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Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

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Old 06-18-15, 06:10 PM   #126
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Re: Shooting at Charleston SC Church

We need more White-Free Zones.
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Old 06-18-15, 06:13 PM   #127
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Re: Shooting at Charleston SC Church

Wait...did they take this Murderous Kid in without handcuffs?

EDIT: I saw video with him in cuffs.
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Old 06-18-15, 06:17 PM   #128
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Re: Shooting at Charleston SC Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by grundle View Post
Please provide a link that shows Obama's words included "with this kind of frequency."

In the meantime, here's what the Washington Post says he said:


http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/m...an-ame-church/

“Now is the time for mourning and for healing,” the president added. “But let’s be clear: At some point we as a country will have to reckon with the fact that this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries.”
Here you go:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/obama-on...violence-race/

You can even watch the video of Obama's speech there. The quote in question happens around 5:19 of the video.

The Washington Post quote you list conveniently cuts off before the words "with this kind of frequency":
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Old 06-18-15, 06:18 PM   #129
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Re: Shooting at Charleston SC Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
According to Fox and Fiends, this was an attack on Faith. Part of the "War on Christianity", don't 'cha know?

http://mediamatters.org/video/2015/0...charles/204043
So Adolph Jr. shot up the church because he was mad at Christians for raping women and taking over the country. Now it makes sense.
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Old 06-18-15, 06:21 PM   #130
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Re: Shooting at Charleston SC Church

In all Fox n Fairness, Geraldo is on the White Conspiracy fence.
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Old 06-18-15, 06:22 PM   #131
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Re: Shooting at Charleston SC Church

The shooter stopped to reload five times. If just one other person in that church had had a gun, they could have stopped him. Too bad self defense is illegal in churches in South Carolina.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0OY06A20150618

White suspect arrested in killing of nine at black U.S. church

June 18, 2015

A white man was arrested on Thursday on suspicions he killed nine people at a historic African-American church in South Carolina after sitting with them for an hour of Bible study in an attack U.S. officials are investigating as a hate crime.

The mass shooting set off an intense 14-hour manhunt that ended when 21-year-old Dylann Roof was arrested in a traffic stop about 220 miles (350 km) north of Charleston, South Carolina, where the shooting occurred, officials said.

Wednesday's mass shooting at the almost 200-year-old Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church, comes after a year of turmoil and protests over race relations, policing and criminal justice in the United States. A series of police killings of unarmed black men has sparked a renewed civil rights movement under the "Black Lives Matter" banner.

Four pastors, including Democratic state Senator Clementa Pinckney, 41, were among the six women and three men shot dead at the church nicknamed "Mother Emanuel," which was burned to the ground in the late 1820s after a slave revolt led by one of its founders.

"The fact that this took place in a black church obviously raises questions about a dark part of our history," said U.S. President Barack Obama. "Once again, innocent people were killed in part because someone who wanted to inflict harm had no trouble getting their hands on a gun."

The United States has seen a series of mass shootings in recent years, including the 2012 massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School, where a gunman killed 20 children and six adults. Democratic efforts to reform the nation's gun laws, protect by the Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, failed after that incident.

GIFT OF A GUN

A man who identified himself as Carson Cowles, Roof's uncle, told Reuters that Roof's father had recently given him a .45-caliber handgun as a birthday present and that Roof had seemed adrift.

"I don't have any words for it," Cowles, 56, said in a telephone interview. "Nobody in my family had seen anything like this coming."

Roof was armed with a handgun but surrendered peacefully at his arrest, said Charleston Police Chief Greg Mullen.

In a Facebook profile apparently belonging to Roof, a portrait showed him wearing a jacket emblazoned with the flags of apartheid-era South Africa and of the former Rhodesia, now Zimbabwe, both formerly ruled by white minorities. Many of his Facebook friends were black.

Roof was arrested on two separate occasions at a shopping mall earlier this year for a drug offense and trespassing, according to court documents.

Roof's mother, Amy, declined to comment when reached by phone.

"We will be doing no interviews, ever," she said before hanging up.

Sylvia Johnson, a cousin of Pinckney, told MSNBC that a survivor told her the gunman reloaded five times during the attack despite pleas for him to stop.

"He just said, 'I have to do it. You rape our women and you're taking over our country," Johnson said.

U.S. Attorney General Loretta Lynch said her office was investigating whether to charge Roof with a hate crime motivated by racial or other prejudice.

Under federal and some state laws, such crimes typically carry harsher penalties, but South Carolina is one of just five U.S. states not to have a hate-crimes law.

RISING RACIAL TENSIONS

Demonstrations have rocked New York, Baltimore, Ferguson in Missouri and other U.S. cities following police killings of unarmed black men including Eric Garner, Freddie Gray and Michael Brown.

A white police officer was charged with murder after he shot Walter Scott, an unarmed black man, in the back in April in neighboring North Charleston.

The Southern Poverty Law Center, which researches U.S. hate groups, said the attack illustrates the dangers that home-grown extremists pose.

"Since 9/11, our country has been fixated on the threat of Jihadi terrorism. But the horrific tragedy at the Emanuel AME reminds us that the threat of homegrown domestic terrorism is very real," the group said in a statement, referring to the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks on the United States.

There have been 4,120 reported hate crimes across the United States, including 56 murders, since 2003, the center said.

Other victims included three church pastors: DePayne Middleton Doctor, 49, Sharonda Coleman Singleton, 45 and Reverend Daniel Simmons, 74; Cynthia Hurd, a 54-year-old employee of the Charleston County Public Library, and Susie Jackson, 87; Ethel Lance, 70, Tywanza Sanders, 26, and Myra Thompson 59, an associate pastor at the church, according to the county coroner.

"This is going to put a lot of concern to every black church when guys have to worry about getting shot in the church," said Tamika Brown, who attended one of several overflow prayer vigils held at Charleston churches.

Police in Charleston responded to multiple bomb threats around the city through the course of the day on Thursday.

Three people survived the attack.

"It is a very, very sad day in South Carolina," Governor Nikki Haley, a Republican, in a tearful statement.

That grief rang hollow for some civil-rights activists, who noted that the state capital in Columbia still flies the Confederate flag, the rallying symbol of the pro-slavery South during the Civil War.

"The reality that racism is alive and well and that we have a problem with guns," said Clayborne Carson, founding director of the Martin Luther King Jr. Research and Education Institute at Stanford University. "People will throw up their hands and say 'how terrible' and the governor of South Carolina will put the Confederate flag of the state at half staff and then will get back to passing more laws that allow people to carry guns."

(Additional reporting by David Bailey in Minneapolis; Brian Snyder in Charleston; Julia Edwards in Washington; Emily Flitter and Alana Wise in New York; David Adams in Miami; Letitia Stein in Tampa, Florida; Randall Hill in Charleston, South Carolina; Alex Dobuzinskis in Los Angeles and Curtis Skinner in San Francisco; Writing by Scott Malone; Editing by James Dalgleish and Lisa Shumaker)
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Old 06-18-15, 06:22 PM   #132
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Re: Shooting at Charleston SC Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
Drudge apparently didn't get the memo. According to Fox and Fiends, this was an attack on Faith. Part of the "War on Christianity", don't 'cha know?

http://mediamatters.org/video/2015/0...charles/204043

Quote:
Originally Posted by inri222 View Post
So Adolph Jr. shot up the church because he was mad at Christians for raping women and taking over the country. Now it makes sense.

Yeah I see Christian Blacks talking this shit too. Talking about "it's God's Plan" and "its a spiritual war, it has nothing to do with race". Christianity has been playing mind games on Blacks since the White Man forced it on them and beat them down with White Jesus during Slavery.
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Old 06-18-15, 06:28 PM   #133
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Re: Shooting at Charleston SC Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMadMonk View Post
Here you go:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/obama-on...violence-race/

You can even watch the video of Obama's speech there. The quote in question happens around 5:19 of the video.

The Washington Post quote you list conveniently cuts off before the words "with this kind of frequency":

Thank you for posting the link.

Shame on the Washington Post for not including the full quote.

That being said, Obama said it in a different sentence, which does (at least I think) give legitimacy to his critics.

"Now is the time for mourning and for healing, but let's be clear: at some point, we as a country will have to reckon with the fact that this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries," the president continued. "It doesn't happen in other places with this kind of frequency and it is in our power to do something about it."
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Old 06-18-15, 06:28 PM   #134
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Re: Shooting at Charleston SC Church

This guy should be classified as a terrorist and he should disappear into one of our overseas terrorist advanced interrogation centers. No publicity, no media vanished. Waterboarding, electroshock, sleep deprivation the works. Never to return to this country.
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Old 06-18-15, 06:29 PM   #135
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Re: Shooting at Charleston SC Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike45 View Post
This guy should be classified as a terrorist and he should disappear into one of our overseas terrorist advanced interrogation centers. No publicity, no media vanished. Waterboarding, electroshock, sleep deprivation the works. Never to return to this country.
I think you have a valid point about classifying him as a terrorist.

However, I disagree with your other point, because he is a U.S. Citizen, so he should be tried on U.S. soil, and without cruel and unusual punishment.
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Old 06-18-15, 06:31 PM   #136
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Re: Shooting at Charleston SC Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by grundle View Post
The shooter stopped to reload five times. If just one other person in that church had had a gun, they could have stopped him. Too bad self defense is illegal in churches in South Carolina.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0OY06A20150618

White suspect arrested in killing of nine at black U.S. church

June 18, 2015

A white man was arrested on Thursday on suspicions he killed nine people at a historic African-American church in South Carolina after sitting with them for an hour of Bible study in an attack U.S. officials are investigating as a hate crime.

The mass shooting set off an intense 14-hour manhunt that ended when 21-year-old Dylann Roof was arrested in a traffic stop about 220 miles (350 km) north of Charleston, South Carolina, where the shooting occurred, officials said.

Wednesday's mass shooting at the almost 200-year-old Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church, comes after a year of turmoil and protests over race relations, policing and criminal justice in the United States. A series of police killings of unarmed black men has sparked a renewed civil rights movement under the "Black Lives Matter" banner.

Four pastors, including Democratic state Senator Clementa Pinckney, 41, were among the six women and three men shot dead at the church nicknamed "Mother Emanuel," which was burned to the ground in the late 1820s after a slave revolt led by one of its founders.

"The fact that this took place in a black church obviously raises questions about a dark part of our history," said U.S. President Barack Obama. "Once again, innocent people were killed in part because someone who wanted to inflict harm had no trouble getting their hands on a gun."

The United States has seen a series of mass shootings in recent years, including the 2012 massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School, where a gunman killed 20 children and six adults. Democratic efforts to reform the nation's gun laws, protect by the Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, failed after that incident.

GIFT OF A GUN

A man who identified himself as Carson Cowles, Roof's uncle, told Reuters that Roof's father had recently given him a .45-caliber handgun as a birthday present and that Roof had seemed adrift.

"I don't have any words for it," Cowles, 56, said in a telephone interview. "Nobody in my family had seen anything like this coming."

Roof was armed with a handgun but surrendered peacefully at his arrest, said Charleston Police Chief Greg Mullen.

In a Facebook profile apparently belonging to Roof, a portrait showed him wearing a jacket emblazoned with the flags of apartheid-era South Africa and of the former Rhodesia, now Zimbabwe, both formerly ruled by white minorities. Many of his Facebook friends were black.

Roof was arrested on two separate occasions at a shopping mall earlier this year for a drug offense and trespassing, according to court documents.

Roof's mother, Amy, declined to comment when reached by phone.

"We will be doing no interviews, ever," she said before hanging up.

Sylvia Johnson, a cousin of Pinckney, told MSNBC that a survivor told her the gunman reloaded five times during the attack despite pleas for him to stop.

"He just said, 'I have to do it. You rape our women and you're taking over our country," Johnson said.

U.S. Attorney General Loretta Lynch said her office was investigating whether to charge Roof with a hate crime motivated by racial or other prejudice.

Under federal and some state laws, such crimes typically carry harsher penalties, but South Carolina is one of just five U.S. states not to have a hate-crimes law.

RISING RACIAL TENSIONS

Demonstrations have rocked New York, Baltimore, Ferguson in Missouri and other U.S. cities following police killings of unarmed black men including Eric Garner, Freddie Gray and Michael Brown.

A white police officer was charged with murder after he shot Walter Scott, an unarmed black man, in the back in April in neighboring North Charleston.

The Southern Poverty Law Center, which researches U.S. hate groups, said the attack illustrates the dangers that home-grown extremists pose.

"Since 9/11, our country has been fixated on the threat of Jihadi terrorism. But the horrific tragedy at the Emanuel AME reminds us that the threat of homegrown domestic terrorism is very real," the group said in a statement, referring to the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks on the United States.

There have been 4,120 reported hate crimes across the United States, including 56 murders, since 2003, the center said.

Other victims included three church pastors: DePayne Middleton Doctor, 49, Sharonda Coleman Singleton, 45 and Reverend Daniel Simmons, 74; Cynthia Hurd, a 54-year-old employee of the Charleston County Public Library, and Susie Jackson, 87; Ethel Lance, 70, Tywanza Sanders, 26, and Myra Thompson 59, an associate pastor at the church, according to the county coroner.

"This is going to put a lot of concern to every black church when guys have to worry about getting shot in the church," said Tamika Brown, who attended one of several overflow prayer vigils held at Charleston churches.

Police in Charleston responded to multiple bomb threats around the city through the course of the day on Thursday.

Three people survived the attack.

"It is a very, very sad day in South Carolina," Governor Nikki Haley, a Republican, in a tearful statement.

That grief rang hollow for some civil-rights activists, who noted that the state capital in Columbia still flies the Confederate flag, the rallying symbol of the pro-slavery South during the Civil War.

"The reality that racism is alive and well and that we have a problem with guns," said Clayborne Carson, founding director of the Martin Luther King Jr. Research and Education Institute at Stanford University. "People will throw up their hands and say 'how terrible' and the governor of South Carolina will put the Confederate flag of the state at half staff and then will get back to passing more laws that allow people to carry guns."

(Additional reporting by David Bailey in Minneapolis; Brian Snyder in Charleston; Julia Edwards in Washington; Emily Flitter and Alana Wise in New York; David Adams in Miami; Letitia Stein in Tampa, Florida; Randall Hill in Charleston, South Carolina; Alex Dobuzinskis in Los Angeles and Curtis Skinner in San Francisco; Writing by Scott Malone; Editing by James Dalgleish and Lisa Shumaker)
Doesn't the law specify church members are allowed to carry if they get permission from the church?

Why do you want the government to be able to tell churches/businesses what they can and can't do? Sounds like a nanny state thing to me.
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Old 06-18-15, 06:38 PM   #137
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Re: Shooting at Charleston SC Church

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Originally Posted by shadowhawk2020 View Post
Doesn't the law specify church members are allowed to carry if they get permission from the church?

Why do you want the government to be able to tell churches/businesses what they can and can't do? Sounds like a nanny state thing to me.
Yes it does
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Old 06-18-15, 06:38 PM   #138
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Re: Shooting at Charleston SC Church

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Originally Posted by grundle View Post
That being said, Obama said it in a different sentence, which does (at least I think) give legitimacy to his critics.
Yes, he said it in the very next sentence of the speech. He didn't say it in a different speech on a different day. But I'm fully aware that his critics will tell themselves whatever they need to that allows them to feel their criticism is legitimate.
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Old 06-18-15, 06:49 PM   #139
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Re: Shooting at Charleston SC Church

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Originally Posted by grundle View Post
The shooter stopped to reload five times. If just one other person in that church had had a gun, they could have stopped him.
Yes, it's possible. It's also possible that the killer would've shot that person first and then had two guns.
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Old 06-18-15, 06:52 PM   #140
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Re: Shooting at Charleston SC Church

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Originally Posted by grundle View Post
Thank you for posting the link.

Shame on the Washington Post for not including the full quote.

That being said, Obama said it in a different sentence, which does (at least I think) give legitimacy to his critics.

"Now is the time for mourning and for healing, but let's be clear: at some point, we as a country will have to reckon with the fact that this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries," the president continued. "It doesn't happen in other places with this kind of frequency and it is in our power to do something about it."
No. No it doesn't give any legitimacy to your criticism. Because we have this thing called context in our language, whereby taking a random sentence out of a speech will completely change the meaning and intent. That's what the Post did. The only thing it gives legitimacy to is the notion that the paper (and you) have an agenda (shocking!)...
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Old 06-18-15, 07:07 PM   #141
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Re: Shooting at Charleston SC Church

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Originally Posted by mike45 View Post
This guy should be classified as a terrorist and he should disappear into one of our overseas terrorist advanced interrogation centers. No publicity, no media vanished. Waterboarding, electroshock, sleep deprivation the works. Never to return to this country.
What's the definition of a terrorist.

Mass murderer. Yes. Racist. Yes.

Political affiliations? Don't know yet.

A badge on a jacket shouldn't be the only criteria.
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Old 06-18-15, 07:22 PM   #142
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Re: Shooting at Charleston SC Church

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Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
What's the definition of a terrorist.

Mass murderer. Yes. Racist. Yes.

Political affiliations? Don't know yet.

A badge on a jacket shouldn't be the only criteria.
Is the FBI's definition good enough for you? No affiliations, political or otherwise, are necessary according to our own government.
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"Domestic terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:
  • Involve acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
  • Appear intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination. or kidnapping; and
  • Occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S.
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Old 06-18-15, 07:27 PM   #143
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Re: Shooting at Charleston SC Church

I wouldn't think racism was required either, which your quote agrees with.
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Old 06-18-15, 07:28 PM   #144
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Re: Shooting at Charleston SC Church

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Originally Posted by eXcentris View Post


"Although the word "police" refers to the maintenance of order, the function (of the Municipal Police) mainly comprises the protection of citizens from disasters, and the task of regulating traffic and parking. To do so, municipalities are required to establish municipal police services, under the authority of the mayor for the task of enforcing local bylaws."

The "Police Nationale" is the real police. And they wouldn't dispatch friggin' untrained/unarmed traffic cops to the scene of a crime...

OK. So they were the dream police, not the real police.

What a cheap trick to pull on the people of Fance.
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Old 06-18-15, 07:32 PM   #145
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Re: Shooting at Charleston SC Church

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Originally Posted by davidh777 View Post
I wouldn't think racism was required either, which your quote agrees with.
I think the second point, intimidating a civilian population, can be directly tied to the racist motivations of this attack.
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Old 06-18-15, 07:33 PM   #146
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Re: Shooting at Charleston SC Church

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Originally Posted by davidh777 View Post
Yes, it's possible. It's also possible that the killer would've shot that person first and then had two guns.
Since the accounts (including the one from grundle you quoted) said that the killer was able to reload his one gun five times, not sure what more damage he could have done with two guns unless he ran out of ammunition.

One interesting detail that would be more appropriately addressed later (if not in another thread) is the repeated use of the term black church (and related terms) by everyone from the POTUS to the media. Since most U.S. churches with primarily black congregations identify as Christians, the term may express a descriptive fact regarding the racial makeup of those particular churches, but it seems in modern times to be the antithesis of Christian doctrine of equality of races. Not sure if I've heard of any other Christian churches identified by race. I've heard of nationalities mentioned re: Christian churches within specific national boundaries ("Chinese Christians", the Korean church, etc.), but that had more to do with geographic location. I have heard of churches made up of specific ethnic or national groups in the U.S., but not generic "Asian" churches, etc. Maybe there are "Latino" churches made up of Spanish-speaking congregants?

Just seems odd to divide churches into racial groups.

Last edited by creekdipper; 06-18-15 at 07:52 PM.
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Old 06-18-15, 07:35 PM   #147
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Re: Shooting at Charleston SC Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowhawk2020 View Post
Doesn't the law specify church members are allowed to carry if they get permission from the church?

Why do you want the government to be able to tell churches/businesses what they can and can't do? Sounds like a nanny state thing to me.

1) Not that I'm aware of.

2) I do believe that the church, and not the government, should make that decision.
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Old 06-18-15, 07:35 PM   #148
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Re: Shooting at Charleston SC Church

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Originally Posted by grundle View Post
OK. So they were the dream police, not the real police.

What a cheap trick to pull on the people of Fance.

Do you ever wonder why it's impossible for people to take you seriously?
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Old 06-18-15, 07:49 PM   #149
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Re: Shooting at Charleston SC Church

Geraldo: "Racist Judas"

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Old 06-18-15, 07:58 PM   #150
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Re: Shooting at Charleston SC Church

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Originally Posted by Me007gold View Post
He did acquire it illegally. He was a felon and not legally allowed to own a gun.
why do people keep saying that? just because he was arrested for a drug offense recently doesn't mean he was a conviction felon. please point me to any articles that indicate he as convicted of a felony at any point in his past.
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