originally Posted by Troy Stiffler View Post
It never does for many people. Conservatives never got over Obama. Liberals never got over Bush II or Reagan. I don't remember much upset over Bush I or Clinton (well, until Clinton's scandal).

You could say that Conservatives are STILL upset over Carter. Liberals are STILL upset over Nixon, Reagan, and Bush II.

What did Bush I and Clinton do that everyone doesn't?
There's a lot of different factors that might explain it.

Bush I only served one term. He led a successful military effort in getting Saddam out of Kuwait, but during his time the economy took a down turn and he had to raise taxes. Those two things may balance each other out so the general public ends up being indifferent to him.


Bill Clinton was a successful two-term Democratic president, but he managed that by using a triangulation strategy. From wikipedia:

Quote:
It involves adopting for oneself some of the ideas of one's political opponent. The logic behind it is that it both takes credit for the opponent's ideas, and insulates the triangulator from attacks on that particular issue.
So he ran as a Democrat, but he ended up adopting Republican policies and taking credit for them, like cutting welfare. Republicans didn't like him, but they couldn't always be mad at him when he was passing bills they agreed with. Also, the economy was doing great during that time.

During Bush I and Clinton the internet wasn't as ubiquitous as it is now. It seems that during W and Obama's time, virtually everyone had a strong opinion on politics, and the interactive nature of the internet helped cultivate that opinion. Anyone with internet access can turn something viral. So something like Obama's birth certificate gets a lot of mileage in the Facebook age. Films like Fahrenheit t 9/11 were a new thing as well. Whereas the Vince Foster conspiracy was spread through video through Rev. Jerry Falwell connections, Michael Moore's film brought the W conspiracy mainstream.

But what about Reagan and Carter? Reagan had Iran-Contra which was a big scandal at the time, as well as his administration ignoring the AIDS epidemic.

Carter had the economy take a nose dive during his watch, as well as having the Iran hostage crisis hanging over his head.
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Old 11-19-16, 11:15 PM   #31
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Re: Attacks on Minorities in Trump's America

Minority beaten and sent to hospital
(Trump supporter)

15-year-old boy wearing one of the Trump campaign’s “Make America Great Again” hats was attacked by about four students.
The group surrounded the teen, punching him repeatedly, then threw him to the ground and kicked him repeatedly in the ribs.




Children technically "minorities" by definition?

31 posts and so far I don't think this thread is going the way Sean O'Hara intended.
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Old 11-20-16, 05:57 AM   #32
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Re: Attacks on Minorities in Trump's America

Look, let's assume the best about everyone here & say that all would denounce any attacks upon other people, whether taunting, bullying, physical assaults, vandalism, or whatever.

Putting nooses around necks is deplorable, and saying that kids can be cruel in many ways (which is true) doesn't excuse it. Posting threatening messages & symbols is deplorable. And we all denounce that.

It does seem divisive to have a thread devoted to "attacks upon minorities...etc." while not acknowledging the attacks upon Trump supporters (which the national media seems to have largely ignored)

Some other examples of those attacks (all can be corroborated by Googling "Attacks Upon Trump supporters"...most have video attached showing the incidents):

1. A high school girl viciously assaulted for posting a pro-Trump message on Facebook.

2. An elementary student sent to emergency room after being attacked by classmate for voting for Trump in mock election.

3. A high school student attacked for holding a Trump sign (attacker tore up the principal's office vowing to "punch that white boy when I see him again." Attacker charged with assault; victim sent to hospital.

4. A pregnant woman's surrounded by Portland protesters who smashed her windshield with baseball bat & refused to let her leave. Captured by local news team; reporter sounds very alarmed ("This isn't good...oh, this isn't good") while describing the terrified woman "with tears streaming down her face." He also says he witnessed someone jumping in front of her car and disputes the reports from some crowd members that the driver "tried to run over a child."

Those and other incidents are fairly easy to find, and it would seem that if Trump is being held responsible for negative actions against minorities, then Democrats should be held accountable for these physical assaults upon citizens.

Rather than a tit-for-tat keeping score & blaming others, it might be more beneficial if Trump & Obama would hold a joint news conference or address to the nation backed by leaders of both parties to denounce the violent acts of all and pledge to prosecute those committing such crimes to the full extent of the law.


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Old 11-20-16, 07:10 AM   #33
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Re: Attacks on Minorities in Trump's America

^ Yeah, twenty or fewer attacks on Trump supporters and over 700 on minorities, but let's not keep score.

And yes, let's blame Obama just as much as Trump for not speaking out about it more. Good grief.
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Old 11-20-16, 07:36 AM   #34
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Re: Attacks on Minorities in Trump's America

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Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
^ Yeah, twenty or fewer attacks on Trump supporters and over 700 on minorities, but let's not keep score.

And yes, let's blame Obama just as much as Trump for not speaking out about it more. Good grief.
Citation?

If you are relying upon the "report" of the Southern Poverty Law Center, how do they count "attacks" (other than tips). Do they run down these tips to verify them? When they count "Make America White Again" as an attack, do they give that equal weight to a physical assault? Do they remove debunked reports from their count (and their website)?

Who else is reporting this "700" figure? Why aren't we seeing video evidence the way we are seeing actual video of angry individuals perpetrating violence toward Trump supporters?

How many high-schoolers have been beaten for supporting Clinton? Where are the reports of these 700 physical assaults upon Clinton supporters since the election?

If these "attacks" are credible, what is the nature of them & why haven't we heard more about them?





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Old 11-20-16, 07:40 AM   #35
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Re: Attacks on Minorities in Trump's America

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Reagan had Iran-Contra which was a big scandal at the time, as well as his administration ignoring the AIDS epidemic.
His administration was also one of the most corrupt in the history of the US Presidency : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reagan...ation_scandals
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Old 11-20-16, 11:37 AM   #36
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Re: Attacks on Minorities in Trump's America

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Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
^ Yeah, twenty or fewer attacks on Trump supporters and over 700 on minorities, but let's not keep score.

And yes, let's blame Obama just as much as Trump for not speaking out about it more. Good grief.
https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/...now-number-701

Quote:
The SPLC collected reports from news articles, social media, and direct submissions from the #ReportHate intake page. The SPLC made efforts to verify each report but many included in the count remain anecdotal.
In other words, these cases were NOT verified, and if somebody just calls in or even emails and says, "I was harassed by a white dude!!!!'' It's recorded as fact.

And social media? Oh yeah, social media is a GREAT place to get the facts.

Additionally, the SLPC, which was a rather respectable reporting agency...is now relying on OTHER SOURCES to add to their numbers of alleged "hateful harassment" claims.

Once again, the anti-Trump Thumping Rabid Rabbits creating the atmosphere of hate to further their agendas.

Not only is this wrong, unethical, but gives a false impression to people that they are under attack when they are not.

Many reports of hate crimes have already been debunked but are largely going unnoticed by the same news organizations that reported them. A quick blot of the "update" and they move on to another bogus story.

This is why you have violence in the streets. Because of organizations creating the fear.

What's also interesting, is I don't see how many attacks have been on white people since the election (which is where SLPC gets their 700 attacks number). Nothing. Can somebody point me to the SLPC's website where they have kept track of these harassment claims and attacks as well? Because how can you be a fair organization if you only record harassment on groups you only pick and choose? Doesn't that represent a false image?
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Old 11-21-16, 09:21 AM   #37
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Re: Attacks on Minorities in Trump's America

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Those and other incidents are fairly easy to find, and it would seem that if Trump is being held responsible for negative actions against minorities, then Democrats should be held accountable for these physical assaults upon citizens.
I know you don’t approve of Trump, so I’m not sure why you’d make such an apples to oranges comparison. First, surely you can see a distinction between attacks on minorities in general and attacks on people visibly or vocally supporting Trump. Obviously both have no place in our society, but they’re very different animals. Imagine a demagogue who’d tiptoed around advocating violence against Christians and given winks at groups literally violently opposed to Christians. If there was a spike in physical and verbal violence against Christians, coupled with an exponentially smaller spike against supporters of said demagogue, would each equally concern you?

Beyond that, even if we were to accept that these are equally problematic in every way despite the difference in scope, why in the world would Democrats be held responsible? Trump has taken actions that can be reasonably viewed as empowering white supremacists. Even if you (or the board’s merry band of Trumpets) dispute that he ever actually did anything that should be construed that way, it’s very clear that many white supremacists themselves have interpreted his statements as supporting their beliefs and he’s failed to disabuse them of this notion. In short, there’s a reason he’s being held responsible.

By contrast, as far as I know, no one in Democratic senior leadership has tiptoed around supporting violence against Trump supporters or racists in general. From the info you posted, as well as the other anti-Trump-supporter incidents I’ve heard about, there’s no detail on whether the perpetrators were democrats, independents, republicans or non-voting, apolitical people who are just pissed off about their president elect being a worthless human being. Going back to the previous hypothetical, in that situation, I can’t imagine you’d stand for being told Christians as a whole were responsible for the people who verbally or physically abused those supporting the anti-Christian demagogue.
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Old 11-21-16, 12:02 PM   #38
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Re: Attacks on Minorities in Trump's America

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By contrast, as far as I know, no one in Democratic senior leadership has tiptoed around supporting violence against Trump supporters or racists in general. From the info you posted, as well as the other anti-Trump-supporter incidents I’ve heard about, there’s no detail on whether the perpetrators were democrats, independents, republicans or non-voting, apolitical people who are just pissed off about their president elect being a worthless human being. Going back to the previous hypothetical, in that situation, I can’t imagine you’d stand for being told Christians as a whole were responsible for the people who verbally or physically abused those supporting the anti-Christian demagogue.
Who, in the Republican Party, has condoned violence against others?

And it appears as if you are the one tip-toeing around violence against a President Elect.

You say:

Quote:
there’s no detail on whether the perpetrators were democrats, independents, republicans or non-voting, apolitical people who are just pissed off about their president elect being a worthless human being.
Seems to me, you already have resentment and escalated bias towards Trump already, and we're to assume you're not going to give violent protesters a pass?

These are non-voting apolitical protesters? That makes absolutely no sense. You cannot be a-political and not be a protester. But it does appear many are non-voters who just don't like ANY TYPE OF AUTHORITY.

Also, are you saying Republicans are just as likely protesting in the streets, beating up other Republican voters, smashing windows, shitting on police cars, carrying NotMyPresident signs?


Seems like you already have from your statements above. You feign ignorance, saying "Well, it could be ANYBODY in those streets protesting! We just don't know who it could be..."

You know my prediction for 2017?

I predict we will have MORE domestic violence from Americans, who are not even Islamic Terrorists, against government officials. Islamic Terrorism will probably go DOWN in 2017 when it comes US attacks, but the kinds of thugs and criminals and swamplife we see roaming the streets today...are going to be part of others who are determined to take down the US Government because they've had it rather good the last 8 years without paying the consequences for their crimes.

In my mind, they are no different than any other terrorist. They want to destabilize America, and this must be stopped in its tracks.

Since Obama is just going to let cities run rampant without any mention of violence (unless it's Trump's Fault, of course), people have a few months to trash this country without any consequences.

But after that, they will not have a President who will condone and pardon such actions.

The only people afraid...should be the criminals in the streets. And that's why so many who voted Democrat in 2012...voted Republican in 2016. Because they knew something had to change when it came to being responsible for criminal behavior, and giving this behavior a pass...was undermining American culture.
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Old 11-21-16, 01:39 PM   #39
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Re: Attacks on Minorities in Trump's America

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Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
Who, in the Republican Party, has condoned violence against others?

And it appears as if you are the one tip-toeing around violence against a President Elect.

You say:

Seems to me, you already have resentment and escalated bias towards Trump already, and we're to assume you're not going to give violent protesters a pass?

These are non-voting apolitical protesters? That makes absolutely no sense. You cannot be a-political and not be a protester. But it does appear many are non-voters who just don't like ANY TYPE OF AUTHORITY.

Also, are you saying Republicans are just as likely protesting in the streets, beating up other Republican voters, smashing windows, shitting on police cars, carrying NotMyPresident signs?


Seems like you already have from your statements above. You feign ignorance, saying "Well, it could be ANYBODY in those streets protesting! We just don't know who it could be..."

You know my prediction for 2017?

I predict we will have MORE domestic violence from Americans, who are not even Islamic Terrorists, against government officials. Islamic Terrorism will probably go DOWN in 2017 when it comes US attacks, but the kinds of thugs and criminals and swamplife we see roaming the streets today...are going to be part of others who are determined to take down the US Government because they've had it rather good the last 8 years without paying the consequences for their crimes.

In my mind, they are no different than any other terrorist. They want to destabilize America, and this must be stopped in its tracks.

Since Obama is just going to let cities run rampant without any mention of violence (unless it's Trump's Fault, of course), people have a few months to trash this country without any consequences.

But after that, they will not have a President who will condone and pardon such actions.

The only people afraid...should be the criminals in the streets. And that's why so many who voted Democrat in 2012...voted Republican in 2016. Because they knew something had to change when it came to being responsible for criminal behavior, and giving this behavior a pass...was undermining American culture.
Your first question is addressed in the part of my post you didn’t quote.

And no, regardless of however your mind works, I wasn’t tiptoeing around violence against anyone. I can believe someone is a complete piece of shit without believing violence should be perpetrated against them. You’re correct in that I resent Trump and harbor an informed bias against him.

Someone certainly can be apolitical in that they remove themselves from the political process by failing to register or vote, yet they still have the freedom to protest the ruler in charge. I believe you were the one mocking protestors who weren’t registered to vote, but it might have been someone else. Either way, if someone’s not registered to vote, they’re not a democrat, no matter how much you’d like to label them as such.

Lastly, Obama received 65,915,795 votes in 2012. Trump received 61,201,031 votes in 2016. Given that he received nearly 5 million less votes, what makes you think Trump converted a large portion of people who voted for Obama?
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Old 11-21-16, 02:31 PM   #40
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Re: Attacks on Minorities in Trump's America

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Who, in the Republican Party, has condoned violence against others?

The President-elect.

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Old 11-21-16, 02:34 PM   #41
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Re: Attacks on Minorities in Trump's America

I wonder which airport will be named after Trump. How does that work? Anyone know?
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Old 11-21-16, 02:39 PM   #42
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Re: Attacks on Minorities in Trump's America

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I wonder which airport will be named after Trump. How does that work? Anyone know?
They should name the Naval Air Station at Lakehurst after him.
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Old 11-21-16, 02:55 PM   #43
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Re: Attacks on Minorities in Trump's America

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Originally Posted by Why So Blu? View Post
The President-elect.

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Old 11-21-16, 11:29 PM   #44
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Re: Attacks on Minorities in Trump's America

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His administration was also one of the most corrupt in the history of the US Presidency : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reagan...ation_scandals
Dayum. I didn't know that he had that many scandals under his belt. It's funny because, I remember seeing magazines like this with articles titled "How the Right went wrong," as well as this issue that had an accompanying image of a giant Reagan and a de-evolution of Republican's descending from him, getting smaller and smaller, with George W. Bush being the last and smallest. Pretty much implying that Reagan was alright, but these guys...they're awful.

Reagan had Iran-Contra, was painting pictures of stereotypes like the "welfare queen", ramping up the arms race, stuff like that, but somehow modern Republicans are such a departure from his type???
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Old 11-22-16, 08:47 AM   #45
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Re: Attacks on Minorities in Trump's America

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Originally Posted by brayzie View Post
Reagan had Iran-Contra, was painting pictures of stereotypes like the "welfare queen", ramping up the arms race, stuff like that, but somehow modern Republicans are such a departure from his type???
Ronald Reagan's presidency is way overrated. Tripled the debt, supported Apartheid, increased spending by over 80% and the list goes on. He was also a closet racist. But people hold on to the whole ending the cold war thing (Mikhail Gorbachev deserves the credit for that) the same way they do with Giuliani and 9/11.
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Last edited by inri222; 11-22-16 at 08:53 AM.
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Old 11-22-16, 09:36 AM   #46
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Re: Attacks on Minorities in Trump's America

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Originally Posted by Troy Stiffler View Post
I wonder which airport will be named after Trump. How does that work? Anyone know?
I'll just point out that Congress changed the name of National Airport in DC to Reagan National almost two decades ago, but most people in the Washington area still call it National. If you hear someone say, "Reagan Airport," odds are they're Republicans.

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Ronald Reagan's presidency is way overrated. Tripled the debt, supported Apartheid, increased spending by over 80% and the list goes on. He was also a closet racist. But people hold on to the whole ending the cold war thing (Mikhail Gorbachev deserves the credit for that) the same way they do with Giuliani and 9/11.
The ironic part is, the one thing Reagan did that actually contributed to the end of the Cold War was backing off the harsh rhetoric he's known for. He was much more conciliatory towards the Soviets during his second term, which gave Gorbachev the breathing room necessary to implement perestroika and glasnost.
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Old 11-23-16, 08:49 AM   #47
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Re: Attacks on Minorities in Trump's America

Are you guys still talking about airports and Reagan?

Harassing, Threatening and Hateful Trump notes - Fabricated

Taylor Volk, said on Nov. 14 she had received emails and notes taped to her door containing harassing, threatening language and mentions of President-elect Donald Trump. She had also posted pictures of notes with homophobic slurs to her Facebook account.



The woman who claimed they were aimed toward her is no longer enrolled at the school.
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Old 11-23-16, 09:05 AM   #48
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Re: Attacks on Minorities in Trump's America

Good thing they hashtagged it!
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Old 11-23-16, 12:27 PM   #49
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Re: Attacks on Minorities in Trump's America

No direct Trump connection here beyond the fact that it happened in the state with the second highest percentage of Trump voters.

Quote:
The 62-year-old man accused of shooting and killing an unarmed teenager on Charleston’s East End Monday night was not allowed to have a gun, because of a previous domestic violence

William Ronald Pulliam allegedly shot 15-year-old James Harvey Means twice in the abdomen with a .380 caliber revolver.

Police said Pulliam showed no remorse after his arrest. He admitted shooting Means and said, “The way I look at it, that’s another piece of trash off the street,” according to a criminal complaint filed in Kanawha County Magistrate Court.

After the shooting, Pulliam went to dinner and then to a female friend’s home, according to the complaint, written by Charleston Police Detective C.C. Lioi. Police found the gun allegedly used to kill James Means at the friend’s home.

Charleston police asked federal authorities to determine if the killing meets the definition of a hate crime. Pulliam is white and Means was black.

The teenager was shot after a confrontation with Pulliam outside the Dollar General store at the corner of Washington and Nancy streets around 8:45 p.m. Monday.

Witnesses saw and heard Pulliam and Means exchange words after the two physically bumped into each other on the sidewalk near Dollar General, according to the complaint. After the argument, Pulliam entered the store, while Means joined friends on the porch at the nearby home of a companion’s grandmother.

After Pulliam emerged from the store and walked past the porch where Means and his friends had gathered, the two argued again, and after Means crossed Washington Street East to approach the man, Pulliam shot Means twice, according to the complaint. The teen died shortly after arrival at Charleston Area Medical Center General Hospital.

One of the witnesses to the shooting was 13-year-old James Cooper, who told the Gazette-Mail on Tuesday morning that he saw Pulliam kill his friend. He said he, James Means and another friend were sitting together just before the shooting. After the shooting, James Cooper said, he hopped a chain-link fence next to the house where the three were sitting.

On Tuesday morning, he showed another friend, Teonno White, 14, where the shooting happened, in front of a few brick houses on Washington Street East just before the intersection with Nancy Street.

White said he’s had run-ins with Pulliam in the past, when Pulliam would “pick on” his younger brother.

“One time I went over there to talk to him about it, I said, ‘You’ve got to quit picking on my little brother, that doesn’t look right,’” White said.

“He said, ‘Get the [expletive] off my property.’ He said I need to go on with my nappy Latino self. He’s just a real bad guy.”

White said he’s called the police about Pulliam before, and was told to avoid the man.

Caleb Burgess was working at the Dollar General when officers responded Monday night. He saw at least six police cars pull into the store’s parking lot.

“Someone told [the police] the guy came in here after the shooting, but he actually came in here before,” Burgess said.

He said police initially forced Burgess and another employee to the ground, guns pointed, until they confirmed the store was empty.

“After that, we pretty much were helping the cops with our camera systems for an hour or so,” Burgess said.

Lt. Steve Cooper, chief of detectives for the Charleston Police Department, said Pulliam was arrested near the scene of the shooting at about 10 p.m. Monday, slightly more than one hour after the event.

Pulliam was arraigned on the murder charge Tuesday morning via video from South Central Regional Jail before Kanawha County Magistrate Ward Harshbarger.

He appeared stoic as he acknowledged that he could face life in prison if convicted, and that he could have a lawyer appointed by the court represent him.

But he seemed startled by the idea that he would have to remain in jail for now, after Harshbarger told him that any possibility of him being released on bond wouldn’t come before his preliminary hearing on Dec. 1.

“Don’t I get to say anything?” Pulliam asked. The magistrate advised him against doing so before speaking with an attorney.

“I’ll lose my job and everything unless I can get out of here,” Pulliam said.

“I’m going to have to go on a hunger strike,” he muttered, as he was escorted out of the video conference room by a correctional officer.

Pulliam pleaded no contest in 2013 to a charge of domestic battery, which bars him from legally possessing a gun.

According to another criminal complaint in Kanawha Magistrate Court, Pulliam struck his pregnant daughter in the face several times with a closed fist and kicked her in the stomach. He also shoved his wife to the ground during that incident, according to the complaint.

Pulliam’s daughter had visible bruising to her left eye and was bleeding from her lip, Charleston Police Cpl. P.S. Kapeluck wrote in the January 2013 complaint, and Pulliam’s wife was bleeding from her elbow.

Prosecutors dropped one count of domestic battery, and Pulliam pleaded no contest to the other. He was sentenced to 36 days in jail, but Kanawha Family Judge Mike Kelly, who retired in 2014, suspended that sentence. The judge placed Pulliam on a year’s probation and gave him credit for six days he had already spent in jail.

According to Charleston police, the FBI is looking into the shooting, apparently to determine whether its meets the criteria for investigation as a hate crime.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Steve Ruby confirmed Tuesday afternoon that federal authorities have been asked to review whether the shooting falls within the federal hate crimes statute.

“That review is in its early stages, and the fact that a review is being conducted should not be taken as any indication of what the review’s outcome will be,” Ruby said. The hate crimes statute “establishes a maximum sentence of life imprisonment for willfully using a firearm to kill another person because of the victim’s actual or perceived race, color, religion or national origin.”
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Old 11-23-16, 12:36 PM   #50
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Re: Attacks on Minorities in Trump's America

More upset about losing his job than the life he just took, this guy is a piece of work.
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