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Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

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Old 04-05-13, 10:41 AM   #101
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post
And who decides when it's not working? Obviously The People. But is it a majority? Those feeling oppressed? Those that like the system as is?
That isn't really the question. The questions are, why is it "broke" in the first place? And what should the "fix" be?
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Old 04-05-13, 11:06 AM   #102
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

It's not even a question of whether the market is broken or not. The issue is that for many, the market has stopped being a means to an end and has become an end in and of itself.
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Old 04-05-13, 11:14 AM   #103
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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It's not even a question of whether the market is broken or not. The issue is that for many, the market has stopped being a means to an end and has become an end in and of itself.
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Old 04-05-13, 11:50 AM   #104
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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But let's not forget that much of the reasons for the bailouts was so that those regular employees would continue to have a job. No one was suggesting bailouts to help the "poor" CEO's and their staff.
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500395_162-4680508.html

$1.6B Of Bank Bailout Went To Execs

AP/ February 27, 2009, 10:17 AM

Banks that are getting taxpayer bailouts awarded their top executives nearly $1.6 billion in salaries, bonuses, and other benefits last year, an Associated Press analysis reveals.

The rewards came even at banks where poor results last year foretold the economic crisis that sent them to Washington for a government rescue. Some trimmed their executive compensation due to lagging bank performance, but still forked over multimillion-dollar executive pay packages.

Benefits included cash bonuses, stock options, personal use of company jets and chauffeurs, home security, country club memberships and professional money management, the AP review of federal securities documents found.

The total amount given to nearly 600 executives would cover bailout costs for many of the 116 banks that have so far accepted tax dollars to boost their bottom lines.

Rep. Barney Frank, chairman of the House Financial Services committee and a long-standing critic of executive largesse, said the bonuses tallied by the AP review amount to a bribe "to get them to do the jobs for which they are well-paid in the first place.

"Most of us sign on to do jobs and we do them best we can," said Frank, a Massachusetts Democrat. "We're told that some of the most highly-paid people in executive positions are different. They need extra money to be motivated!"

The AP compiled total compensation based on annual reports that the banks file with the Securities and Exchange Commission. The 116 banks have so far received $188 billion in taxpayer help.

Among the findings:

The average paid to each of the banks' top executives was $2.6 million in salary, bonuses and benefits.

Lloyd Blankfein, president and chief executive officer of Goldman Sachs, took home nearly $54 million in compensation last year. The company's top five executives received a total of $242 million.

This year, Goldman will forgo cash and stock bonuses for its seven top-paid executives. They will work for their base salaries of $600,000, the company said. Facing increasing concern by its own shareholders on executive payments, the company described its pay plan last spring as essential to retain and motivate executives "whose efforts and judgments are vital to our continued success, by setting their compensation at appropriate and competitive levels." Goldman spokesman Ed Canaday declined to comment beyond that written report.

The New York-based company on Dec. 16 reported its first quarterly loss since it went public in 1999. It received $10 billion in taxpayer money on Oct. 28.

Even where banks cut back on pay, some executives were left with seven- or eight-figure compensation that most people can only dream about. Richard D. Fairbank, the chairman of Capital One Financial Corp., took a $1 million hit in compensation after his company had a disappointing year, but still got $17 million in stock options. The McLean, Virginia-based company received $3.56 billion in bailout money on Nov. 14.

John A. Thain, chief executive officer of Merrill Lynch, topped all corporate bank bosses with $83 million in earnings last year. Thain, a former chief operating officer for Goldman Sachs, took the reins of the company in December 2007, avoiding the blame for a year in which Merrill lost $7.8 billion. Since he began work late in the year, he earned $57,692 in salary, a $15 million signing bonus and an additional $68 million in stock options.

Like Goldman, Merrill got $10 billion from taxpayers on Oct. 28.


Your Tax Dollars At Work: Chauffeurs, Club Dues

The AP review comes amid sharp questions about the banks' commitment to the goals of the Troubled Assets Relief Program (TARP), a law designed to buy bad mortgages and other troubled assets. Last month, the Bush administration changed the program's goals, instructing the Treasury Department to pump tax dollars directly into banks in a bid to prevent wholesale economic collapse.

The program set restrictions on some executive compensation for participating banks, but did not limit salaries and bonuses unless they had the effect of encouraging excessive risk to the institution. Banks were barred from giving golden parachutes to departing executives and deducting some executive pay for tax purposes.

Banks that got bailout funds also paid out millions for home security systems, private chauffeured cars, and club dues. Some banks even paid for financial advisers. Wells Fargo of San Francisco, which took $25 billion in taxpayer bailout money, gave its top executives up to $20,000 each to pay personal financial planners.

At Bank of New York Mellon Corp., chief executive Robert P. Kelly's stipend for financial planning services came to $66,748, on top of his $975,000 salary and $7.5 million bonus. His car and driver cost $178,879. Kelly also received $846,000 in relocation expenses, including help selling his home in Pittsburgh and purchasing one in Manhattan, the company said.

Goldman Sachs' tab for leased cars and drivers ran as high as $233,000 per executive. The firm told its shareholders this year that financial counseling and chauffeurs are important in giving executives more time to focus on their jobs.

JPMorgan Chase chairman James Dimon ran up a $211,182 private jet travel tab last year when his family lived in Chicago and he was commuting to New York. The company got $25 billion in bailout funds.

Banks cite security to justify personal use of company aircraft for some executives. But Rep. Brad Sherman, a California Democrat, questioned that rationale, saying executives visit many locations more vulnerable than the security-conscious U.S. commercial air terminals.

Sherman, a member of the House Financial Services Committee, said pay excesses undermine development of good bank economic policies and promote an escalating pay spiral among competing financial institutions - something particularly hard to take when banks then ask for rescue money.

He wants them to come before Congress, like the automakers did, and spell out their spending plans for bailout funds.

"The tougher we are on the executives that come to Washington, the fewer will come for a bailout," he said.

By Associated Press Writers Frank Bass and Rita Beamish
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Old 04-05-13, 12:37 PM   #105
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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and still remains at "lots" even if these workers were thrown a bone in the form of higher wages.
So who sets the limit or proper ratio? Can you define what is enough profit vs employee pay for every business?

(edited to clarify, I am not asking about any entity that has received a gov't bailout, if you are, that is a different situation entirely)

Last edited by 4KRG; 04-05-13 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 04-05-13, 01:15 PM   #106
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2259233.html

10 Companies Where CEO Pay Is Seriously Out Of Whack

The Huffington Post | By Bonnie Kavoussi
Posted: 12/11/2012 10:28 am EST

Are CEOs hundreds of times more valuable than their employees? Corporate boards seem to think so.

In past decades, as CEO pay has skyrocketed, worker pay has all but stagnated. That's created an economy in which CEOs can earn an average of 231 times more than their employees, as they did last year, according an analysis by the Economic Policy Institute. (For reference, CEOs earned just 29 times more in 1978.)

At some companies, CEO pay is especially out of whack, according to PayScale, which analyzed pay at the country's 50 biggest public companies last year. The compensation website compared CEO pay to the median pay of the typical full-time worker to compile the list. The entire methodology can be found at their website.

Here are the major companies where CEOs last year made at least 322 times more than their workers:

10. PepsiCo CEO-to-employee pay ratio: 322:1 CEO: Indra K. Nooyi

9. United Technologies Corporation CEO-to-employee pay ratio: 326:1 CEO: Louis R. Chênevert

8. AT&T CEO-to-employee pay ratio: 342:1 CEO: Randall L. Stephenson

7. IBM CEO-to-employee pay ratio: 349:1 CEO until December 2011: Samuel J. Palmisano

6. Medco CEO-to-employee pay ratio: 431:1 CEO until Express Scripts acquired Medco in 2012: David B. Snow, Jr.

5. CVS Caremark Corporation CEO-to-employee pay ratio: 456:1 CEO until last year: Thomas M. Ryan

4. McKesson CEO-to-employee pay ratio: 537:1 CEO: John H. Hammergren

3. Verizon CEO-to-employee pay ratio: 613:1 CEO until June 2011: Ivan G. Seidenberg

2. Walmart Stores CEO-to-employee ratio: 717:1 CEO: Michael T. Duke

1. UnitedHealth Group CEO-to-employee pay ratio: 1,737:1 CEO: Stephen J. Hemsley
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Old 04-05-13, 01:23 PM   #107
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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A majority, obviously.
OK, if you say so. Though I certainly don't see it as "obvious".

The Health Care issue is an example. The vast majority of people have health care. And the vast majority of them get "good priced" group coverage through their employer which does not take into consideration pre-existing conditions or have other underwriting.

Yet changes are being made to the entire system for the main argument of the very small group that has no coverage.

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That isn't really the question. The questions are, why is it "broke" in the first place? And what should the "fix" be?
Your assuming it is broke. Who decides that? And what standards are you using? If we don't have zero unemployment do we assume it is broke? Or if not every single person who wakes up in the morning is not getting $15.00 per hour do we assume it is broke?

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http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500395_162-4680508.html

$1.6B Of Bank Bailout Went To Execs

By Associated Press Writers Frank Bass and Rita Beamish
Never said money didn't go to Exec's. But who argued that we should bailout companies so we can give money to Exec's? No one. The main argument was "these are to big to fail". And while the sheer financial impact would be felt the "big" was also the number of "regular" employees that would be dumped on an already struggling job market.

There was no need to bailout Exec's. They had money/retirement and options. You had to pay them to stay with a potential sinking ship. Should bailout money have gone to Exec's? If you agree with the bailout, then I don't really think there was a choice.

I'm not sure I agreed with the bailouts at the time. But since many companies have recovered, paid back the Fed's (or are in the process of doing so) maybe I was wrong.
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Old 04-05-13, 01:33 PM   #108
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2259233.html

10 Companies Where CEO Pay Is Seriously Out Of Whack

The Huffington Post | By Bonnie Kavoussi
Posted: 12/11/2012 10:28 am EST

Are CEOs hundreds of times more valuable than their employees? Corporate boards seem to think so.
I don't ever understand this argument. Pay is pay. Companies come up with their own system. They should be free to do so.

Much of my pay is because I've been with my company so long. Is that fair? If my peer is doing exactly the same job as me, shouldn't we be paid the same? Yes he gets less as he hasn't been with the company as long (and not benefited from as many yearly raises).

And that is a very good argument for people not working for corporate America. My bro-in-law is like that. He refuses to "work for the man". Good for him and he makes a nice living being his own boss. Heck, my Dad was more that way. Having his own business. Me? I preferred the steady (if less money), paid vacations, set schedule, opportunities to do something different.

Everyone want to sit on the bench and say it "should be done his way". I say, good for you (them). Now go do that start up company and run it the way you see fit. If it works, attracts good workers, you can bet it will be copied.
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Old 04-05-13, 01:50 PM   #109
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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But I don't believe a private business should be in business to make sure everyone can earn a living. They make widgets. And they should not be forced to take on any more than that. If the company is following all employment rules and the job is only a basic job, the person should get a basic income. If that is not enough for the individual, there are options in the form of bettering themselves or seeking help from the state, their church, etc.
And that is what is at debate here. These McDonalds workers are saying "can you honestly look us in the eye and tell us that we are receiving a fair wage?" A lot of people can because they don't give a shit about the people that work for them. They are just sprockets in the widget machine. But some do and some will listen and come to realizations.

By the way, the woman on TV last night representing the McD workers had statistics that the average age of a McD worker in New York was like 28. Its not like these are teenagers.

And if thats the only gig in town these people are qualified to do, then they should make $7,8,9 an hour forever?
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Old 04-05-13, 01:57 PM   #110
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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Agreed. Though I'm pretty indifferent on MW. I'm not sure it's needed...but I'm ok with it so long as their are exceptions based on the job.



It sucks to lose a high paying job. But it does happen. And all over.

My best friend was making $75-90k. But his job went automated. He simply can't get that now for that job. Should he get $80,000 at McDonalds because that is what he was making before? Silliness.

As a side note, he is being stubborn. He could get a job tomorrow making $25,000-$30,000. But he won't as he is hung up on HIS worth. Not the job.

I've mentioned before, anyone that puts their livelihood in someone's hands (or in a companies hands) is not doing themselves any favors and taking a gamble. I've been with my company 24 years and likely will be till I retire (hopefully). However I've had to take on new jobs and new departments and learn new things to achieve what I have. In addition, I keep an external résumé up today and every couple months call or have lunch with friends who work for other companies. You never know.

And FYI I flunked out of high school. And struggled mightily and paid much of my own way (MW) to get a four year degree in a very quick 6 years...lol. So I'm in no way "special".
My example had nothing to do with taking less pay. It had to do with entire communities that HAVE NO JOBS except service jobs. The steel workers are not working them. They are all retired. It's the new poor that have live in these shells of past manufacturing glory. They should not be relegated to $7 an hour because thats the only job in town for people with their qualifications.
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Old 04-05-13, 02:00 PM   #111
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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So who sets the limit or proper ratio? Can you define what is enough profit vs employee pay for every business?

(edited to clarify, I am not asking about any entity that has received a gov't bailout, if you are, that is a different situation entirely)
No, it's a ridiculous question. Obviously, its a subjective answer. You are either a greedy bastard and has no issue exploiting his workers or you are not.
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Old 04-05-13, 02:31 PM   #112
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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Originally Posted by inri222 View Post
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2259233.html

10 Companies Where CEO Pay Is Seriously Out Of Whack

2. Walmart Stores CEO-to-employee ratio: 717:1 CEO: Michael T. Duke
Shocked to read the guy that runs one of the largest companies in the world earns so much more than the average walmart worker.
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Old 04-05-13, 03:26 PM   #113
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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Old 04-05-13, 03:29 PM   #114
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

^And that right there is why middle class families still struggle to make ends meet. Wages aren't rising with inflation and productivity. But, no, it's because of cell phones and cable bills.
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Old 04-05-13, 03:30 PM   #115
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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Not arguing that the average worker shouldn't be paid more, but what does that have to do with a CEO pay increase?
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Old 04-05-13, 03:31 PM   #116
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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And that is what is at debate here. These McDonalds workers are saying "can you honestly look us in the eye and tell us that we are receiving a fair wage?" A lot of people can because they don't give a shit about the people that work for them. They are just sprockets in the widget machine. But some do and some will listen and come to realizations.

By the way, the woman on TV last night representing the McD workers had statistics that the average age of a McD worker in New York was like 28. Its not like these are teenagers.

And if thats the only gig in town these people are qualified to do, then they should make $7,8,9 an hour forever?

Correct.

I also posted earlier that MCD's and general fast food gig positions are NOT being filled by freakin' teenagers. I also agree some posters on here need to visit a fast food joint that isn't out in the burbs. Get into a metropolitan or urban area and you will see the various age brackets that lean toward older workers staffing them.
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Old 04-05-13, 03:44 PM   #117
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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And that is what is at debate here. These McDonalds workers are saying "can you honestly look us in the eye and tell us that we are receiving a fair wage?" A lot of people can because they don't give a shit about the people that work for them. They are just sprockets in the widget machine. But some do and some will listen and come to realizations.

By the way, the woman on TV last night representing the McD workers had statistics that the average age of a McD worker in New York was like 28. Its not like these are teenagers.

And if thats the only gig in town these people are qualified to do, then they should make $7,8,9 an hour forever?
1st....again, its not "is it a fair wage". It is, "is it a fair wage for the job I'm doing". In how automated FF is. How you need no education or any experience to work at a FF place, how can you possibly argue anyone should get paid more for working there?

2nd...your trying to spout sound bites. "Corporations don't care about their workers". Of course they do. It is almost always cheaper to keep the worker you have than have to hire another. Remember, workers are your brand. Now if that brand is "low" like a McDonald's or Wally World, than you can't possibly be expected to be paid like a Ruth Chris or Neiman Marcus per would be.

3rd....why is that the only gig in town that people are qualified to do? Though to answer your questions directly if they plan on flipping burgers at McDonald's forever than yes, they should be paid the rate for flipping burgers at McDonald's.

More to the point, why is the sole responsibility of earning a living with the company? The employee has no responsibility? If I had to go work for McDonalds tomorrow to flip burgers I do everything in my power to be the best, show up on time, offer to work the late shift, cover for the french fry guy when needed. Than after a few months, I'd ask what I needed to do to be promoted to lead in the kitchen. Than store manager. And then if McDonald's would assist me in opening my own place....

Or if that is the only place they are qualified to work, why aren't they getting other qualifications so they can work else where? Who is forcing them to only be qualified to flip burgers. Since you need no qualifications to flip burgers at McDonald's are you really arguing they should be highly paid just for breathing air?

Yes, I'm pro-business, but I'm MORE pro-employee. Work at McDonald's use them for a year while you go to school, learn a trade, or whatever then dump them.

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My example had nothing to do with taking less pay. It had to do with entire communities that HAVE NO JOBS except service jobs. The steel workers are not working them. They are all retired. It's the new poor that have live in these shells of past manufacturing glory. They should not be relegated to $7 an hour because thats the only job in town for people with their qualifications.
Why do they have to live in that town? Why can they not get other qualifications?

And I say that through personal experience and knowing it is not easy. I've gone through three tough changes (that I wanted to do) in my company. I've moved twice. And currently I'm not competitive for another promotion because I'm not willing to move again. At this time. Yet I continue to learn new things for hopefully in the not to distant future, I will be mobile and open up that option.

Heck, most people around here know, but the job I currently have requires me to be away from home for 200+ days a year. And when I'm away I work 72 hours per week. So I truly understand that you sometimes have to do more than walk down the block to get that good paying job.
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Old 04-05-13, 04:03 PM   #118
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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^And that right there is why middle class families still struggle to make ends meet. Wages aren't rising with inflation and productivity.
Sure they are. In China, India, and Mexico.
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Old 04-05-13, 04:50 PM   #119
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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Correct.

I also posted earlier that MCD's and general fast food gig positions are NOT being filled by freakin' teenagers. I also agree some posters on here need to visit a fast food joint that isn't out in the burbs. Get into a metropolitan or urban area and you will see the various age brackets that lean toward older workers staffing them.
And what does age have to do with it? You cannot age discriminate for a job. Now if that older worker can show they are more dependable, more potential, or has some transferable skill, more power to them.

But again, I'm not seeing requiring a company to give raises based on age.

A while back a Taco Bell opened on what had to be a Million dollar+ piece of land based on location. I went in there a couple times and yes, mostly adults. Especially for lunch. And I always rec'd excellent service. If they are getting paid more because they can offer something others cannot, I applaud both them and Taco Bell. I've gotten excellent service from "kids". So it should be the job they do. But at the end of the day, they are still selling $3.00 Taco's. Just how "awesome" can you be at that?
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Old 04-05-13, 05:06 PM   #120
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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And what does age have to do with it? You cannot age discriminate for a job. Now if that older worker can show they are more dependable, more potential, or has some transferable skill, more power to them.

But again, I'm not seeing requiring a company to give raises based on age.

A while back a Taco Bell opened on what had to be a Million dollar+ piece of land based on location. I went in there a couple times and yes, mostly adults. Especially for lunch. And I always rec'd excellent service. If they are getting paid more because they can offer something others cannot, I applaud both them and Taco Bell. I've gotten excellent service from "kids". So it should be the job they do. But at the end of the day, they are still selling $3.00 Taco's. Just how "awesome" can you be at that?

There's an age discrepancy along with the majority of fast food workers being actual poor people filling in those gaps for a pittance. There are so many variables.

What rubs me the wrong way is the apathetic attitude toward these people as if some of them can just pause their life to go get an education and better their life. It's a wonderful fairytale, but some cannot just do that. Yes, you may have done it and others have done it, but you don't know what access or connections, if any, they had. The same with those that wish they could rise up but can't for whatever reason. There are soooooooo many variables involved. Shoulda woulda coulda.
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Old 04-05-13, 06:06 PM   #121
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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There's an age discrepancy along with the majority of fast food workers being actual poor people filling in those gaps for a pittance. There are so many variables.

What rubs me the wrong way is the apathetic attitude toward these people as if some of them can just pause their life to go get an education and better their life. It's a wonderful fairytale, but some cannot just do that. Yes, you may have done it and others have done it, but you don't know what access or connections, if any, they had. The same with those that wish they could rise up but can't for whatever reason. There are soooooooo many variables involved. Shoulda woulda coulda.
With so many variables then the answer can't be as simple as "just pay everyone $15.00 per hour".

Personally I simply don't believe my path has been set. I was told by a Dr. and wife, and friends, and parents I was told old to start running. Now I run 2-3 5k races per month and in the best health of my life (including losing a 100 lbs).

The point? The only limits people have are those they put on themselves. It's not a "story book" it's hard. But I hear a lot of excuses, I don't want to move, I can't do well in school, I don't want to go that far for a job, I don't want to travel, I don't have time to better myself, I'm worth more than that.

And btw, I'm all for lending a hand. Many businesses will pay for schooling or additional education. Or there are grants and loans. Or I'm good with my tax money going to help with job skills. Or even paying someone while they intern with a plumber, electrician, mechanic or other trade with tax money.

But I'm pretty set that the answer is not to force private business to pay everyone a lot of money for even the most basic of jobs.
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Old 04-05-13, 06:22 PM   #122
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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Originally Posted by cpgator View Post
Not arguing that the average worker shouldn't be paid more, but what does that have to do with a CEO pay increase?
Because if a CEOs pay can go up so ridiculously high then the average workers pay can go up some as well.
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Old 04-05-13, 06:31 PM   #123
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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Originally Posted by RagingBull80 View Post
Because if a CEOs pay can go up so ridiculously high then the average workers pay can go up some as well.
No, see, the CEOs have to make that much money because they create jobs with it, which stimulates the economy and ahhh nevermind I can't say that with a straight face.
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Old 04-05-13, 08:25 PM   #124
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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Originally Posted by RagingBull80 View Post
Because if a CEOs pay can go up so ridiculously high then the average workers pay can go up some as well.
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Originally Posted by Rockmjd23 View Post
No, see, the CEOs have to make that much money because they create jobs with it, which stimulates the economy and ahhh nevermind I can't say that with a straight face.
Supply and demand....a lot of people can be "average" workers. Few can be CEO's of Fortune 500 type companies. Though there are fewer of those positions.

Again, if the average worker can bet better pay elsewhere, they should go get it. The "average" CEO can get paid more (if not paid appropriately).
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Old 04-05-13, 08:40 PM   #125
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post
With so many variables then the answer can't be as simple as "just pay everyone $15.00 per hour".

Personally I simply don't believe my path has been set. I was told by a Dr. and wife, and friends, and parents I was told old to start running. Now I run 2-3 5k races per month and in the best health of my life (including losing a 100 lbs).

The point? The only limits people have are those they put on themselves. It's not a "story book" it's hard. But I hear a lot of excuses, I don't want to move, I can't do well in school, I don't want to go that far for a job, I don't want to travel, I don't have time to better myself, I'm worth more than that.

And btw, I'm all for lending a hand. Many businesses will pay for schooling or additional education. Or there are grants and loans. Or I'm good with my tax money going to help with job skills. Or even paying someone while they intern with a plumber, electrician, mechanic or other trade with tax money.

But I'm pretty set that the answer is not to force private business to pay everyone a lot of money for even the most basic of jobs.
Also, I never said it should be up to 15$, but more than $8-$9 or whatever it is now, most definitely.

Limits that people put on themselves is just one factor, but not the deciding factor, because in some cases it goes way beyond that, but if you're an outsider looking in, then you will never know. It's pretty easy to say "do this and do that and why don't you do it this way," etc.

You think someone that has kids or other obligations can intern somewhere for free? Those are the gigs that are best served for the 18-19 year kids right out of high school. Real world workers need to get paid.
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