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Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

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Old 08-15-14, 10:23 AM   #126
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Re: 18 year old Michael Brown shot by police in Ferguson, Mo., & ensuing civil unrest

I doubt the altercation happened because of that. The police told them to get out of the road - I don't even think he was considering him as a would be cigar thief.

It does, however, show that this is someone who is prone to action when confronted. Which would make the account the police gave of the incident more believable.
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Old 08-15-14, 10:25 AM   #127
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Re: 18 year old Michael Brown shot by police in Ferguson, Mo., & ensuing civil unrest

The rioting isn't a cause-effect situation based off of one incident...
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Old 08-15-14, 10:26 AM   #128
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Re: 18 year old Michael Brown shot by police in Ferguson, Mo., & ensuing civil unrest

We also need to know if he posted thuggish photos on twitter.
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Old 08-15-14, 10:28 AM   #129
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Re: 18 year old Michael Brown shot by police in Ferguson, Mo., & ensuing civil unrest

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Originally Posted by General Zod View Post
I doubt the altercation happened because of that. The police told them to get out of the road - I don't even think he was considering him as a would be cigar thief.
According to the first link above, Wilson was sent to the area specifically to investigate the theft. I'd assume that was why he said anything to Brown at all.
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Old 08-15-14, 10:30 AM   #130
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Re: 18 year old Michael Brown shot by police in Ferguson, Mo., & ensuing civil unrest

I don't think thieves should be shot. But I wouldn't start a massive protest or incite a riot over a shot theif, either.
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Old 08-15-14, 10:35 AM   #131
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Re: 18 year old Michael Brown shot by police in Ferguson, Mo., & ensuing civil unrest

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According to the first link above, Wilson was sent to the area specifically to investigate the theft. I'd assume that was why he said anything to Brown at all.
The witnesses said the whole thing started when the officer asked Brown to use the sidewalk instead of walking in the middle of the street and then they had "words". Maybe the words were "Hey you're the guy who just stole stuff from the store over there!" and maybe his witness friends just oopsie forgot to mention that part?
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Old 08-15-14, 10:36 AM   #132
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Re: 18 year old Michael Brown shot by police in Ferguson, Mo., & ensuing civil unrest

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I don't think thieves should be shot. But I wouldn't start a massive protest or incite a riot over a shot theif, either.
What about centuries of systematic oppression and injustice?
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Old 08-15-14, 10:44 AM   #133
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Re: 18 year old Michael Brown shot by police in Ferguson, Mo., & ensuing civil unrest

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Originally Posted by General Zod View Post
The witnesses said the whole thing started when the officer asked Brown to use the sidewalk instead of walking in the middle of the street and then they had "words". Maybe the words were "Hey you're the guy who just stole stuff from the store over there!" and maybe his witness friends just oopsie forgot to mention that part?
His friend lost all of his credibility when he forgot to mention the robbery that Brown committed mere minutes before his death.
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Old 08-15-14, 10:52 AM   #134
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Re: 18 year old Michael Brown shot by police in Ferguson, Mo., & ensuing civil unrest

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Originally Posted by General Zod View Post
The witnesses said the whole thing started when the officer asked Brown to use the sidewalk instead of walking in the middle of the street and then they had "words". Maybe the words were "Hey you're the guy who just stole stuff from the store over there!" and maybe his witness friends just oopsie forgot to mention that part?
Eh, fair enough.
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Old 08-15-14, 10:53 AM   #135
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Re: 18 year old Michael Brown shot by police in Ferguson, Mo., & ensuing civil unrest

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His friend lost all of his credibility when he forgot to mention the robbery that Brown committed mere minutes before his death.
He didn't just lift a box of cigars. He pretty much assaulted the clerk.

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Old 08-15-14, 10:56 AM   #136
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Re: 18 year old Michael Brown shot by police in Ferguson, Mo., & ensuing civil unrest

Was Brown a giant, or was that clerk a midget?
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Old 08-15-14, 10:57 AM   #137
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Re: 18 year old Michael Brown shot by police in Ferguson, Mo., & ensuing civil unrest

I'm assuming that's his friend standing next to him.
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Old 08-15-14, 10:59 AM   #138
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Re: 18 year old Michael Brown shot by police in Ferguson, Mo., & ensuing civil unrest

From CNN.

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A key complaint of protesters has been that witnesses say the officer shot Brown as he stood with his hands in the air.

Police have said the shooting occurred during a struggle for the officer's gun.
Unless it's since been proven which of those two is the truth, I don't see how anybody can say the shooting was right or not.

And yeah, given the pics above it's clear it was more than just a case of taking cigars without paying.
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Old 08-15-14, 11:10 AM   #139
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Re: 18 year old Michael Brown shot by police in Ferguson, Mo., & ensuing civil unrest

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Originally Posted by RoyalTea View Post
I don't think thieves should be shot. But I wouldn't start a massive protest or incite a riot over a shot theif, either.
Usually when there's civil unrest, it's about much more than the incident that preceded it. Ferguson is a city that in 20 years went from being 74% white and 25% black to 29% white and 67% black. The police department has 3 blacks out of 53 members. It was reported that Ferguson police were twice as likely to arrest blacks in traffic stops than whites. The NAACP had already been complaining about the police in the area prior to the shooting. The disgusting Eric Garner incident happened just a few weeks ago. This is the straw that broke the camel's back.

There wasn't chaos in the streets in 1992 because Rodney King was an innocent upstanding citizen in the wrong place at the wrong time. He was a drunk driver that led cops on a dangerous high speed chase. There was chaos because the nightly news showed yet another black man being brutalized by police, something that had gone on for decades.
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Old 08-15-14, 11:11 AM   #140
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Re: 18 year old Michael Brown shot by police in Ferguson, Mo., & ensuing civil unrest

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Originally Posted by DaveyJoe View Post
What about centuries of systematic oppression and injustice?
Don't be silly. That's only acceptable for 18th Century Frenchmen. Black people have to roll with what comes their way.

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Originally Posted by hdnmickey View Post
And yeah, given the pics above it's clear it was more than just a case of taking cigars without paying.
But irrelevant to the shooting.
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Old 08-15-14, 11:20 AM   #141
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Re: 18 year old Michael Brown shot by police in Ferguson, Mo., & ensuing civil unrest

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But irrelevant to the shooting.
Like hell it is! Unless there is proof the officer pulled the weapon ahead of the struggle, the only reason for the shooting is the struggle.

If you have proof, let's see or hear it.
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Old 08-15-14, 11:36 AM   #142
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Re: 18 year old Michael Brown shot by police in Ferguson, Mo., & ensuing civil unrest

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Like hell it is! Unless there is proof the officer pulled the weapon ahead of the struggle, the only reason for the shooting is the struggle.

If you have proof, let's see or hear it.
The struggle happened before the officer arrived. It was no longer relevant to the situation when the officer shot Brown.
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Old 08-15-14, 11:54 AM   #143
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Re: 18 year old Michael Brown shot by police in Ferguson, Mo., & ensuing civil unrest

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Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
The struggle happened before the officer arrived. It was no longer relevant to the situation when the officer shot Brown.
I think hdnmickey is referring to the struggle between Brown and the Officer and you are referring to the one between Brown and the store clerk.

Either way, like I said before, I think that now that we see Brown resorting to violence when confronted it adds to the credibility of the officer's interpretation of the events.
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Old 08-15-14, 11:57 AM   #144
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Re: 18 year old Michael Brown shot by police in Ferguson, Mo., & ensuing civil unrest

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The struggle happened before the officer arrived. It was no longer relevant to the situation when the officer shot Brown.
What if the struggle between the kid and the cop started because the kid assumed "The jig is up!" and started being combative and/or trying to run away? Its relevant in that case.
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Old 08-15-14, 11:59 AM   #145
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Re: 18 year old Michael Brown shot by police in Ferguson, Mo., & ensuing civil unrest

There's a huge gap between the police account and the eyewitness account. They all say a struggle occurred, and if Brown went after the cop's gun and got shot in the process, I'd have no issue with it. The three eyewitnesses (one being the friend whose credibility is now at issue) say that after the struggle Brown fled and the cop still fired at him, and when Brown put his hands up and stopped, the cop still fired. If that is what happened, then that can't be justified by anything Brown may have done in the store, or even the struggle with the cop. As far as I've seen, the police account doesn't address that aspect of the shooting.
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Old 08-15-14, 12:10 PM   #146
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Re: 18 year old Michael Brown shot by police in Ferguson, Mo., & ensuing civil unrest

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Originally Posted by General Zod View Post
I think hdnmickey is referring to the struggle between Brown and the Officer and you are referring to the one between Brown and the store clerk.

Either way, like I said before, I think that now that we see Brown resorting to violence when confronted it adds to the credibility of the officer's interpretation of the events.
Bingo.

And just so we can all be more clear on this, is there anything out there that simply lists what is believed to have occurred, in order of occurrence, without all the media biased BS that makes these issues hard to follow?
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Old 08-15-14, 12:12 PM   #147
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Re: 18 year old Michael Brown shot by police in Ferguson, Mo., & ensuing civil unrest

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Originally Posted by Rex Power Colt-Robot Man View Post
What if the struggle between the kid and the cop started because the kid assumed "The jig is up!" and started being combative and/or trying to run away? Its relevant in that case.
If Brown was attacking the officer when he was shot, that's relevant regardless of what happened in the convenience store. If he wasn't attacking, that's equally relevant, and equally independent of what happened at the convenience store. In either case, what happened at the convenience store doesn't affect the rightness or wrongness of the cop's actions.
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Old 08-15-14, 12:19 PM   #148
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Re: 18 year old Michael Brown shot by police in Ferguson, Mo., & ensuing civil unrest

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Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
If Brown was attacking the officer when he was shot, that's relevant regardless of what happened in the convenience store. If he wasn't attacking, that's equally relevant, and equally independent of what happened at the convenience store. In either case, what happened at the convenience store doesn't affect the rightness or wrongness of the cop's actions.
Nice to see you are now admitting that you don't know if he was going for the gun, which definitely makes the shooting relevant.

I can't imagine you'll find people saying the shooting was legit if Brown was simply standing there with his hands up or was running away. And since there is nothing clearing that up, I'm failing to understand why you're trying to make out others as wrong when nothing is known.
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Old 08-15-14, 12:42 PM   #149
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Re: 18 year old Michael Brown shot by police in Ferguson, Mo., & ensuing civil unrest

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Nice to see you are now admitting that you don't know if he was going for the gun, which definitely makes the shooting relevant.
I don't know for sure, but due to my distrust of the police, I put a lot more weight on the eye-witnesses who are saying he was nowhere near the gun.

Quote:
I can't imagine you'll find people saying the shooting was legit if Brown was simply standing there with his hands up or was running away. And since there is nothing clearing that up, I'm failing to understand why you're trying to make out others as wrong when nothing is known.
Horsehockey. That's the entire point of the police putting the shoplifting story out there -- to prejudice people into thinking, "Oh, well he was a thug. He musta had it coming." And I know people in this thread who will buy into it. One of them already posted a picture to imply the Brown was a thug with sarcastic commentary about him being a good kid.
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Old 08-15-14, 12:43 PM   #150
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Re: 18 year old Michael Brown shot by police in Ferguson, Mo., & ensuing civil unrest

I'd like to ask a loaded question here. Knowing what we know about Brown and knowing what we know about the information the witnesses gave which was likely missing some key elements, and knowing the "Centuries of systematic oppression and injustice" .. Even if things went down exactly like the officer said.. would it even matter? It likely can never be proven and around there police appear to be guilty until proven innocent so either way the officer is guilty in the eyes of the people. Right?
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