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Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

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Old 05-03-17, 06:22 AM   #2501
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Re: The Random Political Memes Thread

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Old 05-03-17, 07:15 AM   #2502
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Re: The Random Political Memes Thread

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Originally Posted by dino88 View Post
^What's their stance on pickles between the buns?
Not clear - haven't seen it but there is a movie that may help with your question:

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Old 05-03-17, 08:11 AM   #2503
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Re: The Random Political Memes Thread

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Old 05-03-17, 08:15 AM   #2504
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Re: The Random Political Memes Thread

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Old 05-03-17, 08:19 AM   #2505
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Re: The Random Political Memes Thread

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Old 05-03-17, 05:47 PM   #2506
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Re: The Random Political Memes Thread

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Old 05-03-17, 06:11 PM   #2507
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Re: The Random Political Memes Thread

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Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
I myself have argued in the past that the cartoon and memes threads should be "commentary-free," but it seems that others don't agree. Therefore, if you can't beat them....
I disagree. I believe one should comment freely on the captioned pictures(), but not indulge in a tangential, continuing dialectic such as the one we're having. I think this will be my last response, so I will try to wrap things up.
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You mention my anecdotal evidence, but you are relying upon your own anecdotal evidence which doesn't exactly support the allegation that it is "common" to hear Christians maintaining that atheists "have no morals." Because that was what was being alleged (and, if you look at recent memes posted above, continues to be alleged). It's a straw man argument (and your integrity compelled you to acknowledge that you have a hard time coming up with specifics other than some past incident and one lady who repeatedly proselytized her religion...which still isn't an example of the straw man being held up for attack.
I'll accept that, OK? Other than my own encounters with overbearing religious people, which are admittedly few, I am, to be forthright, basing my derision on "what I have heard and read", which is of much less value than firsthand experience.
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You brought up the idea that nontheists are guided by their "conscience." Where was there ever any disagreement about that? Secular psychologists will affirm the belief that humans learn behavior in a variety of ways including role modeling. While one can reject or accept values being taught or modeled, the influences of the environment are there. One might as easily maintain that humans learn to speak independently of other humans as to maintain that humans form their values in a vacuum. That's what you are acknowledging when you say that humans rely upon influences including other people, experiences, and individual personality.
Complete agreement.
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Again, the question is not whether non-theists can have a personal credo but the source of those standards. When you say that you rely upon your conscience, that simply puts you on the same plane as theists who rely upon their consciences.
And I would submit that the "consciences" of many people of religion, especially the more devoted and orthodox and immersed (viz. blinkered), are simply facsimiles of the dogma in their religious texts. That's not necessarily a bad thing, except where it precludes their critical thinking and engenders intolerance toward others.
Nontheists can just as easily be intolerant jerks, but the point is that they aren't dominated by groupthink strictures that dissuade freedom of thought. That is probably what most of us non-believers (if I may speak for a whole group) find most objectionable about religions and those who follow them.
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The implication you seem to be making is that atheists freely follow their own consciences (although you acknowledge that those consciences have been shaped by a variety of factors and outside influences) but that theists (let's quit pretending and just use the actual term we all know we mean...Christians) just blindly follow their influences either through compulsion, promise of reward or punishment, or in opposition to what they really think and feel.
Yes, largely, though I do not single out Christians (why Christians feel they, specifically, are the sole subjects of criticism when religion is discussed, I am not sure of, though I will concede that there is a good amount of tiptoeing around criticism of Muslims by the secular left, of which I am a member). Also, there's a big difference between someone who is simply arbitrarily not religious and those who identify as atheists or agnostics (or nontheists, non-believers, however one chooses to term it). The latter group of people have deliberated on the question and made a decision, and are variously vehement on the matter, whereas the former may have never been exposed to religion or moral guidance of any sort due to derelict or absent parenting. That person is not necessarily prone to bad conduct, but he may be more liable to engage in antisocial acts due to the lack of an imbued moral compass during childhood. Conversely, good parenting and/or religious instruction do not guarantee the creation of a well-behaved, moral adult. A fraction of the population is conscienceless, suffering from a dearth of empathy, and it seems (though I'm no psychologist) to be independent of proper or improper rearing.
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It doesn't seem to occur to critics of Christians that those same Christians actually believe the tenets of their faith and do "moral" things willingly with little thought of punishment or reward as motivation.
I'm sure that is often true, but not always.
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And it would be extremely disingenuous to claim the secular version of the "noble savage" argument re: atheists; that is, that atheists never consider "punishment" (disappointing others and self, social ostracism or disapproval, personal losses, etc.) or rewards (affection of others, personal satisfaction in doing "the right thing," tangible benefits, etc.).
Sure, that can be a factor, but again, that with which many of us take issue, and which fosters the ridicule (and started this discussion), is the following of rules because an imaginary being above is watching and taking notes. You say this is not the rule. I cannot contest that assertion.
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I submit that non-theists obey laws re: taxes, traffic, etc. even when their "conscience" may disagree with those laws...not simply because "it's the right thing to do" but also (or perhaps only) out of fear of repercussions.
Could well be, though I think most conscious nontheists (along the spectrum from hardcore atheist to agnostic) agree with the existence, abidance, and enforcement of sensible laws. I, as an agnostic with an atheistic persuasion, happen to agree with laws - at least those that are rational, which are most. If I speed, which I admittedly do (not excessively, but nevertheless...), and I am pulled over and given a ticket, I don't get angry at anyone or the system. I pay the ticket. I am not a goody two-shoes.
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To some degree, everyone's behavior is affected by systems of rewards or punishments.
To some degree, yes, but being a decent human being means doing the right thing regardless of the prospect of a reward or punishment. What "doing the right thing" is, is not always clear-cut.
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Old 05-03-17, 09:00 PM   #2508
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Re: The Random Political Memes Thread

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Does this meme include Christian universities like Liberty?
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Old 05-04-17, 06:40 AM   #2509
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Re: The Random Political Memes Thread

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Old 05-04-17, 06:43 AM   #2510
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Re: The Random Political Memes Thread

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Old 05-04-17, 06:51 AM   #2511
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Re: The Random Political Memes Thread

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Old 05-04-17, 07:55 AM   #2512
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Re: The Random Political Memes Thread

Too simplified. I think the biggest shift in the economy was caused by "the race to the bottom (of profits)". Everyone discounts their products until they're not profiting anymore. This is caused by market saturation. Then they continue to operate on false means (including the stock market) and can prop themselves up for many years (decades). They pay low, they cut corners, and that "trickles down" to everyone around them.
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Old 05-04-17, 09:33 AM   #2513
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Re: The Random Political Memes Thread

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Originally Posted by Norm de Plume View Post
I disagree. I believe one should comment freely on the captioned pictures(), but not indulge in a tangential, continuing dialectic such as the one we're having. I think this will be my last response, so I will try to wrap things up.
I sort of agree with your disagreement & will allow you the last debating points (which I have really appreciated for your balanced, well-written, well-thought-out points that demonstrate not only a listening ear but also consideration of other points). Good wrap-up, btw!

But most of all, I appreciate your use of the term "dialectic."

See you back in the Music thread, but meanwhile, back to the thread topic:

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Old 05-04-17, 04:55 PM   #2514
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Re: The Random Political Memes Thread

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Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
...which I have really appreciated for your balanced, well-written, well-thought-out points that demonstrate not only a listening ear but also consideration of other points...
Same to you. Sometimes one can disagree without getting nasty or hateful.
Now, back to inri's splendidly cogent captioned pics, and Space Age Mafia's and msspmms's... contributions.
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Old 05-04-17, 05:11 PM   #2515
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Re: The Random Political Memes Thread

^^^^^A DVD Talk beer summit
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Old 05-04-17, 05:14 PM   #2516
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Re: The Random Political Memes Thread

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msspmms's... contributions.
Gosh.

I contribute
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Old 05-04-17, 05:46 PM   #2517
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Re: The Random Political Memes Thread

I couldn't think of a word that expressed it more half-heartedly. "Entries", "Posts"?
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Old 05-04-17, 10:02 PM   #2518
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Re: The Random Political Memes Thread

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Originally Posted by Norm de Plume View Post
I couldn't think of a word that expressed it more half-heartedly. "Entries", "Posts"?
I think I can help -

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Old 05-04-17, 10:29 PM   #2519
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Re: The Random Political Memes Thread

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Old 05-04-17, 11:53 PM   #2520
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Re: The Random Political Memes Thread

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Originally Posted by EinCB View Post
That's awesome.
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Old 05-05-17, 12:19 AM   #2521
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Re: The Random Political Memes Thread

Here's how the "Alternative Facts" crowd sees that.



My take away: If you're partaking in the experiment, you're a "dummy"!
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Old 05-05-17, 07:46 AM   #2522
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Re: The Random Political Memes Thread

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That's awesome.
U.S. unemployment 4.4% <- Great news!
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Old 05-05-17, 10:15 AM   #2523
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Re: The Random Political Memes Thread

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The reason there will be no change is because the people who stand to lose from change have all the power. And the people who stand to gain from change have none of the power.

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Old 05-05-17, 10:17 AM   #2524
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Re: The Random Political Memes Thread

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The reason there will be no change is because the people who stand to lose from change have all the power. And the people who stand to gain from change have none of the power.

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Old 05-05-17, 10:19 AM   #2525
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Re: The Random Political Memes Thread

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