Release List Reviews Shop Join News DVD Giveaways Video Games Advertise
DVD Reviews | Theatrical Reviews | Price Search Buy Stuff Here
DVD Talk
DVD Reviews DVD Talk Headlines HD Reviews


Add to My Yahoo! - RSS 2.0 - RSS 2.0 - DVD Talk Podcast RSS -


Go Back   DVD Talk Forum > General Discussions > Other Talk > Religion, Politics and World Events

Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-13-15, 11:38 AM   #76
Time Lord
 
Supermallet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Termite Terrace
Posts: 51,754
Re: Brand-spanking New Atheist- & Christian-bashing thread

Ugh, Bando said most of what I said. This is so embarrassing. At least I said it better.
__________________
“Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”
Check out my vinyl collection!
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-15, 11:42 AM   #77
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Rosemount, MN
Posts: 22,978
Re: Brand-spanking New Atheist- & Christian-bashing thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
The discussion is supposed to be comparing the effects of atheism upon an individual's viewpoint vs. the effects of Christianity regarding behavior, impulse restraint (and constraints), moral considerations, etc.
.
Do you understand that for many, atheism isn't a "thing"? I literally give zero thought to spirituality. Like...ever.

I'm having trouble articulating this. It's like playing in the NFL and not caring about sports at all. That's not two sides of one coin. It's someone who has dedicated their life to a sport and someone who doesn't think about any sports in any way.

I'm the person who doesn't care about sports. So what happens in the NFL, what people who play sports believe in, do with their free time, etc. has no bearing on my life.
__________________
XBL GamerTag: Draven Sinclair
PSN: DravenSinclair
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-15, 11:43 AM   #78
Time Lord
 
Supermallet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Termite Terrace
Posts: 51,754
Re: Brand-spanking New Atheist- & Christian-bashing thread

I believe it was Ricky Gervais who said that atheism is a religion in the same way that not skiing is a hobby.
__________________
“Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”
Check out my vinyl collection!
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-15, 11:46 AM   #79
DVD Talk Legend
 
creekdipper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,801
Re: Brand-spanking New Atheist- & Christian-bashing thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
You can make the thread title whatever you want, but when you suggest that something is a peculiarly atheist attitude when in fact it's a view shared with many minority religious groups, people are going to bring up the minority religious groups. Because it's relevant to the discussion whether you like it or not.
Sigh. One more attempt and then it's relegating these posts to Obtuse Land instead of responding.

The thread specifically limits the discussion to atheists & Christians...the two groups most commonly discussed in this forum (setting aside worldwide mass murders).

Another poster discussed how being an atheist does not preclude holding a particular worldview or philosophy to which that atheist adheres.

I responded by asking which philosophy(ies) would compel an atheist to try to have religious displays/acts removed (to which I received a thoughtful reply).

Nowhere did I suggest that "only atheists" file complaints. Nowhere did I suggest that "only atheists" are offended by Christian displays.

Is it really that hard to understand. The sole purpose of this thread was to move the discussion from other threads in which it was . The impetus for creating this thread was the continual intrusion (by Christian-bashers) in the "Muslim terrorists" threads by those who couldn't resist interrupting those threads to insert irrelevant comments attacking Christianity.

Now you want to do the same thing here. Good grief, man...isn't the topic broad enough without bringing up every religious/non-religious permutation that exists? And that's not even considering the lack of input from Hindus, Buddhists, Scientologists, LDS, Muslims, Sikhs, etc. in this forum.



But nice attempt to move the goalposts.




Quote:
Originally Posted by inri222 View Post
Silly me and all along I thought this was a bashing thread. Maybe I should just stay out of here and go rebel against my parents by listening to death metal.
Evidently the "bashing" in the thread title was taken too literally by those who don't get gentle satire.

But that is your intent, so knock yourself out. You do so in every other thread (see Political Cartoons). I you anyway, man!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave-o View Post
Yes. That all things are natural, and something has always existed. Talk of origins is unnecessary.
Ummm...that was Option A, dave. You were the one implying that there are more options available.

btw...Where's your proof? I'm continually advised here that I shouldn't believe what I cannot "scientifically" prove.

Last edited by creekdipper; 01-13-15 at 11:53 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-15, 11:50 AM   #80
Time Lord
 
Supermallet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Termite Terrace
Posts: 51,754
Re: Brand-spanking New Atheist- & Christian-bashing thread

I would say that many people who sue for removal of religious paraphernalia in public spaces do so mainly on the legal (as opposed to religious or truth-based) philosophy espoused in the United States of the separation of church and state, and the associated court rulings that have gone along with that.
__________________
“Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”
Check out my vinyl collection!
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-15, 11:57 AM   #81
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Unknown
Posts: 4,076
Re: Brand-spanking New Atheist- & Christian-bashing thread

It seems that there is still confusion about what atheists are and how they think. Until this is grasped better, we will run in circles. It seems like a difficult concept to truly understand for some theists.

Plus, there also seems to be the belief that the moral system that any given atheist subscribes to is somehow more arbitrary than that of the the Christian moral system. This is 100% false. But, I have noticed believers seem to have a hard time grasping this as well, and I can certainly understand why.

As far as the "bad" Christian thing, I absolutely believe it is possible and employing the no true Scotsman" fallacy is both convenient and intellectually lazy. It is possible for someone to 100% believe their local Christian church's teachings, but also admit to themselves that they do not have the willpower or desire to follow them all. Yet, their beliefs are still 100% in line with Christianity. They are just a "bad" Christian.

On a side note, my wife who subscribes to Christian morals has a system that is less moral than my own, imo. I say this, because I once asked her what would happen if god came to her, and she knew without a doubt that it was god, and he asked her to kill me, would she do it? The answer was yes. That's fucked up and I wish I had thought of asking her that before we married. I pray to jebus that she never has a psychotic break and thinks she is talking to god. I, on the other hand, would not kill her. I would check myself into the closest hospital...
__________________
"Have fun storming the castle!"
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-15, 12:04 PM   #82
DVD Talk Hero
 
inri222's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 34,186
Re: Brand-spanking New Atheist- & Christian-bashing thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave-o View Post
On a side note, my wife who subscribes to Christian morals has a system that is less moral than my own, imo. I say this, because I once asked her what would happen if god came to her, and she knew without a doubt that it was god, and he asked her to kill me, would she do it? The answer was yes. That's fucked up and I wish I had thought of asking her that before we married. I pray to jebus that she never has a psychotic break and thinks she is talking to god. I, on the other hand, would not kill her. I would check myself into the closest hospital...
Good luck sleeping at night.
__________________
Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty. - Joseph Goebbels

Not all Trump supporters are racists & misogynists, but all of them decided that racism & misogyny weren't deal breakers.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-15, 12:07 PM   #83
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Unknown
Posts: 4,076
Re: Brand-spanking New Atheist- & Christian-bashing thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
Sigh. One more attempt and then it's relegating these posts to Obtuse Land instead of responding.

The thread specifically limits the discussion to atheists & Christians...the two groups most commonly discussed in this forum (setting aside worldwide mass murders).

Another poster discussed how being an atheist does not preclude holding a particular worldview or philosophy to which that atheist adheres.

I responded by asking which philosophy(ies) would compel an atheist to try to have religious displays/acts removed (to which I received a thoughtful reply).

Nowhere did I suggest that "only atheists" file complaints. Nowhere did I suggest that "only atheists" are offended by Christian displays.

Is it really that hard to understand. The sole purpose of this thread was to move the discussion from other threads in which it was . The impetus for creating this thread was the continual intrusion (by Christian-bashers) in the "Muslim terrorists" threads by those who couldn't resist interrupting those threads to insert irrelevant comments attacking Christianity.

Now you want to do the same thing here. Good grief, man...isn't the topic broad enough without bringing up every religious/non-religious permutation that exists? And that's not even considering the lack of input from Hindus, Buddhists, Scientologists, LDS, Muslims, Sikhs, etc. in this forum.



But nice attempt to move the goalposts.






Evidently the "bashing" in the thread title was taken too literally by those who don't get gentle satire.

But that is your intent, so knock yourself out. You do so in every other thread (see Political Cartoons). I you anyway, man!



Ummm...that was Option A, dave. You were the one implying that there are more options available.

btw...Where's your proof? I'm continually advised here that I shouldn't believe what I cannot "scientifically" prove.
No. You misunderstood what I said, as it is not the same as option A. I am saying that the third option is that the universe, in some form, has always existed. Your option A, posits that it has natural origins. I am saying that in this third option, there are no origins. And no need for the supernatural. As in a natural universe, in some form, has always existed, and always will exist. No creation, no "something from nothing".

Please keep in mind that I am not saying this is my belief, but it is indeed a third alternative to what you posited. So asking me for "proof" of something I don't believe in is irrelevant. Personally, I think you should believe whatever you want. Just because I require more evidence before I dedicate my life to a philosophy and a way of living does not mean that you or anyone else needs to do the same.
__________________
"Have fun storming the castle!"
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-15, 12:07 PM   #84
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Unknown
Posts: 4,076
Re: Brand-spanking New Atheist- & Christian-bashing thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by inri222 View Post
Good luck sleeping at night.
__________________
"Have fun storming the castle!"
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-15, 12:12 PM   #85
Enormous Genitals
 
Bandoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: a small cottage on a cul de sac in the lower pits of hell.
Posts: 30,906
Re: Brand-spanking New Atheist- & Christian-bashing thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
Ugh, Bando said most of what I said. This is so embarrassing. At least I said it better.
Well. You said it differently.

__________________
"...Bando...you are perfect and awesome." - 4KRG
"Bando 4 Prez" - DVD Polizei
"[Bando is] nowhere near as big a weasel as Ted Cruz" - dork
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-15, 12:13 PM   #86
DVD Talk Legend
 
Sean O'Hara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vichy America
Posts: 13,051
Re: Brand-spanking New Atheist- & Christian-bashing thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
Sigh. One more attempt and then it's relegating these posts to Obtuse Land instead of responding.

The thread specifically limits the discussion to atheists & Christians...the two groups most commonly discussed in this forum (setting aside worldwide mass murders).

Another poster discussed how being an atheist does not preclude holding a particular worldview or philosophy to which that atheist adheres.

I responded by asking which philosophy(ies) would compel an atheist to try to have religious displays/acts removed (to which I received a thoughtful reply).

Nowhere did I suggest that "only atheists" file complaints. Nowhere did I suggest that "only atheists" are offended by Christian displays.
You're missing the point -- being an atheist has nothing to do with the philosophy a person holds, provided the philosophy doesn't require the existence of a god. The inverse is just as true -- a theist can hold to any philosophy that doesn't require the non-existence of god. Talking about atheist philosophy doesn't make any sense because there is no philosophy required by atheism.
__________________
Goodnight, everyone. Tomorrow will be worse.
Blog
Twitter
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-15, 12:17 PM   #87
Time Lord
 
Supermallet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Termite Terrace
Posts: 51,754
Re: Brand-spanking New Atheist- & Christian-bashing thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandoman View Post
Well. You said it differently.

Don't you wag those enormous genitals at me!
__________________
“Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”
Check out my vinyl collection!
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-15, 12:17 PM   #88
DVD Talk Hero
 
inri222's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 34,186
Re: Brand-spanking New Atheist- & Christian-bashing thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
Talking about atheist philosophy doesn't make any sense because there is no philosophy required by atheism.
__________________
Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty. - Joseph Goebbels

Not all Trump supporters are racists & misogynists, but all of them decided that racism & misogyny weren't deal breakers.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-15, 12:28 PM   #89
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: St Louis, MO
Posts: 5,196
Re: Brand-spanking New Atheist- & Christian-bashing thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave-o View Post
No. You misunderstood what I said, as it is not the same as option A. I am saying that the third option is that the universe, in some form, has always existed. Your option A, posits that it has natural origins. I am saying that in this third option, there are no origins. And no need for the supernatural. As in a natural universe, in some form, has always existed, and always will exist. No creation, no "something from nothing".
I would think the notion of anything having always existed would be inherently a "supernatural" notion. What in nature supports the notion of eternal existence?
__________________
--Kevin--
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-15, 12:31 PM   #90
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Rosemount, MN
Posts: 22,978
Re: Brand-spanking New Atheist- & Christian-bashing thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by kefrank View Post
I would think the notion of anything having always existed would be inherently a "supernatural" notion. What in nature supports the notion of eternal existence?
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Men in Black summed up my feelings on these questions:

Quote:
K: Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow.
__________________
XBL GamerTag: Draven Sinclair
PSN: DravenSinclair
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-15, 12:33 PM   #91
DVD Talk Legend
 
creekdipper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,801
Re: Brand-spanking New Atheist- & Christian-bashing thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post

Definitely. And people say we make no progress in these threads!

All a Christian church can do is expel someone from the Church. If that person wants to continue believing, even if that person chooses to rebel, then there's nothing the Church can really do. Wouldn't you agree that it's ultimately up to god to determine who is and isn't a true Christian?
Before responding to your last paragraph, please allow me to say that I always appreciate the time & effort you put into your responses. I am sure of this: If I were laid up with an injury & you were my neighbor, you wouldn't hesitate to come over & mow the yard. Well...maybe that's overdoing it, but at least you might pick up a $5 Little Caesar's Hot 'n Ready.

My point is that a "believing" person won't continually rebel. To do so would be an oxymoron. Christ Himself talked bout false prophets and also those who who cry out, "Lord, Lord" on Judgment Day (to which He would respond to them to depart because He never knew them). Being a Christian is not merely saying, "I believe in God" (as the scriptures point out, the demons believe...and tremble) or saying "Jesus died for my sins" (Really? In that case, as Christ says, you will know His voice and follow Him." Christ said, "If you love me, You will obey my commands." The prodigal son was forgiven...after he returned home & declared his unworthiness. Show me an example from the Bible in which a person abandoned the faith in open rebellion and never repented & admitted his guilt & asked forgiveness. Even the thief on the cross who showed belief admitted his own unworthiness.

Okay, sermon over. The point is what I was saying about the "bad Democrat." Is he really a Democrat, or just someone who merely thinks he is a Democrat regardless of the evidence to the contrary?

And, yes, it is ultimately up to God to determine who actually believes (as we often hear in sermons, there are many in pews who are "playing church" for whatever reasons...either to fool others or themselves, just as there are those whose doctrine differs from others in ways that are not "deal-breakers."). A church which preaches biblically will acknowledge that only God knows the heart (the concept of the visible church seen to human eyes and the invisible church who make up the true believers. That being said, the Bible has numerous passages (including the words of Christ) instructing the church to use discerning judgment regarding believers (ironically, even in verses immediately
following the oft-quoted-out-of-context admonition to "judge not... etc."). We are told that, although salvation itself is a work of grace that cannot be earned & is not the result of any merit, that good works are the evidence of a regenerated heart. The entire concept of being "born again" with a new heart & new spirit would be nullified by the thought that someone can be a "believer" and live contrary to God's Word. We are instructed to examine our lives to see if our actions match our theology (again, "making sure" of our salvation).

It would be totally cruel of Jesus to tell the adulteress (again, in a passage misused by some to condemn any and Iall "judgment" (rather than condemning hypocrisy) that she should go and sin no more unless actions & attitudes constituting "sin" were defined. That would be like telling a child, "Don't do anything wrong while I'm gone" without defining "wrong" behavior.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-15, 12:34 PM   #92
DVD Talk Legend
 
creekdipper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,801
Re: Brand-spanking New Atheist- & Christian-bashing thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draven View Post
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Men in Black summed up my feelings on these questions:
You are a man of great faith!!!
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-15, 12:39 PM   #93
Time Lord
 
Supermallet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Termite Terrace
Posts: 51,754
Re: Brand-spanking New Atheist- & Christian-bashing thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
Before responding to your last paragraph, please allow me to say that I always appreciate the time & effort you put into your responses. I am sure of this: If I were laid up with an injury & you were my neighbor, you wouldn't hesitate to come over & mow the yard. Well...maybe that's overdoing it, but at least you might pick up a $5 Little Caesar's Hot 'n Ready.
I'd pick you up at least a $10 Pizza Hut pie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
My point is that a "believing" person won't continually rebel. To do so would be an oxymoron. Christ Himself talked bout false prophets and also those who who cry out, "Lord, Lord" on Judgment Day (to which He would respond to them to depart because He never knew them). Being a Christian is not merely saying, "I believe in God" (as the scriptures point out, the demons believe...and tremble) or saying "Jesus died for my sins" (Really? In that case, as Christ says, you will know His voice and follow Him." Christ said, "If you love me, You will obey my commands." The prodigal son was forgiven...after he returned home & declared his unworthiness. Show me an example from the Bible in which a person abandoned the faith in open rebellion and never repented & admitted his guilt & asked forgiveness. Even the thief on the cross who showed belief admitted his own unworthiness.

Okay, sermon over. The point is what I was saying about the "bad Democrat." Is he really a Democrat, or just someone who merely thinks he is a Democrat regardless of the evidence to the contrary?

And, yes, it is ultimately up to God to determine who actually believes (as we often hear in sermons, there are many in pews who are "playing church" for whatever reasons...either to fool others or themselves, just as there are those whose doctrine differs from others in ways that are not "deal-breakers."). A church which preaches biblically will acknowledge that only God knows the heart (the concept of the visible church seen to human eyes and the invisible church who make up the true believers. That being said, the Bible has numerous passages (including the words of Christ) instructing the church to use discerning judgment regarding believers (ironically, even in verses immediately
following the oft-quoted-out-of-context admonition to "judge not... etc."). We are told that, although salvation itself is a work of grace that cannot be earned & is not the result of any merit, that good works are the evidence of a regenerated heart. The entire concept of being "born again" with a new heart & new spirit would be nullified by the thought that someone can be a "believer" and live contrary to God's Word. We are instructed to examine our lives to see if our actions match our theology (again, "making sure" of our salvation).

It would be totally cruel of Jesus to tell the adulteress (again, in a passage misused by some to condemn any and Iall "judgment" (rather than condemning hypocrisy) that she should go and sin no more unless actions & attitudes constituting "sin" were defined. That would be like telling a child, "Don't do anything wrong while I'm gone" without defining "wrong" behavior.
Perhaps then we need a third category, believer, lapsed believer, unbeliever? Because I find it disingenuous to conflate "bad Christians" and atheists.
__________________
“Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”
Check out my vinyl collection!
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-15, 12:45 PM   #94
Enormous Genitals
 
Bandoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: a small cottage on a cul de sac in the lower pits of hell.
Posts: 30,906
Re: Brand-spanking New Atheist- & Christian-bashing thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by kefrank View Post
I would think the notion of anything having always existed would be inherently a "supernatural" notion. What in nature supports the notion of eternal existence?
The law of conservation of energy, if you consider the universe to be a closed system. But I'm not a physicist, so don't take my word for it.
__________________
"...Bando...you are perfect and awesome." - 4KRG
"Bando 4 Prez" - DVD Polizei
"[Bando is] nowhere near as big a weasel as Ted Cruz" - dork
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-15, 12:52 PM   #95
DVD Talk Legend
 
creekdipper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,801
Re: Brand-spanking New Atheist- & Christian-bashing thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draven View Post
Do you understand that for many, atheism isn't a "thing"? I literally give zero thought to spirituality. Like...ever.
Again, your very use of the word "atheism" argues against your own sentiments.

A "non-belief" that can be expressed becomes a "belief" if it summarizes an intellectual position. Yes, I can say that I "don't believe that unicorns exist," but most people don't sit around discussing how their actions might be affected due to the absence or existence of unicorns. Not so with atheism...otherwise, great writers such as Dostoyevsky would not have said that, in the absence of God, all things are permissible.

"Romantic love" is a concept that cannot be "proven" to exist. Some people act (in various ways) due to the idea that they "believe in love" or "are romantic at heart." Others may not do so and state that their lack of actions is due to the following: "I don't believe in romantic love." To say that non-belief in concepts cannot influence actions is to deny the power of ideas (and rejecting those ideas).

A person can say, "I don't believe in capitalism" and then act upon those ideas to eliminate capitalism. You may say that it's their belief in some other economic system, but the point is that their choice of philosophy becomes their creed (unless they constantly change belief systems at the drop of a hat). To do otherwise would be to live in constant turmoil and chaos without any belief system.

Arguing that "atheism isn't a thing" (which is oxymoronic in itself) denies that such a belief lead someone to choose actions & philosophies that would not otherwise be considered. If you ask someone, "Why don't you go to church?" and they reply, "Because I don't believe God exists...otherwise, I would," then that "non-thing" has become a reason.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-15, 12:55 PM   #96
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
hdnmickey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 8,512
Re: Brand-spanking New Atheist- & Christian-bashing thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
You can make the thread title whatever you want, but when you suggest that something is a peculiarly atheist attitude when in fact it's a view shared with many minority religious groups, people are going to bring up the minority religious groups. Because it's relevant to the discussion whether you like it or not.
I would take it a step further and point out it's not just minority religions groups. Certainly many fellow Christians hold these same views.

I also think that at least some are skewed on just how many true, pure athiests there are in the world. Many people open are to faith and belief in something far bigger then themselves. They just reject the notion of man made religions, and as such, don't identify with any single one. A person needing to label all people can call that group anything that makes them feel good, but they are not athiests.

Last edited by hdnmickey; 01-13-15 at 01:03 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-15, 12:56 PM   #97
DVD Talk Legend
 
creekdipper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,801
Re: Brand-spanking New Atheist- & Christian-bashing thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
I'd pick you up at least a $10 Pizza Hut pie.

Perhaps then we need a third category, believer, lapsed believer, unbeliever? Because I find it disingenuous to conflate "bad Christians" and atheists.
As I said in your sig quote, mallet...

What would be the difference between an "unbeliever" and a "non-believer"? Surely you would acknowledge that there are atheists who once professed belief (just as there are believers who once did the opposite...everybody, in fact, if you believe in original sin. We were born on the same side, mallet).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandoman View Post
The law of conservation of energy, if you consider the universe to be a closed system. But I'm not a physicist, so don't take my word for it.
I appreciate your posts, Bando (can't say "Bandoman" without thinking of Full Metal Jacket's Rafterman).
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-15, 12:58 PM   #98
DVD Talk Legend
 
creekdipper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,801
Re: Brand-spanking New Atheist- & Christian-bashing thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by hdnmickey View Post
I also think that at least some are skewed on just how many true, pure athiests there are in the world. Many people open are to faith and belief in something far bigger then themselves. They just reject the notion of man made religions, and as such, don't identofy with any single one. A person needing to label all people can call that group anything that makes them feel good, but they are not athiests.
So you're going to establish an "Ambiguous-bashing" thread just for them?
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-15, 01:02 PM   #99
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
hdnmickey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 8,512
Re: Brand-spanking New Atheist- & Christian-bashing thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by kefrank View Post
I would think the notion of anything having always existed would be inherently a "supernatural" notion. What in nature supports the notion of eternal existence?
Not sure what you are writing here, but if somebody is only seeing things, that from their persective, always existed (like our planet), they simply may not care where it came from and only focus on the things that are actually, actively, changing in and around them. Who cares where the planet came from if your villiage is being wiped out by something your science hasn't evolved enough to understand (plague).
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-15, 01:09 PM   #100
DVD Talk Legend
 
creekdipper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,801
Re: Brand-spanking New Atheist- & Christian-bashing thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave-o View Post
No. You misunderstood what I said, as it is not the same as option A. I am saying that the third option is that the universe, in some form, has always existed. Your option A, posits that it has natural origins. I am saying that in this third option, there are no origins. And no need for the supernatural. As in a natural universe, in some form, has always existed, and always will exist. No creation, no "something from nothing".

Please keep in mind that I am not saying this is my belief, but it is indeed a third alternative to what you posited. So asking me for "proof" of something I don't believe in is irrelevant. Personally, I think you should believe whatever you want. Just because I require more evidence before I dedicate my life to a philosophy and a way of living does not mean that you or anyone else needs to do the same.
So you don't think that an option that "no origins are necessary' does NOT express a belief in the supernatural? That someone (not you) can simply redefine "natural" to mean what you can see & then interpolating to say that, since the universe exists, it (and anything else) always existed? Doesn't that seem to imitate the beliefs of Christians who say that God is eternal & infinite (a belief routinely ridiculed by most non-believers)? Could you cite any scientist who holds such a view?

Again, aside from those who say, "I don't know & I don't care...I just know that no god could have had anything to do with it," wouldn't you agree that most non-believers cite the lack of proof for God's existence as the main obstacle to their believing? It's curious that you should "require more evidence" for the existence of God yet don't seem the least bit interested in a scientific explanation to explain existence itself.

No one is demanding that you believe anything, just asking you to express your ideas.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:05 AM.


Copyright 2011 DVDTalk.com All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0