Release List Reviews Shop Join News DVD Giveaways Video Games Advertise
DVD Reviews | Theatrical Reviews | Price Search Buy Stuff Here
DVD Talk
DVD Reviews DVD Talk Headlines HD Reviews


Add to My Yahoo! - RSS 2.0 - RSS 2.0 - DVD Talk Podcast RSS -


Go Back   DVD Talk Forum > General Discussions > Other Talk > Religion, Politics and World Events

Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-25-15, 12:23 AM   #76
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Rosemount, MN
Posts: 24,479
Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

Quote:
Originally Posted by grundle View Post
Although it's never a woman's fault that she is raped, I do think it would be a good idea for women to avoid getting drunk when they are at college.
Why can't a woman get drunk? Can men get drunk at college?

And apparently you do think it's a woman's fault if she is raped. Because if she hadn't gotten drunk it wouldn't have happened, right? That's called "blaming the victim".

I have a better idea - men should stop raping women. Then women can get as drunk as they want.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-15, 12:35 AM   #77
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Naperville, IL
Posts: 2,896
Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

What if the woman consents or initiates sex while drunk? What is the acceptable blood alcohol level? It's still the man's fault?
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-15, 01:30 AM   #78
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 11,747
Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draven View Post
I have a better idea - men should stop raping women. Then women can get as drunk as they want.
I have good ideas, too. I'm smart, not like everybody says. First, people should stop stealing stuff. Then I can leave my car unlocked when I park. Also, people should stop murdering. Then we can let go all the cops and they can become poets instead.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-15, 05:19 AM   #79
DVD Talk Legend
 
creekdipper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,318
Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draven View Post
Why can't a woman get drunk? Can men get drunk at college?

And apparently you do think it's a woman's fault if she is raped. Because if she hadn't gotten drunk it wouldn't have happened, right? That's called "blaming the victim".

I have a better idea - men should stop raping women. Then women can get as drunk as they want.
I have a better idea than yours. People...men & women, whether cisgender or transgender...shouldn't get drunk. Problem solved!

Of course, having mandatory consent training for all incoming students will correct the misapprehension that it's okay to rape people...which, obviously, has never been addressed in pre-college years.

Again, problem solved!

Still can't understand why colleges haven't initiated mandatory training to inform students that they shouldn't steal from other students. And the one instructing them that it's not a good idea to shoot other people.

Perhaps adding a few questions on college application forms to determine whether prospective students know that it's not okay to rape, shoot, or steal from other students would help to screen out the rapists, murderers, and thieves.

Then again, it would be nice if parents would teach those values to students beforehand...just as it would be nice if elementary & high schools would teach students to read & write before going on to university.

Last edited by creekdipper; 11-25-15 at 05:26 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-15, 05:27 AM   #80
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Unknown
Posts: 4,087
Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draven View Post
Why can't a woman get drunk? Can men get drunk at college?

And apparently you do think it's a woman's fault if she is raped. Because if she hadn't gotten drunk it wouldn't have happened, right? That's called "blaming the victim".

I have a better idea - men should stop raping women. Then women can get as drunk as they want.
Maybe we should have separate colleges for men and women, just to be completely safe!

Again, anyone who thinks that many, many college kids are not genuinely confused when it comes to consent situations is either ignorant or foolish...
__________________
"Have fun storming the castle!"
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-15, 06:48 AM   #81
DVD Talk Legend
 
creekdipper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,318
Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave-o View Post
Maybe we should have separate colleges for men and women, just to be completely safe!

Again, anyone who thinks that many, many college kids are not genuinely confused when it comes to consent situations is either ignorant or foolish...
I actually think all of the new campus rules are a fine idea.

Having to stop every two seconds to ask if both partners are okay with proceeding further beats any abstinence education by a country mile. Talk about killing the mood.

to increased campus restrictions & obligations to obtain consent. Before anyone even gets to second base, they'll just get tired & go out for pizza (and chocolate!).
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-15, 10:20 AM   #82
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
joeblow69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Palm Springs
Posts: 6,140
Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draven View Post
Why can't a woman get drunk? Can men get drunk at college?

And apparently you do think it's a woman's fault if she is raped. Because if she hadn't gotten drunk it wouldn't have happened, right? That's called "blaming the victim".

I have a better idea - men should stop raping women. Then women can get as drunk as they want.
PEOPLE shouldn't get drunk because they make bad choices when drunk. A common bad choice women make when they are drunk is to have sex with someone they otherwise wouldn't have. Men make bad choices drunk too, but those usually end up with them having broken limbs and stuff.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-15, 11:59 AM   #83
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Rosemount, MN
Posts: 24,479
Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

Quote:
Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
I actually think all of the new campus rules are a fine idea.

Having to stop every two seconds to ask if both partners are okay with proceeding further beats any abstinence education by a country mile. Talk about killing the mood.

to increased campus restrictions & obligations to obtain consent. Before anyone even gets to second base, they'll just get tired & go out for pizza (and chocolate!).
Boy, there's nothing better than men belittling and mocking the idea of consent when it comes to sex
__________________
Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow. - Men in Black
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-15, 01:16 PM   #84
DVD Talk Legend
 
creekdipper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,318
Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draven View Post
Boy, there's nothing better than men belittling and mocking the idea of consent when it comes to sex
Who said anything about men?
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-15, 01:24 PM   #85
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Navinabob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Bay Area, California
Posts: 8,770
Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

I thought this article covered most of my views on this subject. Good read.

http://www.cracked.com/blog/4-reason...s-debate-dumb/
__________________
“Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.” -- Thomas Jefferson

"The candle flame gutters. Its little pool of light trembles. Darkness gathers. The demons begin to stir." --Carl Sagan
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-15, 01:27 PM   #86
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
hdnmickey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 9,237
Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draven View Post
Boy, there's nothing better than men belittling and mocking the idea of consent when it comes to sex
Did you expect something different from somebody that thinks men should have the final say. Always.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-15, 01:31 PM   #87
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Rosemount, MN
Posts: 24,479
Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

Quote:
Originally Posted by hdnmickey View Post
Did you expect something different from somebody that thinks men should have the final say. Always.
That's a good point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Navinabob View Post
I thought this article covered most of my views on this subject. Good read.

http://www.cracked.com/blog/4-reason...s-debate-dumb/
Agreed.
__________________
Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow. - Men in Black

Last edited by Draven; 11-25-15 at 01:36 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-15, 02:17 PM   #88
DVD Talk Legend
 
creekdipper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,318
Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draven View Post
That's a good point.
Wow, Draven. You used to be a pretty fair-minded guy, but that's a pretty low blow. Surprised that you choose to feed the trolls.

Maybe your judgment is clouded by your passion on the topic of rape...and I was considering that given your past work with crisis centers...but you need to lighten up, Bro.

A few gentle reminders. As a victim of childhood molestation by an older boy over a period of several years, you know that I don't take sexual assault lightly. And you don't seem to take into account that women can be aggressors and force themselves onto men. I have been on the receiving end of unwanted attention on several occasions...both from women and (in one instance in college) a man.

I distinctly recall several women mocking the excessive (IMO) rules that required a step-by-step, specific questioning during any sexual encounter. For instance, the guidelines required a person to ask, "May I touch your breast?" followed by "Yes, may I touch yours?", etc., etc., etc. all the way throughout the encounter. If that doesn't seem like a romantic buzzkill to you, then someone is engaging in sexual behavior with the same detachment that a mechanic uses when changing oil.

Again, both many women AND men regard such an approach as excessive and fairly ridiculous. I was never "trained" to react to a female's (or male's) negative reactions by stopping unwanted behavior (in fact, females knew how to stop such behavior either verbally or with a simple hand blocking...and the message was loud & clear). That system worked well for us, it seems. Unless you are talking about someone being paralyzed with fear...in which case they might be too afraid to say "No"...then why do modern females have such a hard time getting the message across and why males have a hard time understanding it...or vice-verse).

But if you think that the incremental step-by-step approach is essential (which still would be a he said-she said testimony unless written consent is obtained...which I remember being mentioned as a possibility, and even then one could complain that he/she was coerced into signing such a "consent form"), then by all means advocate for that. But you need to go all the way to be consistent, and require wives and husbands to go through the same process. You DO believe in spousal rape, don't you?

It saddens me that people think that college students are such miscreants that they can't understand the basic rules of human interactions regarding consent and need to be "taught" what should have been learned along the way...or deduced through common sense.

And it does surprise me to see you going along with the lowest common denominator. I thought better of you.

Happy Thanksgiving!
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-15, 02:36 PM   #89
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Rosemount, MN
Posts: 24,479
Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

Quote:
Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
Wow, Draven. You used to be a pretty fair-minded guy, but that's a pretty low blow. Surprised that you choose to feed the trolls.
You're the one who's mocking an attempt to fix a huge problem.

Quote:
Maybe your judgment is clouded by your passion on the topic of rape...and I was considering that given your past work with crisis centers...but you need to lighten up, Bro.
That wasn't me

Quote:
A few gentle reminders. As a victim of childhood molestation by an older boy over a period of several years, you know that I don't take sexual assault lightly. And you don't seem to take into account that women can be aggressors and force themselves onto men. I have been on the receiving end of unwanted attention on several occasions...both from women and (in one instance in college) a man.
One would think you'd be more sympathetic.

Quote:
I distinctly recall several women mocking the excessive (IMO) rules that required a step-by-step, specific questioning during any sexual encounter. For instance, the guidelines required a person to ask, "May I touch your breast?" followed by "Yes, may I touch yours?", etc., etc., etc. all the way throughout the encounter. If that doesn't seem like a romantic buzzkill to you, then someone is engaging in sexual behavior with the same detachment that a mechanic uses when changing oil.

Again, both many women AND men regard such an approach as excessive and fairly ridiculous. I was never "trained" to react to a female's (or male's) negative reactions by stopping unwanted behavior (in fact, females knew how to stop such behavior either verbally or with a simple hand blocking...and the message was loud & clear). That system worked well for us, it seems. Unless you are talking about someone being paralyzed with fear...in which case they might be too afraid to say "No"...then why do modern females have such a hard time getting the message across and why males have a hard time understanding it...or vice-verse).
I think viewing everything from a male perspective does not give you the tools you need for the female perspective. Just because you feel that everything was A-OK, that doesn't mean it was.

I read this article the other day that might give you some perspective on what some women feel like on a day to day basis.

Quote:
But if you think that the incremental step-by-step approach is essential (which still would be a he said-she said testimony unless written consent is obtained...which I remember being mentioned as a possibility, and even then one could complain that he/she was coerced into signing such a "consent form"), then by all means advocate for that. But you need to go all the way to be consistent, and require wives and husbands to go through the same process. You DO believe in spousal rape, don't you?
Sure I believe in spousal rape. Do you believe that partners shouldn't be checking in every once in a while to make sure everything is still okay? You can take the example to a ridiculous extreme for comedic purposes, but the idea is perfectly sound.

Quote:
It saddens me that people think that college students are such miscreants that they can't understand the basic rules of human interactions regarding consent and need to be "taught" what should have been learned along the way...or deduced through common sense.
Considering the prevalence of rape and sexual assault on college campuses, I'd argue that it is absolutely necessary.

Quote:
And it does surprise me to see you going along with the lowest common denominator. I thought better of you.
Again, I thought you were proud of your status as head of the household. Did I misunderstand?

Quote:
Happy Thanksgiving!
Same to you!
__________________
Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow. - Men in Black
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-15, 03:49 PM   #90
DVD Talk Hero
 
Josh-da-man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Bible Belt
Posts: 26,654
Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow69 View Post
PEOPLE shouldn't get drunk because they make bad choices when drunk. A common bad choice women make when they are drunk is to have sex with someone they otherwise wouldn't have. Men make bad choices drunk too, but those usually end up with them having broken limbs and stuff.
"Beer goggles," bro.
__________________
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."

-- Lucius Annaeus Seneca
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-15, 03:51 PM   #91
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Unknown
Posts: 4,087
Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

Quote:
Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
Wow, Draven. You used to be a pretty fair-minded guy, but that's a pretty low blow. Surprised that you choose to feed the trolls.

Maybe your judgment is clouded by your passion on the topic of rape...and I was considering that given your past work with crisis centers...but you need to lighten up, Bro.

A few gentle reminders. As a victim of childhood molestation by an older boy over a period of several years, you know that I don't take sexual assault lightly. And you don't seem to take into account that women can be aggressors and force themselves onto men. I have been on the receiving end of unwanted attention on several occasions...both from women and (in one instance in college) a man.

I distinctly recall several women mocking the excessive (IMO) rules that required a step-by-step, specific questioning during any sexual encounter. For instance, the guidelines required a person to ask, "May I touch your breast?" followed by "Yes, may I touch yours?", etc., etc., etc. all the way throughout the encounter. If that doesn't seem like a romantic buzzkill to you, then someone is engaging in sexual behavior with the same detachment that a mechanic uses when changing oil.

Again, both many women AND men regard such an approach as excessive and fairly ridiculous. I was never "trained" to react to a female's (or male's) negative reactions by stopping unwanted behavior (in fact, females knew how to stop such behavior either verbally or with a simple hand blocking...and the message was loud & clear). That system worked well for us, it seems. Unless you are talking about someone being paralyzed with fear...in which case they might be too afraid to say "No"...then why do modern females have such a hard time getting the message across and why males have a hard time understanding it...or vice-verse).

But if you think that the incremental step-by-step approach is essential (which still would be a he said-she said testimony unless written consent is obtained...which I remember being mentioned as a possibility, and even then one could complain that he/she was coerced into signing such a "consent form"), then by all means advocate for that. But you need to go all the way to be consistent, and require wives and husbands to go through the same process. You DO believe in spousal rape, don't you?

It saddens me that people think that college students are such miscreants that they can't understand the basic rules of human interactions regarding consent and need to be "taught" what should have been learned along the way...or deduced through common sense.

And it does surprise me to see you going along with the lowest common denominator. I thought better of you.

Happy Thanksgiving!
Again, I work at a college, have witnessed many of these classes and students are genuinely confused (and not because they are miscreants either). The classes are actually not anything like your caricature of them either. They are actually quite informative and most students find them helpful. At least that is my direct experience on the topic, I can't speak for other universities...
__________________
"Have fun storming the castle!"
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-15, 04:44 PM   #92
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 11,549
Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Navinabob View Post
I thought this article covered most of my views on this subject. Good read.

http://www.cracked.com/blog/4-reason...s-debate-dumb/
That was just awful. All opinion. Total apology piece with very few facts. Nearly every comment disagrees with the author.

Last edited by Mabuse; 11-25-15 at 09:46 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-15, 04:44 PM   #93
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
joeblow69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Palm Springs
Posts: 6,140
Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh-da-man View Post
"Beer goggles," bro.
Have there been cases of male "beer goggles" where the man claims the ugly quasimodo must have raped him? I haven't heard of that, but I suppose it happens.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-15, 05:03 PM   #94
DVD Talk Legend
 
creekdipper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,318
Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draven View Post
1.You're the one who's mocking an attempt to fix a huge problem.

2.That wasn't me

3.One would think you'd be more sympathetic.

4. I think viewing everything from a male perspective does not give you the tools you need for the female perspective. Just because you feel that everything was A-OK, that doesn't mean it was.

5.I read this article the other day that might give you some perspective on what some women feel like on a day to day basis.

6.Sure I believe in spousal rape. Do you believe that partners shouldn't be checking in every once in a while to make sure everything is still okay? You can take the example to a ridiculous extreme for comedic purposes, but the idea is perfectly sound.

7.Considering the prevalence of rape and sexual assault on college campuses, I'd argue that it is absolutely necessary.

8. Again, I thought you were proud of your status as head of the household. Did I misunderstand?

Same to you!
Since I don't know how to separate your comments for individual responses, I've added bold numbers in order to respond to individual statements.

1. Who's mocking now? You call the step-by-step approach for "consent" which I referenced...based upon written documents & statements from student advocates on national television who said they practice such an approach...as a "ridiculous extreme" used for "comedic purposes." Did you fail to comprehend that this is not a made-up example, but an actual example of proposed policies on some campuses (from years ago)? Did you fail to understand what "step-by-step" means? Seems that you are acknowledging that this actual proposal...which I believe has been adopted by some schools...is "ridiculous" and "extreme" (your words).

2. In that case, I wrongfully gave you a pass for signing on to libelous statements.

3. Why? In the case of the molestation, I was too young to understand what was happening...but knew that it was something wrong. Nonetheless, did not do anything to stop it for a couple of years until I became autonomous enough to stop it. Asking "consent" would have made absolutely no difference. In the latter cases, I made it clear that I did not consent...and that stopped the behavior. Funny thing...in one encounter with a female friend who was interested, at separate points we both stopped the other from proceeding further (we both had a good laugh & remained friends afterward). At other times, either the female or myself stopped things from going further (which is how I remained a virgin until marriage...never could get both parties on board at same time).
The point is that the "No Means No/Yes Means Yes" procedure is designed mainly to stop behavior whenever one participant is unwilling to proceed further. Someone is attempting to take things to another level...otherwise, the other party would not be saying "yes" or "no." My point was that this policy (verbal or physical denial) was in place and clearly understood by all parties 50 years ago...no "training" needed. How is stating that being "unsympathetic?" Do you think that most rapists simply stop their behavior simply because someone says no?


4. So the female "perspective" on sexuality is different from the male perspective? That sounds awfully reactionary and old-fashioned (almost biblical ). Seriously, it sounds as though you're suggesting that people can't read physical and emotional "signals" that tell them whether their partner is enjoying themselves and tuned in to the behavior. If you're saying that some people just "fake it" to please their partner but would prefer to stop (if they were only asked for consent), then say so. But if you're suggesting that most people don't actually know whether their partner desires to continue without explicit, verbal consent...then I have to wonder what's wrong with those people. Maybe viewing internet porn has screwed up entire generations, after all.

5. I will look at that link and perhaps have my wife look at it to see if it rings true...from a "female perspective." I can tell you that she & several of our close female friends find the "step-by-step" consent approach before proceeding to each separate act to be absurd.

6. Again, if married couples are so out-of-touch with their own spouses that they don't know if their spouse is willingly consenting, then that couple has deeper problems than sexual consent. I'm not going to pry into your personal marital relationship, but I can tell you from my perspective that I have always known whether my wife was "into" an encounter...as was she. The best times we have are when both are spontaneously, fully committed with reckless abandon...no "step-by-step" needed. And there have been other times when one enjoyed themselves more than the other simply due to fatigue, backache, other mental stress, etc...while the partner didn't have those added distractions. But if either partner didn't want to engage in sexual activity, that settled it. It's a matter of mutual respect and love & wanting to please the other (again, no special "training" involved...just common sense and empathy).
That is not to say that...as all pastors I have known have advised...that men & women should not study their spouses carefully in order to both understand them but also to please them. And that includes understanding the differences between male & female drives and emotions. But that has to do with understanding biology...NOT with understanding basic issues of "consent" (the training of which begins with toddlers learning to respect the wishes and property of others).
And, once again...I'm glad that my wife and I are so in tune that we didn't ruin all those great sexual moments by stopping constantly to "check in" and kill the mood. If most couples need to do that, no wonder there's such a high divorce rate.

7. What percentage of students actually engage in sexual assault? Is it a high percentage of persons, or do a relatively low number account for the majority of the cases? It's well known that the most common denominator involved with nonconsensual sex on campus involves substance abuse (usually alcohol). If you are arguing that the assailants need to be aware of legal ramifications of taking advantage of impaired persons, then I would agree that making students aware of that fact might prevent some assaults...simply because the miscreants are afraid of prosecution. It's still hard for me to believe that someone who is not impaired himself/herself does not understand that it is wrong to take advantage of an unconscious or debilitated person (any more than taking advantage of a disabled, underage, or mentally challenged individual). And in those cases, "consent" means nothing since those persons cannot legally give consent. If someone doesn't understand that, what sort of culture did they come from?
Re: verbal consent, view "Blue Car" with David Straithorn & Agnes Bruckner and tell me what you think.

8. Yes, you did misunderstand. In fact, you most profoundly misunderstood.

First, I never said that I was "proud" to be the head of the household. I said that it is my duty to be the head of the household...just as it was my principal's duty to be the head of the school, my superintendent's role to be the head of the system, the school board's role to be over the superintendent, etc. It doesn't imply absolute dictatorship in all areas...and it does add a level of responsibility that is not always desired or fun to assume. And it doesn't preclude equal input into decision-making or a coerced relationship. It's like a marriage in which the female is the bread-winner (outside the home) while the male is a stay-at-home dad. If both agree to that partnership arrangement and are happy, what's wrong with it?

Re: sexual relations...I have to restrain myself in order to avoid making sarcastic comments re: the absurdity of the idea that I (or my belief system) says that the husband has absolute control over his wife's body. I'll keep this as short as possible (since it's been discussed at great length before but obviously fell on deaf ears to those who are close-minded and project their own distortions upon others to grind their tiny hatchets). Both spouses commit their bodies to each other...and only to each other. Both strive to please the other. Neither is to withhold the fulfillment of sexual desires from the other as "punishment." Neither is to be demanding of a partner who is temporarily physically, emotionally, or mentally incapacitated from participating in sexual activity. To put it more succinctly, husbands are commanded to love their wives as Christ loves His Church (called "His bride, in case the point isn't clear enough). Christ doesn't force people to love Him and drag them kicking and screaming into His Church. His followers come willingly after they "fall in love" with Christ (Who first love them).

That is what is means to be the "head of the household" re: sexual relations. The husband puts his wife's wishes ahead of his own. He will never force his wife to engage in sexual activity against her wishes; instead, he will try to understand her needs & problems & offer comfort and support rather than criticism and demands. That is the pattern for behavior in the spousal bed. I would submit that most wives would cherish such a husband and count themselves most fortunate to have such a husband who is kind, gentle, and willing to sacrifice his own needs for hers. Then again, I only have my wife and other women's opinions upon which to rely...although it seems that many women from other backgrounds desire the same type of husband.

As far as the lunatic notion that I have EVER indicated that males should have the "final say" regarding whether females should submit to males in all cases...i.e., that males have a license to rape any female they desire...I would submit that those are the ravings of a damaged person whose own faculties and attitudes toward women are highly suspect.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-15, 05:07 PM   #95
DVD Talk Legend
 
creekdipper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,318
Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave-o View Post
Again, I work at a college, have witnessed many of these classes and students are genuinely confused (and not because they are miscreants either). The classes are actually not anything like your caricature of them either. They are actually quite informative and most students find them helpful. At least that is my direct experience on the topic, I can't speak for other universities...
I was not "caricaturing" classes on sexual harassment. I was citing actual policies which I have seen discussed by actual students on campuses.

Could you provide some details about which information you found to be helpful in these classes? What new information was presented that should not be common knowledge among anyone of college age?

Are these students really that confused about whether it's appropriate to continue ANY activity (sexual or otherwise) to which a person is objecting? And are they "confused" about whether someone who is passed out or incoherent is capable of giving consent to what they are doing?

Doesn't "don't let friends drive drunk" pretty much cover the fact that drunk people have impaired judgement and skills?

In other words, just how dumb are these students on your campus? Or are they simply used to making excuses for behavior they KNOW to be inappropriate?
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-15, 05:14 PM   #96
DVD Talk Legend
 
creekdipper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,318
Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

Draven & Dave: In case you think I'm imagining this "caricature" of consent policies, here's a link to a current article...which I found within two seconds of Googling terms such as "Campus sexual consent step by step."

http://newbostonpost.com/2015/09/08/...ookup-culture/

Below are two paragraphs I lifted from the article. My bold emphases:

Two people who actually know each other and have some sort of committed relationship beyond sex don’t need to, and generally won’t, negotiate consent “every step of the way” as if they are negotiating a lease (I want cable included!). But if sex is merely a recreational activity appropriate for any two (or more, God help me) people who met 30 minutes ago at a party, such negotiations are, in theory, necessary to establish the ground rules.

But attempts at precise negotiation are, inevitably, bound to fail (and fail often). This is because when two people who barely know each other (and are likely under the influence of alcohol) attempt to engage sexually, the potential for misunderstanding, the potential for getting taken advantage of, and the potential for women to be victimized sexually (yes, I said women, because we’re talking generalities) increases exponentially, regardless of the boilerplate consent language handed out at freshman orientation.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-15, 05:15 PM   #97
Enormous Genitals
 
Bandoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: a small cottage on a cul de sac in the lower pits of hell.
Posts: 31,291
Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

I guess I don't get why this issue is so much more complicated today than it was when I went to college. I never raped anyone. I never did anything with a woman that she didn't also want to do. It was pretty fucking clear to me when a woman didn't want to go any further. My male friends seemed to know the same thing. We all knew that a woman who was drunk should be escorted back to her dorm or apartment and left there safely. Of course there were the rare assholes who didn't respect that, but we called them what they were - rapists. Why do today's college students have such a difficult time with this?
__________________
"...Bando...you are perfect and awesome." - 4KRG
"Bando 4 Prez" - DVD Polizei
"[Bando is] nowhere near as big a weasel as Ted Cruz" - dork
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-15, 05:22 PM   #98
DVD Talk Legend
 
creekdipper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,318
Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandoman View Post
I guess I don't get why this issue is so much more complicated today than it was when I went to college. I never raped anyone. I never did anything with a woman that she didn't also want to do. It was pretty fucking clear to me when a woman didn't want to go any further. My male friends seemed to know the same thing. We all knew that a woman who was drunk should be escorted back to her dorm or apartment and left there safely. Of course there were the rare assholes who didn't respect that, but we called them what they were - rapists. Why do today's college students have such a difficult time with this?


(Obviously, though, it comes from a belief that the male should be the head of the household. DVDTalk says so.)
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-15, 07:21 PM   #99
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Unknown
Posts: 4,087
Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

Quote:
Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
I was not "caricaturing" classes on sexual harassment. I was citing actual policies which I have seen discussed by actual students on campuses.

Could you provide some details about which information you found to be helpful in these classes? What new information was presented that should not be common knowledge among anyone of college age?

Are these students really that confused about whether it's appropriate to continue ANY activity (sexual or otherwise) to which a person is objecting? And are they "confused" about whether someone who is passed out or incoherent is capable of giving consent to what they are doing?

Doesn't "don't let friends drive drunk" pretty much cover the fact that drunk people have impaired judgement and skills?

In other words, just how dumb are these students on your campus? Or are they simply used to making excuses for behavior they KNOW to be inappropriate?
When was the last time you've been to a college campus?
__________________
"Have fun storming the castle!"
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-15, 07:48 PM   #100
DVD Talk Hero
 
DVD Polizei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 49,662
Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandoman View Post
I guess I don't get why this issue is so much more complicated today than it was when I went to college. I never raped anyone. I never did anything with a woman that she didn't also want to do. It was pretty fucking clear to me when a woman didn't want to go any further. My male friends seemed to know the same thing. We all knew that a woman who was drunk should be escorted back to her dorm or apartment and left there safely. Of course there were the rare assholes who didn't respect that, but we called them what they were - rapists. Why do today's college students have such a difficult time with this?
Over-protection.

Helicopter Politicians.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:16 AM.


Copyright 2011 DVDTalk.com All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0