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Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

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Old 03-25-16, 06:02 PM   #76
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Re: Christian Idea Exchange

Maybe people saw more no True Christian (TM) rhetoric and figured they were still in the other thread.

Last edited by hdnmickey; 03-25-16 at 07:41 PM.
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Old 03-25-16, 06:31 PM   #77
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Re: Christian Idea Exchange

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Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
It says a lot that a thread established primarily for Christians to exchange ideas (along with questions from non-Christians curious to learn firsthand) keeps getting sidetracked by those who mistake this thread for the "Christian-bashing thread" that has been around for quite a while.

One would think that the other thread would be sufficient if all one wants to do is mock & ridicule. It's reminiscient of the entertainment threads in which some posters keep (repeatedly) popping up to say how much they hate a particular band, show, author.

The common response in those threads is annoyance from the people who do enjoy the topic and would like to have a civil discussion. If the thread-crappers there wanted to ask why the fans like the topic in question or something along those lines, the fans in those threads probably wouldn't mind. But when the only reason for posting in a thread is to crash the party...especially when other threads already exist for the express purpose of critical comments...it does make one wonder about motivations and character.

At least, that's how it works in other threads.
Says the guy who turns every thread regarding abortion or gay marriage into a sermon on his particular religious objection to both. Want me to call the WAAAAAMbulance?
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Old 03-25-16, 07:14 PM   #78
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Re: Christian Idea Exchange

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Originally Posted by hdnmickey View Post
Maybe people saw more no True Christian (TM) rhetoric and figured they were still the other thread.
Or maybe not.

Of course, people could just refer to the title of the thread displayed at all times if they have so much trouble keeping their place.
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Old 03-25-16, 10:23 PM   #79
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Re: Christian Idea Exchange

Yeah, everybody should "know their place," shouldn't they?

A few years ago you were crapping in a thread Tracer Bullet made and telling him he had no right to ask you to leave. Kinda sucks when the shoe is on the other foot, doesn't it?

http://forum.dvdtalk.com/11654863-post60.html
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Old 03-26-16, 08:14 AM   #80
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Re: Christian Idea Exchange

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Originally Posted by Vibiana View Post
Yeah, everybody should "know their place," shouldn't they?

A few years ago you were crapping in a thread Tracer Bullet made and telling him he had no right to ask you to leave. Kinda sucks when the shoe is on the other foot, doesn't it?

http://forum.dvdtalk.com/11654863-post60.html
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Old 03-26-16, 09:49 AM   #81
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Re: Christian Idea Exchange

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Originally Posted by Vibiana View Post
Yeah, everybody should "know their place," shouldn't they?

A few years ago you were crapping in a thread Tracer Bullet made and telling him he had no right to ask you to leave. Kinda sucks when the shoe is on the other foot, doesn't it?

http://forum.dvdtalk.com/11654863-post60.html

A fair point.

However, I would like to point out that many times those type of off topic, and thread crapping, posts have been moved or deleted. Threads have been closed and warnings have been issued.

Please refrain from turning this into one of those threads. Use the appropriate thread, do not thread crap, and address the post not the poster.

Thank you.
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Old 03-26-16, 12:33 PM   #82
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Re: Christian Idea Exchange

Yes, by all means take the discussion of patriotic, non-war related songs to the music forum where it belongs. Thank-you.
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Old 03-27-16, 05:01 AM   #83
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Re: Christian Idea Exchange

Happy Easter, everybody!

http://image.slidesharecdn.com/hcipa...?cb=1438914297

Actually, Spider, no "wall of text" needed. I'm grateful that an anonymous poster whose idea of civil discourse is to call forum members liars & to say "Fuck you" somehow managed to muster up enough courtesy to provide a link that demonstrates the difference between threadcrapping & commenting.

Here's the relevant quote:

"Sorry, Tracer Bullet & others...you don't own the internet, nor do "you guys" own this thread. As long as the "discussion"...or propaganda/closed "debate", as someone & their "ilk" prefer...invokes ethical issues such as philosophical opinions surrounding "fairness", the issue SHOULD BE open for discussion. Otherwise, re-title the thread to read, "Thread Open for Supporters of Homosexual Marriage Only...All Others Unwelcome", and then you can have your private conversation among yourselves."

Note that the issue was that a thread which was established to discuss "homosexual marriage" [sic] was evidently only welcome to supporters of homosexual marriage. The thought expressed was that, if that were the case, either the thread title or the OP should have made that clear in the original post.

A simple analogy: The intent of a thread titled "Cake Lovers Idea Exchange" with the added first post explanation that the purpose of the thread was to allow cake lovers to exchange recipes, talk about favorites, etc. would be pretty obvious. If others wanted to ask questions such as "Why do you love cake so much," "What's so great about cake," etc., that would be fair game. But for posters to simply enter a cake lovers thread for the sole purpose of demonstrating how much they hate cake would be threadcrapping.

Especially if a "Cake-bashing" thread already exists.

Simple, is it not? Anyone, regardless of reading comprehension skills or maturity level, can understand the difference.

Last edited by creekdipper; 03-27-16 at 07:57 AM.
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Old 03-27-16, 05:04 AM   #84
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Re: Christian Idea Exchange

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Originally Posted by hdnmickey View Post
Yes, by all means take the discussion of patriotic, non-war related songs to the music forum where it belongs. Thank-you.
Thank you for pointing this out. The discussion of the religious content (not known to many) of the best-known and best-loved patriotic songs fit perfectly into the discussion; other songs without such content are wandering far afield from the thread topic.

Likewise, as you obviously noticed from the original post, discussion of favorite hymns (and the patriotic songs to which you alluded are include in many hymnals) is appropriate. Discussion of "Don't Worry, Be Happy" would be appropriate in the music thread.

Last edited by creekdipper; 03-27-16 at 05:17 AM.
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Old 03-27-16, 05:10 AM   #85
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Re: Christian Idea Exchange

Now, back to the topic.

Favorite Christian commentators (that is, those who publish biblical exegesis for purpose of Bible study)?

A currrent favorite: Matthew Henry.
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Old 03-27-16, 05:14 AM   #86
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Re: Christian Idea Exchange

Romans series Sermon 3: http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninf...ID=22116163850

Title: "Paul, Slave of Christ and Apostle of God's Gospel"
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Old 03-27-16, 06:13 AM   #87
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Re: Christian Idea Exchange

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Originally Posted by Bandoman View Post
This. So very this. If the Bible is God's Word, then God is a terrible messenger since he can't even get his own people to agree what it means. Why couldn't an omniscient, omnipotent God leave one clear message which everyone would agree on? Either he can't (in which case he is limited) or he won't (in which case he is an asshole - and don't give me that crap about election. If God made me and wants me to believe in Him, he'll let me know unequivocally that He is real. If he doesn't, then he doesn't want to save me, in which case He is evil. Why create a sentient being only to intentionally torture that being for eternity?)

Yeah, that's the religious pluralism thing. Maybe we are incapable of understanding the nature of the creator (in which case, why try) and there are multiple ways to try to get at the subject.
Bando, let's look at your last paragraph & compare it to the first.

You suggest the possibility that maybe we are incapable of understanding the nature of the Creator...and that inability leads to the possibility of "multiple ways" to approach the subject.

However, when presented with an explanation that addresses this issue, you summarily dismiss it because it doesn't make sense to you. Doesn't such an attitude suggest that you have already closed your mind to one explanation? In other words, could it be that it is possible to understand God's nature but that God must grant that ability but chooses not to do so for all? When the Bible says this is the case and things play out exactly as described, isn't it a bit disingenuous to suggest that the answers do not exist (or that they make sense to no one)?

A common complaint is that "people invent the type of god(s) they want to believe in" (or similar variations); yet, when presented with a God who doesn't behave in ways that a person wants, that person rejects that depiction. When you say, "Don't give me that election crap," aren't you rejecting that doctrine because it doesn't match your own views? In other words, aren't you demanding that God act as you want Him to, as though you are the Creator of All rather than Him?

When the doctrine of election (taught throughout the Bible) provides a clear answer to your questions as to why God doesn't reveal Himself to everyone and doesn't save everyone...and those answers are rejected...is the problem with the answers or the person receiving the answers?

As an attorney, if you explain a rather simple matter of law clearly to a client who then says, "Well, that doesn't make any sense to me and I don't believe it," do you think the problem is with you, the law, or the client? Assuming that the client is reasonably intelligent, do you ever think that the inability to comprehend may be due to the client's biases interfering along with his/her preconceived notions?

(Btw...this is an excellent topic for a Christian idea exchange since it brings up topics that cause dilemmas for many Christians who have problem accepting the doctrine of God's election of those upon whom He chooses to demonstrate mercy).

It would be great if other Christians would weigh in and explain their views about the multitude of passages supporting this essential doctrine of the faith.

Last edited by creekdipper; 03-27-16 at 06:29 AM.
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Old 03-27-16, 07:36 AM   #88
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Re: Christian Idea Exchange

Re: the idea of "multiple paths" to knowing God, here is what Jesus had to say on the subject in John 8:

31 So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed him, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”


Now, isn't "truth" pretty much limited in everyone's vocabulary? If "truth" is relative and everyone can own their own "truth", then the term is meaningless in any general sense. Bear in mind that the phrase was "the truth"...not "your truth," "any truth," "a truth," etc.

Some may argue that everyone is entitled to his/her own truth...just as everyone is entitled to his/her own opinions. But saying that all "truths" can be reconciled and compatible just destroys the term.

At the very least, even if someone argues that Jesus was only talking to His followers regarding "that" truth, it seems obvious that this view would exclude other "truths" from embraced by Christians as being universally equal and applicable to all humans.

That would suggest that God regards any views (even non-belief) as being equally acceptable and pleasing to Him...a view not supported by any biblical passage.

Last edited by creekdipper; 03-27-16 at 08:00 AM.
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Old 03-27-16, 08:57 AM   #89
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Re: Christian Idea Exchange

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Here's an idea for Christians: stop playing the victim card. You're not being persecuted by someone not believing the same you do.
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Old 03-27-16, 09:38 AM   #90
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Re: Christian Idea Exchange

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Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
Thank you for pointing this out.
You're welcome. Hope you have a Happy Easter. I know I will. Spending time with both sides of our family today.
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Old 03-27-16, 09:44 AM   #91
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Re: Christian Idea Exchange

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Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
...could it be that it is possible to understand God's nature but that God must grant that ability but chooses not to do so for all? When the Bible says this is the case and things play out exactly as described, isn't it a bit disingenuous to suggest that the answers do not exist (or that they make sense to no one)?
Sure, that's possible. But if that's true, it makes god a huge asshole.

Quote:
As an attorney, if you explain a rather simple matter of law clearly to a client who then says, "Well, that doesn't make any sense to me and I don't believe it," do you think the problem is with you, the law, or the client? Assuming that the client is reasonably intelligent, do you ever think that the inability to comprehend may be due to the client's biases interfering along with his/her preconceived notions?
Or how about this scenario: I know the law, but I choose to explain to some, but not all, of my clients. Those who do not get the explanation lose their cases, and consequently their savings or possibly their lives. How is that fair?
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Old 03-27-16, 10:25 AM   #92
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Re: Christian Idea Exchange

Lawyers work in mysterious ways, and we can't know their motivations, but they have their clients' best interests at heart.
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Old 03-27-16, 02:07 PM   #93
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Re: Christian Idea Exchange

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Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
Re: the idea of "multiple paths" to knowing God, here is what Jesus had to say on the subject in John 8:

31 So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed him, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”


Now, isn't "truth" pretty much limited in everyone's vocabulary? If "truth" is relative and everyone can own their own "truth", then the term is meaningless in any general sense. Bear in mind that the phrase was "the truth"...not "your truth," "any truth," "a truth," etc.

Some may argue that everyone is entitled to his/her own truth...just as everyone is entitled to his/her own opinions. But saying that all "truths" can be reconciled and compatible just destroys the term.

At the very least, even if someone argues that Jesus was only talking to His followers regarding "that" truth, it seems obvious that this view would exclude other "truths" from embraced by Christians as being universally equal and applicable to all humans.

That would suggest that God regards any views (even non-belief) as being equally acceptable and pleasing to Him...a view not supported by any biblical passage.
Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?"

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

John 14: Verses 5-7


I understand it's hard for many in modern society to wrap their heads around moral absolutes. Jesus is the path to Salvation.

Happy Easter!
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Old 03-27-16, 02:50 PM   #94
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I thought for sure PhantomStranger was an atheist .
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Old 03-27-16, 03:01 PM   #95
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Re: Christian Idea Exchange

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I thought for sure PhantomStranger was an atheist .
You didn't read his secret origin(s)? He's seen God in person!
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Old 03-27-16, 04:17 PM   #96
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Re: Christian Idea Exchange

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I understand it's hard for many in modern society to wrap their heads around moral absolutes. Jesus is the path to Salvation.

Happy Easter!
I don't have trouble with moral absolutes. But I don't see how believing in Jesus has anything to do with morality.
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Old 03-27-16, 07:21 PM   #97
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Re: Christian Idea Exchange

Prayer request:

Found out this morning that one of our congregants is a cousin of the Tennessee man who was killed along with his wife in the Brussels airport attack.

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Old 03-28-16, 06:43 AM   #98
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Re: Christian Idea Exchange

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Sure, that's possible. But if that's true, it makes god a huge asshole.

Or how about this scenario: I know the law, but I choose to explain to some, but not all, of my clients. Those who do not get the explanation lose their cases, and consequently their savings or possibly their lives. How is that fair?
As a Christian, it is my duty, Bando to inform you that your first statement is a very dangerous statement to make, especially since our mortal existence here make each of us (even the most apparently healthy) ticking time bombs. We always think we will have time for regrets and making amends, but that's not always the reality. I have lots of things I'd do over if I could, and I wish Mom & Dad were still alive so I could spend more time with them & be a more attentive & loving son, for instance.

And especially since I consider you a friend, your statement concerns me. I know that you say you're not a believer, and even if you were, you would probably say that you're only objecting to an incorrect view of God. Still, I would caution you to be careful with your language. I say that out of caring, not out of any personal offense toward my beliefs.

Sorry for getting personal. Back to your other point:

The idea that you bring up (unless I'm totally missing your point) is addressed in the Bible (I can send you a good sermon link about the topic called "Without Excuse"). The principle is that the knowledge of God has been imprinted in the hearts of all men and that they have been given enough "light" to know the truth but have suppressed that truth. General revelation (Creation itself) testifies to God's existence and that individual humans bear their own responsibility for rejecting God (and that all deserve God's wrath for their own sins in addition to their inherited sinful nature). In other words, people are paying for their own sins, not Adam's.

This could lead into many discussions about the tension between the dual nature of sin (original & inherited vs. ongoing & personally liable) which is a challenge. Any Christian who says that this is a simple matter is, IMO, either not being honest or hasn't really given it much thought. And I understand the idea commonly expressed that it "isn't fair" to blame people for their own created nature. And those questions are addressed in systematic, reformed theology which looks at the entirety of scripture for the answers. The answers will not satisfy all or be exhaustive even for the most ardent believer (which is where faith enters in, but that's part of the extended discussion).

The thing is, if one wants to start questioning God's plans, one might as well start at the beginning and question why God allowed sin to exist in the first place when everything could have remained perfect. Why create fallible humans who are predestined to sin?

In other words, if one wants to question God, it seems pointless to focus on small individual tragedies when the entirety of history is available for complaints.
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Old 03-28-16, 07:03 AM   #99
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Re: Christian Idea Exchange

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I don't have trouble with moral absolutes. But I don't see how believing in Jesus has anything to do with morality.
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Old 03-28-16, 07:35 AM   #100
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Re: Christian Idea Exchange

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As a Christian, it is my duty, Bando to inform you that your first statement is a very dangerous statement to make, especially since our mortal existence here make each of us (even the most apparently healthy) ticking time bombs. We always think we will have time for regrets and making amends, but that's not always the reality. I have lots of things I'd do over if I could, and I wish Mom & Dad were still alive so I could spend more time with them & be a more attentive & loving son, for instance.

And especially since I consider you a friend, your statement concerns me. I know that you say you're not a believer, and even if you were, you would probably say that you're only objecting to an incorrect view of God. Still, I would caution you to be careful with your language. I say that out of caring, not out of any personal offense toward my beliefs.

Sorry for getting personal. Back to your other point:

The idea that you bring up (unless I'm totally missing your point) is addressed in the Bible (I can send you a good sermon link about the topic called "Without Excuse"). The principle is that the knowledge of God has been imprinted in the hearts of all men and that they have been given enough "light" to know the truth but have suppressed that truth. General revelation (Creation itself) testifies to God's existence and that individual humans bear their own responsibility for rejecting God (and that all deserve God's wrath for their own sins in addition to their inherited sinful nature). In other words, people are paying for their own sins, not Adam's.

This could lead into many discussions about the tension between the dual nature of sin (original & inherited vs. ongoing & personally liable) which is a challenge. Any Christian who says that this is a simple matter is, IMO, either not being honest or hasn't really given it much thought. And I understand the idea commonly expressed that it "isn't fair" to blame people for their own created nature. And those questions are addressed in systematic, reformed theology which looks at the entirety of scripture for the answers. The answers will not satisfy all or be exhaustive even for the most ardent believer (which is where faith enters in, but that's part of the extended discussion).

The thing is, if one wants to start questioning God's plans, one might as well start at the beginning and question why God allowed sin to exist in the first place when everything could have remained perfect. Why create fallible humans who are predestined to sin?

In other words, if one wants to question God, it seems pointless to focus on small individual tragedies when the entirety of history is available for complaints.
First, I don't take any offense and take your comments in the spirit in which they were intended, so thank you for that. Second, I should have been more careful with my language in this thread, since my comment could have offended you. That approach would have been more appropriate for the "bashing" thread, not this one. Sorry about that.

The idea that everyone has innate knowledge of God that s/he can either accept or reject is interesting. What it the biblical (or other) basis for this? If you want to post the link to the sermon, that's fine (but I probably won't get around to watching it until the weekend).

Let's leave the concept of "original sin" for another day, as that is a big topic in and of itself.
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