Release List Reviews Shop Join News DVD Giveaways Video Games Advertise
DVD Reviews | Theatrical Reviews | Price Search Buy Stuff Here
DVD Talk
DVD Reviews DVD Talk Headlines HD Reviews


Add to My Yahoo! - RSS 2.0 - RSS 2.0 - DVD Talk Podcast RSS -


Go Back   DVD Talk Forum > General Discussions > Other Talk > Religion, Politics and World Events

Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-11-14, 11:43 AM   #126
DVD Talk Legend
 
creekdipper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,801
Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Quote:
Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
The Democrats lost seats because the party that controls the White House almost always loses seats in off-year elections. Trying to add narrative beyond that is ridiculous.
So it wasn't due to voter suppression and I.D. laws?

I'm disappointed. MSNBC has failed me once again.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-14, 01:26 PM   #127
DVD Talk Hero
 
CRM114's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 42,512
Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Quote:
Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
Hey, thanks for trivializing every other oppressed group throughout history through selective outrage. Sounds as though you need to read "Guns, Germs, and Steel." Perhaps you should start at the top & aim your criticism the POTUS, who famously declared that we live in a "post-racial society."

You are the one who "doesn't get" that all races have been oppressed at various points in history (often simultaneously), but most people don't hang onto it & use it as an excuse for every failure. When someone non-white person speaking no English can come here on a raft and ten years later be the owner of his/her own business, it's hard to sympathize with those who have advantages afforded by society yet manage to stay mired in self-defeating life-cycles such as disregard for educational opportunities, lack of two-parent homes, high birth rate among unemployed, etc.

But the apologists and enablers will continue to fuel the culture of victimhood...along with those who benefit from keeping people subservient and dependent.
You really miss just about every point, eh?

And LeBron James?
__________________

If its not love then its the bomb that will bring us together.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-14, 01:29 PM   #128
DVD Talk Hero
 
JasonF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 37,482
Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Quote:
Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
When someone non-white person speaking no English can come here on a raft and ten years later be the owner of his/her own business, it's hard to sympathize with those who have advantages afforded by society yet manage to stay mired in self-defeating life-cycles such as disregard for educational opportunities, lack of two-parent homes, high birth rate among unemployed, etc.
I forget -- is that from Mark or Luke?
__________________
These are my DVDs
360 GamerTag: William T Bunny
PSN ID: William_T_Bunny
"JasonF can do no wrong!" -- Rockmjd23
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-14, 01:58 PM   #129
DVD Talk Hero
 
inri222's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 34,186
Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

__________________
Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty. - Joseph Goebbels

Not all Trump supporters are racists & misogynists, but all of them decided that racism & misogyny weren't deal breakers.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-14, 03:09 PM   #130
DVD Talk Godfather
 
Giantrobo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: South Bay
Posts: 53,143
Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

I see. So what some White guys here are saying is if Blacks:

-Get Married and have kids
-Get a good Education
-Keep their thoughts on problems affecting them to themselves and not complain.

All racism from the dominant White Society will go away? You mean that's all we have to do to make White Supremacy end? You will then embrace us as one of your own and you'll never again look at us as different, dangerous, a threat?
__________________
XBOX Gamertag: Giantrobo
On my 4th 360 as of 3.26.10
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-14, 03:20 PM   #131
DVD Talk Hero
 
inri222's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 34,186
Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post
I see. So what some White guys here are saying is if Blacks:

-Get Married and have kids
-Get a good Education
-Keep their thoughts on problems affecting them to themselves and not complain.

All racism from the dominant White Society will go away? You mean that's all we have to do to make White Supremacy end? You will then embrace us as one of your own and you'll never again look at us as different, dangerous, a threat?
You forgot becoming a conservative.
__________________
Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty. - Joseph Goebbels

Not all Trump supporters are racists & misogynists, but all of them decided that racism & misogyny weren't deal breakers.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-14, 03:32 PM   #132
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,482
Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Quote:
Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
You are the one who "doesn't get" that all races have been oppressed at various points in history (often simultaneously), but most people don't hang onto it & use it as an excuse for every failure.
Yes, but how many races have been oppressed to the degree that Blacks have in the US?

Quote:
..it's hard to sympathize with those who have advantages afforded by society yet manage to stay mired in self-defeating life-cycles such as disregard for educational opportunities, lack of two-parent homes, high birth rate among unemployed, etc.
That's true to a degree, but again, you have to take all factors into consideration.

One group that seems to be more successful in establishing their own businesses within their communities are Asians. But do you think Asians are discriminated against as severely as Blacks are in this country?


Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
I forget -- is that from Mark or Luke?
What does religion have to do with this?
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-14, 03:46 PM   #133
DVD Talk Legend
 
Ky-Fi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Cape Ann, Massachusetts
Posts: 10,449
Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Quote:
Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
But the apologists and enablers will continue to fuel the culture of victimhood...along with those who benefit from keeping people subservient and dependent.
What?! Just because blacks in the US currently vote around 80% Democrat, are you suggesting that the Democrat party has a giant vested interest in keeping blacks as a permanent underclass, reliant on government, and consistently voting for Democrats who offer government solutions? That's outrageous! Sir, I'll have you know that American politicians are honorable and noble, and far above the cynical and self-serving power-politics that you seem to know so much about!
__________________
"Without education, we are in a horrible and deadly danger of taking educated people seriously."
---G.K. Chesterton "When all that says 'it is good' has been debunked, what says 'I want' remains."--C.S. Lewis.
Atlantica Vox on FB
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-14, 04:19 PM   #134
DVD Talk Hero
 
JasonF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 37,482
Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Quote:
Originally Posted by brayzie View Post
What does religion have to do with this?
I would think for a practicing Christian -- as creekdipper is -- religion has everything to do with everything. "You didn't take advantage of opportunities to better yourself, so fuck you" doesn't strike me as a particularly Christian viewpoint, but I myself am not a Christian, so perhaps I don't understand the nuances of Jesus's ministry.
__________________
These are my DVDs
360 GamerTag: William T Bunny
PSN ID: William_T_Bunny
"JasonF can do no wrong!" -- Rockmjd23
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-14, 04:27 PM   #135
DVD Talk Godfather
 
Giantrobo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: South Bay
Posts: 53,143
Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ky-Fi View Post
What?! Just because blacks in the US currently vote around 80% Democrat, are you suggesting that the Democrat party has a giant vested interest in keeping blacks as a permanent underclass, reliant on government, and consistently voting for Democrats who offer government solutions? That's outrageous! Sir, I'll have you know that American politicians are honorable and noble, and far above the cynical and self-serving power-politics that you seem to know so much about!

I agree. Because Republicans would never ever use Blacks as a means to scare Whites just to keep them voting Conservative.

that shit never happens....
__________________
XBOX Gamertag: Giantrobo
On my 4th 360 as of 3.26.10
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-14, 04:35 PM   #136
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,482
Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
I would think for a practicing Christian -- as creekdipper is -- religion has everything to do with everything. "You didn't take advantage of opportunities to better yourself, so fuck you" doesn't strike me as a particularly Christian viewpoint, but I myself am not a Christian, so perhaps I don't understand the nuances of Jesus's ministry.
Do you want religion interjected into politics and social issues? Me personally, I would prefer that religious people keep their faith as much out of political issues as possible. If a Muslim, Jew, or Christian supported gay marriage/gay rights, would you bring up how their opinion is inconsistent with their religion? Also, isn't religion interpreted differently depending on the individual? You're going to interpret something that complex and say, "no, you're worshiping wrong"?

Last edited by brayzie; 11-11-14 at 04:59 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-14, 04:36 PM   #137
DVD Talk Legend
 
creekdipper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,801
Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
I would think for a practicing Christian -- as creekdipper is -- religion has everything to do with everything. "You didn't take advantage of opportunities to better yourself, so fuck you" doesn't strike me as a particularly Christian viewpoint, but I myself am not a Christian, so perhaps I don't understand the nuances of Jesus's ministry.
Considering how you interpret scripture based upon projecting your own attitudes, it's clear that you don't understand the "nuances" of Jesus's ministry...you know, the same Jesus Christ who berated Judas for criticizing Mary for pouring expensive oil on Jesus's feet (after Judas had pointed out that the money could have been used to feed the poor). The thrust of Jesus's ministry was for mankind to repent of sins and heal the broken relationship between man & God. He didn't weep for Jerusalem because its inhabitants were physically poor...it was due to their spiritual condition.

If you did a little research, you'd see that the concept of able-bodied people "taking advantages of opportunities to better" themselves as being expected is found in 2 Thessalonians 3:6-10 (the most-ofted quoted verse being verse 10: "He who shall not work, neither let him eat").

As someone who has personally made part of many decisions to aid complete strangers seeking financial help from the church, has personally delivered food & clothing (and physical aid) to needy families (and those claiming to be needy until proven otherwise...choosing to err on the side of mercy if necessary), and has personally given substantial sums (to someone living on a teacher's salary, anyway) to people in dire straits with little or no expectations of being financially repaid, I am familiar with the concept of charity. I am also familiar with the concept of expecting those who are able to help themselves to do so...to do otherwise & simply dole out money to those too unmotivated to work would be bad stewardship.

Last edited by creekdipper; 11-11-14 at 04:53 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-14, 04:37 PM   #138
DVD Talk Legend
 
Hokeyboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 17,617
Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

I've found that when any self-righteous white guy starts with the "If you people would only just..." speech, there usually isn't any real debate to be had. And I am NO "Professional Ethnic" by any means.
__________________
Fuck you and your whore asshole that Eddie Money wouldn't dare touch. - Solid Snake
I wonder if I would turn invisible if I stick my finger up her ass. - Josh-da-man
But there's still HOKEYBLOG!!!
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-14, 04:38 PM   #139
DVD Talk Legend
 
Ky-Fi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Cape Ann, Massachusetts
Posts: 10,449
Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post
I agree. Because Republicans would never ever use Blacks as a means to scare Whites just to keep them voting Conservative.

that shit never happens....
I don't see how the Republican party would be hurt by rising rates of black income and business ownership. I do see how the Democrats would be hurt by that.
__________________
"Without education, we are in a horrible and deadly danger of taking educated people seriously."
---G.K. Chesterton "When all that says 'it is good' has been debunked, what says 'I want' remains."--C.S. Lewis.
Atlantica Vox on FB
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-14, 04:39 PM   #140
DVD Talk Legend
 
creekdipper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,801
Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post
I agree. Because Republicans would never ever use Blacks as a means to scare Whites just to keep them voting Conservative.

that shit never happens....
That would be funny if it weren't so Bizzaro-World-inflected. Anyone following the mid-term elections is aware of the frantic race-baiting in which the Dems engaged in races in Georgia & North Carolina.

Of course, that extremely liberal state of South Carolina...you know, the one that fired the first shot for the Confederacy...just elected Sen. Tim Scott. Of course, most progressives know that he's not a "real" black person...because any black Republican is obviously just an Uncle Tom puppet for massa.

Last edited by creekdipper; 11-11-14 at 04:57 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-14, 04:40 PM   #141
DVD Talk Legend
 
creekdipper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,801
Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hokeyboy View Post
I've found that when any self-righteous white guy starts with the "If you people would only just..." speech, there usually isn't any real debate to be had. And I am NO "Professional Ethnic" by any means.
But if Bill Cosby says it, you just say, "Right on!".
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-14, 04:43 PM   #142
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Formerly known as "orangecrush18" - still legal though
Posts: 13,846
Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
Oh please. I had a single mother. Millions of people have single mothers and turn out just fine. The issue is way more complicated than just "marriage".
And many more don't.
__________________
Everyone else is bound to leave, but you.
And they swear their love is real;
They mean, I like the way you make me feel.

gamertag: IAMNOTwiththem
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-14, 04:43 PM   #143
DVD Talk Legend
 
creekdipper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,801
Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Quote:
Originally Posted by inri222 View Post
Funny that you should post a pic of James wearing a Heat uniform. Obviously, racial oppression and lack of opportunity kept him from choosing which team & how many $ he was willing to play for.

Also funny that you use a Mencken quote about "morality". As an atheist, Mencken would have to subscribe to the concept that each person decides his own morality (since there is no higher authority to do so); therefore, it's odd for him to talk about doing "what is right" when he really means "what is right in your own eyes"...which can mean anything.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-14, 04:45 PM   #144
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 3,817
Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Quote:
Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
But if Bill Cosby says it, you just say, "Right on!".
So I'm more that happy to stay out of this entire argument, but I'm gonna ask for a bit of clarity on this one: Is that a reference to something he actually said, or was that just racist as fuck?
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-14, 04:47 PM   #145
DVD Talk Legend
 
creekdipper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,801
Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
You really miss just about every point, eh?
Well, I didn't have the advantage of having to take a required course in "Multicultural Issues" when getting my advanced degrees. I just had to learn from interactions from real people in real world settings.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-14, 04:52 PM   #146
DVD Talk Legend
 
creekdipper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,801
Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Quote:
Originally Posted by uberjoe View Post
So I'm more that happy to stay out of this entire argument, but I'm gonna ask for a bit of clarity on this one: Is that a reference to something he actually said, or was that just racist as fuck?
Since I'm American-European, it's obviously racist as f***, but here's a recent article about the pot that was stirred by Cosby back in 2004 (the speech has been referenced many times since, as the post points out). Google "Bill Cosby criticizes black community" and all sorts of links will pop up. The one posted below is from May of this year and quotes extensively from the speech with follow-up remarks about the reaction to his very public comments.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/cosby.asp
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-14, 04:56 PM   #147
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 3,817
Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Quote:
Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
Since I'm American-European, it's obviously racist as f***, but here's a recent article about the pot that was stirred by Cosby back in 2004 (the speech has been referenced many times since, as the post points out). Google "Bill Cosby criticizes black community" and all sorts of links will pop up. The one posted below is from May of this year and quotes extensively from the speech with follow-up remarks about the reaction to his very public comments.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/cosby.asp
Gotcha. It was a decade-old reference about a man who in the current climate is more known for a collection of rape allegations.

I hope you understand my confusion. Without understanding the reference, so without the context, it read more along the lines of: "But if a prominent person of color (and one who has recently had some very bad allegations leveled in his direction) said the same thing, you would respond in the affirmative with urban slang from the 1970s." Which would be racist as fuck.

FYI: You should get your keyboard checked because that word turned out all funky in your post.

FYI 2: I'm also American-European.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-14, 05:14 PM   #148
DVD Talk Hero
 
Josh-da-man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Bible Belt
Posts: 25,844
Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post
I agree. Because Republicans would never ever use Blacks as a means to scare Whites just to keep them voting Conservative.

that shit never happens....
__________________
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."

-- Lucius Annaeus Seneca
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-14, 05:24 PM   #149
DVD Talk Legend
 
creekdipper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,801
Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Quote:
Originally Posted by uberjoe View Post
Gotcha. It was a decade-old reference about a man who in the current climate is more known for a collection of rape allegations.

I hope you understand my confusion. Without understanding the reference, so without the context, it read more along the lines of: "But if a prominent person of color (and one who has recently had some very bad allegations leveled in his direction) said the same thing, you would respond in the affirmative with urban slang from the 1970s." Which would be racist as fuck.

FYI: You should get your keyboard checked because that word turned out all funky in your post.

FYI 2: I'm also American-European.
FYI: You should also get your keyboard checked since it added an extra letter to that word.

Re: "Urban slang" (which sounds a bit racist itself...lots of non-urban..."urban" being a code word, you know...people used the expression). Hey, if a term is good, why give it up? It's also fun to start using terms such as "groovy" or reach way back to "bees knees", etc. when people start throwing around hipster slang...much of which will become dated until the next fad comes along. So why abandon perfectly good faddish words unless they lose their appeal once they enter the mainstream?

I used Cosby's comments because they became instantly famous/infamous and were debated roundly at the time (and still pop up occasionally). It's not like he's the only "person of color" (still don't understand the animosity toward albinos) who criticizes his own "community" on occasion. Over the last couple of weeks, I've heard a few callers to Washington Journal who identified themselves as "black Republicans" who uttered similar sentiments (adding the idea that the Democratic Party has done little to help blacks, preferring to keep blacks dependent upon them as the Dem's most loyal voting bloc). Yep, they were the "minority" (in the quantitative sense), but they did express those ideas that black people can't keep blaming external forces for all their problems and need to take charge of their own circumstances.

Racism exists to be sure...from all quarters (except for those who insist upon using the definition of racism as being a system used by those in power to oppress others...as opposed to the more common definitions of racism as attitudes toward other races). But to insist that the main cause of poverty, educational failures, crime, etc. among American blacks is due to systematic, organized racism needs some objective data to back it up. American-Europeans had a head start (see the book "Guns, Germs, and Steel" for theories on why European cultures flourished in technological advancements) just as "old money" from Europe (or made in America through various means) gave some economic classes a huge head start...which still exists, obviously. It's why the POTUS talks so much about [forced] income redistribution as being "a good thing." But that's an economic class issue, not a racial thing.

Even many criticizing the justice system for "unequal sentencing" point to the fact that whites are more likely to be able to hire better attorneys than non-whites (rather than insisting that judges & juries are simply letting off whites & convicting non-whites when all else is equal in the courtroom). I still remember when 'activists' howled about sentencing disparities for crack vs. powdered cocaine (allegedly because blacks were more likely to use the rock). I just kept thinking, "Just switch to the powdered form"...or demand that the sentences for the powdered form by made equal to the rock."
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-14, 05:30 PM   #150
DVD Talk Godfather
 
Giantrobo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: South Bay
Posts: 53,143
Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ky-Fi View Post
I don't see how the Republican party would be hurt by rising rates of black income and business ownership. I do see how the Democrats would be hurt by that.
Neither do I. But that's not what I was talking about...
__________________
XBOX Gamertag: Giantrobo
On my 4th 360 as of 3.26.10
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:06 AM.


Copyright 2011 DVDTalk.com All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0