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Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

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Old 04-04-13, 05:40 PM   #51
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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Originally Posted by cdollaz View Post
Cable, cell phones, instant gratification with purchases, people buying stupid shit, etc.

I'm not stating an opinion one way or the other, but people spend a lot more money than they used to, and a good chunk of it is stuff they don't actually need. Many families could probably actually live on one income if they did what it takes to do so. My family could, but we have chosen the advantages that come along with being a dual-income family.
More like wages haven't kept up with inflation. In the 1960s you could buy a new house, new car, have four kids. Buy all the kids cell phones and ipods and Levis. X Boxes and Playstations. Have cable with premiuim channels. Own a camper. Goe to Disney World. Have season tickets to sports teams. Eat out and go to movies once a week. Price tag: $75 a week income. We did. Some of those things didn't exist but we had the 60s equivilant. My old man retired in '83 making $9.38 an hour the most he ever made. On top of that we had medical insurance. The old man bought a shitload of savings bonds. He was an auto mechanic for Sears with 8th grade education. When he retired he received his profit sharing, which was $40,000. When he died in '98 the 40K, which he never touched, grew to 210K.
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Old 04-04-13, 06:32 PM   #52
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

Well, if they're going to up the requirements for working there, I say they should up the wage too:

http://www.businessinsider.com/mcdon...-job-ad-2013-4

Quote:
An ad for a cashier job at a McDonald's franchise in Massachusetts had some lofty requirements.

The Winchendon, Massachusetts, restaurant was hiring a cashier and asking for candidates to have a Bachelor's degree and between one and two years of experience, reports Paul Bedard at The Washington Examiner.
of course if you read to the bottom of the article the manager says it's not true, but hey, it's making the rounds.

McCrap, huh?
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Old 04-04-13, 06:49 PM   #53
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

People generally get paid what they're worth. If they can get $15 an hour, they're worth it. If they can't, they're not. Might as well try.
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Old 04-04-13, 06:52 PM   #54
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

Why does anyone think they should be able to make a living working at a fast food joint? Short of being management you're better off looking somewhere else. I'm certainly not against these folks getting a boost in pay (though I feel $15 is ridiculous) and I don't mind paying a bit more for my burger but most people go to the McD's of the world for cheap food. I think these folks need a reality check if they think fast food is a career.
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Old 04-04-13, 07:52 PM   #55
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
You don't think McDonalds mastered their efficiencies a LONG time ago? This is about franchise owners taking as much profit as mathematically possible.
No. No I don't. Any time a company thinks they have "mastered" anything, they have just doomed themselves to failure.

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Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
And this attitude of "fuck 'em, they accept it, if they want to earn more get a new job" is infuriating. There is a baseline of human dignity in America and it ain't $7.25 an hour.
Seriously? Dignity? What are you talking about? We are talking about EARNING the money. Just saying "hey I'm alive, pay me $15.00 per hour" is the real BS.

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Originally Posted by 4KRG View Post
Some yes, but innovation, efficiency and newer cheaper ways of doing things continue to evolve. I have a family member that has been with MCD for quite some time. You would be surprised at how many new things they come up with year after year.

you say that like it is a negative thing
And take a look at the opposite. Kodak for example. "Oh, no. We are good with our film product. We have that down and it is a money maker. We have all the efficiency down".

Exactly...hummm...lets see...maximize profits, open more stores, hire more people. Terrible thing that profit, just terrible.

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People generally get paid what they're worth. If they can get $15 an hour, they're worth it. If they can't, they're not. Might as well try.
Sure, I agree....but same with the business. If there are people waiting in line to get hired, might as well give them a try. People get paid what they are worth, businesses pay what people earn....it works both ways.
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Old 04-04-13, 08:04 PM   #56
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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Why does anyone think they should be able to make a living working at a fast food joint?
Counterargument: why does any employer think they should be able to obtain labor by paying a wage that doesn't allow that labor to survive?
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Old 04-04-13, 08:11 PM   #57
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

Because it is the MINIMUM wage and not a survivable wage?
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Old 04-04-13, 08:13 PM   #58
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

Good, McDonald's can afford it.

The minimum wage is the real problem here though.
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Old 04-04-13, 08:15 PM   #59
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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Because it is the MINIMUM wage and not a survivable wage?
But you should be able to survive on minimum wage.
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Old 04-04-13, 08:20 PM   #60
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post
Sure, I agree....but same with the business. If there are people waiting in line to get hired, might as well give them a try. People get paid what they are worth, businesses pay what people earn....it works both ways.
That's correct. However society has decided that some people should get paid more than they are economically worth so they can live at least a certain lifestyle. And then parts of that same society say that high-level business people aren't worth what they can manage to get paid. But sports and entertainment industry people are. It's difficult to reconcile the whole thing.
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Old 04-04-13, 08:21 PM   #61
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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Originally Posted by Dr Mabuse View Post
The only way the working class will ever get a decent wage, not extravagant, just a living wage, is if they make the wealthy pay it to them. Period.

A shame so few are involved in this.
It's interesting reading the comments on Bloomberg. Many are critical of people working at McD's and have absolutely no clue as to why all these workers can't just find a $100,000/yr job. What they don't realize is McD's probably has one of the most educated workforce in the country.

You'd never know it by the skill requirements, but many are very educated and just had their lives fucked by the millions of job layoffs around the country, the banking industry, and healthcare changes.

It's amazing how naive many Americans are about jobs and how their lifespan has changed over the last few decades.

It's also rather sad how fellow Americans can be so cruel to others who don't even make $9/hr and accuse them of somehow failing. This may be true for a small minority, but US Stats are reporting the US Educated populations increasing every single year...along with a nice student loan debt.

If anything, we have an over-educated underpaid workforce.
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Old 04-04-13, 08:21 PM   #62
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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Originally Posted by RagingBull80 View Post
But you should be able to survive on minimum wage.
Personally disagree. MW jobs should be entry jobs. High School kids jobs. A 2nd job. No one should think a career of a MW job.

I don't think it realistic for a family of four to live on, buy a home, save for retirement on MW earner.

I'm not even sure we need a MW anymore. There are exceptions (tip earners for example). But that is another discussion.
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Old 04-04-13, 08:32 PM   #63
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

Most people don't go for minimum wage jobs as their first choice. MW jobs are a result of our society taking advantage of a demand for money to survive, and taking advantage of people overall. As we all know--or should know--the economy is getting worse. So, it's either you work at a MW job or get nothing or be on the street. When you have a family, it's pretty difficult to say, "Ok, kids, let's hit the streets. I'm holding out for a higher-paying job like everyone on DVD Talk says I should!"
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Old 04-04-13, 08:36 PM   #64
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
It's interesting reading the comments on Bloomberg. Many are critical of people working at McD's and have absolutely no clue as to why all these workers can't just find a $100,000/yr job. What they don't realize is McD's probably has one of the most educated workforce in the country.

You'd never know it by the skill requirements, but many are very educated and just had their lives fucked by the millions of job layoffs around the country, the banking industry, and healthcare changes.

It's amazing how naive many Americans are about jobs and how their lifespan has changed over the last few decades.

It's also rather sad how fellow Americans can be so cruel to others who don't even make $9/hr and accuse them of somehow failing. This may be true for a small minority, but US Stats are reporting the US Educated populations increasing every single year...along with a nice student loan debt.

If anything, we have an over-educated underpaid workforce.
Maybe....as a personal, counter example,

My wife was a travel agent for many a year. But when we had kids it was cheaper for her to stay at home rather then use day care. So she was out of the workforce for 12+. During that time, she did turn her associates degree into a four year degree. As the kids reached pre-teen she started working part time again. Secretary at the church, assistant to the principle at the high school, that time thing.

Then as she could work more hours she worked for a financial company. She was an assistant to 4-6 sales folks. Again a "non-professional" job. Set schedules, made sure paperwork was done correctly, laws were followed, that type thing. She was working about 30 hours a week and making about $13,000 a year.

This year, the financial company wanted to cut her hours in half. I told her "time to find a real job". She applied for about 10 different jobs with about six different fortune 500 type companies. She was offered 3 different positions. The one she took pays $25,000 per year working 40 hours per week with occasional overtime to be added to that. She also has benefits including ability to contribute to a very good 401k with some matching depending on profits. After 4 years with the company she will be vested in the retirement plan (a non-contribution plan, almost unheard of today).

Technically it is a non-professional position, but has interactions with customers. In a 12-18 months she will be competitive (thanks to her 4 year degree) for a professional position that starts about $36,000. Or she could go in another direction as it is a big company.

She would hardly be considered "skilled" as basically being out of the job market for 15ish years. But she did earn a degree. She stayed current on the very basics like Window, Office, etc.

Of course I don't think finding a job is easy. But I also don't think just lining up for a job gets you a career.
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Old 04-04-13, 09:01 PM   #65
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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you say that like it is a negative thing
Jesus Christ.
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Old 04-04-13, 09:02 PM   #66
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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Originally Posted by cdollaz View Post
Cable, cell phones, instant gratification with purchases, people buying stupid shit, etc.

I'm not stating an opinion one way or the other, but people spend a lot more money than they used to, and a good chunk of it is stuff they don't actually need. Many families could probably actually live on one income if they did what it takes to do so. My family could, but we have chosen the advantages that come along with being a dual-income family.
Try again.
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Old 04-04-13, 09:02 PM   #67
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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People generally get paid what they're worth. If they can get $15 an hour, they're worth it. If they can't, they're not. Might as well try.
No they don't. What horseshit.
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Old 04-04-13, 09:07 PM   #68
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet View Post
I understand this objection, but to be blunt, these people aren't going to starve if they can no longer afford to eat at McDonald's.

And the fact that they will no longer be able to afford to eat at McDonald's is a dubious proposition. Companies love to assert that prices will have to go up if they pay their front-line employees a little more.
I wasn't really arguing these points, but rather was pointing out there are potential consequences, and that they would affect the very people we supposedly need to assist.
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Old 04-04-13, 09:13 PM   #69
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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I wasn't really arguing these points, but rather was pointing out there are potential consequences, and that they would affect the very people we supposedly need to assist.
Asinine.
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Old 04-04-13, 09:15 PM   #70
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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Counterargument: why does any employer think they should be able to obtain labor by paying a wage that doesn't allow that labor to survive?
Because they won't have that labor after they die?
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Old 04-04-13, 09:17 PM   #71
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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Asinine.
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No they don't. What horseshit.
Tracer Bullet,

You may want to think about taking some time off if this is the way you're responding to other members.
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Old 04-04-13, 09:54 PM   #72
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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Counterargument: why does any employer think they should be able to obtain labor by paying a wage that doesn't allow that labor to survive?
Good question.

Employers are milking the system. They relish externalities. In this case, the externality is welfare (food stamps, housing assistance, etc.) provided by American taxpayers.

Why should taxpayers be forced to make up the difference (living wage - minimum wage) when corporations are making huge profits?

The joke is on taxpayers, and corporate aristocrats are laughing all the way to the bank.
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Old 04-04-13, 10:04 PM   #73
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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Employers are milking the system. They relish externalities. In this case, the externality is welfare (food stamps, housing assistance, etc.) provided by American taxpayers.

Why should taxpayers be forced to make up the difference (living wage - minimum wage) when corporations are making huge profits?

The joke is on taxpayers, and corporate aristocrats are laughing all the way to the bank.
That's true, but what would you do to eliminate the welfare and assistance programs? It's the tax-paying public that has decided that the workers are worth a certain amount, not business. So who should pay the difference to get them the income the public has decided they deserve?
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Old 04-04-13, 10:55 PM   #74
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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People generally get paid what they're worth. If they can get $15 an hour, they're worth it. If they can't, they're not. Might as well try.
False.

Any given person is capable of working a multitude of jobs. And when people select a career, salary is only one factor that they consider. To provide a concrete example, women tend to gravitate toward jobs that pay less, but provide more security. Historically, they have also been discriminated against by men with greater political power. So today women make less money than men, NOT because they are worth less, but due to choice and human bias (among other things).

The bottom line is that human thinking -- knowledge, motivations, value judgments, etc. -- and human systems are complex, flawed, and somewhat arbitrary.
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Old 04-04-13, 10:59 PM   #75
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Re: Fast Food Workers Strike in NYC. What do we want??? $15 an hour!!!

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That's true, but what would you do to eliminate the welfare and assistance programs? It's the tax-paying public that has decided that the workers are worth a certain amount, not business. So who should pay the difference to get them the income the public has decided they deserve?
The employer is the most proximate beneficiary of the employee's physical and mental well-being (compared to the average local, regional, or national taxpayer), so the employer should pay the living wage.
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