Release List Reviews Shop Join News DVD Giveaways Video Games Advertise
DVD Reviews | Theatrical Reviews | Price Search Buy Stuff Here
DVD Talk
DVD Reviews DVD Talk Headlines HD Reviews


Add to My Yahoo! - RSS 2.0 - RSS 2.0 - DVD Talk Podcast RSS -


Go Back   DVD Talk Forum > General Discussions > Other Talk > Religion, Politics and World Events

Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-21-12, 03:21 AM   #51
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: The Appian Way by way of Birmingham, AL
Posts: 2,171
re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

If Zimmerman killed this kid for no reason well damn him. But if he did shoot him in self defense and if the head photo is real, maybe some parents need to take a long hard look at themselves in the mirror and confront the fact that they have to control their kids better. No, you will not dress a certain way. No, you will not behave a certain way. Because finaly there are consequences and shite can happen. And I honestly don't think its racial. Does anyone doubt Eminem, the way he's often dressed, wouldn't or doesn't have a problem when strolling around? And yes, finally, I have an issue with Zimmerman walking into a problem after he was told not to by law officials.
__________________
"One more anal-probing gyro-pyro levitating ectoplasm alien anti-matter story and I'm going to take out my gun and shoot somebody." - Fox Mulder The X-Files
DVD Profiler

Last edited by JesseCuster; 04-21-12 at 03:26 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-12, 06:00 AM   #52
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,315
re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmansir View Post
I read an article a few days ago saying that many Florida based defense attorneys they contacted said the state appeared to have a very weak case. They quoted one who was 15-0 in acquittals in self-defense cases that said under Florida law it doesn't matter who started a fight, all that matters is that at the moment he used deadly force the defendant reasonably feared for his life.
That's insane. Are there exemptions to the "it doesn't matter who started it, what circumstances led up to it" part of the law?

If I slap my girlfriend around and she picks up a knife, I can grab a lamp and bash her skull in?

Exemptions for crime?
Guy holds up liquor store with gun. Clerk is scared for his life and pulls gun. Holdup guy becomes scared for his life and shoots clerk. Obvious self defense since the holdup man was scared the clerk was going to kill him.

It would appear then also, Martin could have hid behind a bush, ambushed Zimmerman, saw Zimmerman had a gun, became afraid he might get shot, so beat Zimmerman's head against the ground until he was dead, claim self defense under the law because circumstances don't matter, what does matter is that Martin was in fear of his life when he saw the gun.

It can't be that black and white, yet there are 15 precident cases that support it is.

Last edited by rw2516; 04-21-12 at 06:29 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-12, 07:58 AM   #53
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 2,276
re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Quote:
Originally Posted by rw2516 View Post
That's insane. Are there exemptions to the "it doesn't matter who started it, what circumstances led up to it" part of the law?

If I slap my girlfriend around and she picks up a knife, I can grab a lamp and bash her skull in?

Exemptions for crime?
Guy holds up liquor store with gun. Clerk is scared for his life and pulls gun. Holdup guy becomes scared for his life and shoots clerk. Obvious self defense since the holdup man was scared the clerk was going to kill him.

It would appear then also, Martin could have hid behind a bush, ambushed Zimmerman, saw Zimmerman had a gun, became afraid he might get shot, so beat Zimmerman's head against the ground until he was dead, claim self defense under the law because circumstances don't matter, what does matter is that Martin was in fear of his life when he saw the gun.

It can't be that black and white, yet there are 15 precident cases that support it is.
This would be an assumption that he saw the gun and/or that Zimmerman actually had it pulled on him before the actual altercation took place though. I don't think we know for certain that this is the case.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-12, 08:39 AM   #54
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,315
re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schloob1 View Post
This would be an assumption that he saw the gun and/or that Zimmerman actually had it pulled on him before the actual altercation took place though. I don't think we know for certain that this is the case.
I haven't heard anything that this is the case either. Just a what if example to plug into the Florida law that "under the law it doesn't matter who started the fight, all that matters is that under the law there is a reasonable fear for your life at the moment you use deadly force".
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-12, 03:11 PM   #55
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Signal Hill, CA
Posts: 3,012
re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Quote:
Originally Posted by rw2516 View Post
That's insane. Are there exemptions to the "it doesn't matter who started it, what circumstances led up to it" part of the law?

If I slap my girlfriend around and she picks up a knife, I can grab a lamp and bash her skull in?

Exemptions for crime?
Guy holds up liquor store with gun. Clerk is scared for his life and pulls gun. Holdup guy becomes scared for his life and shoots clerk. Obvious self defense since the holdup man was scared the clerk was going to kill him.
Your girlfriend would be bruised and battered from you slapping her which probably can't be easily determined because you proceeded to bash her skull in with a lamp. You don't have a mark on you? You are going to jail. (You could have also fled from the confrontation instead of picking up that lamp...)

Are you serious about the liquor store example? The guy who holds up a liquor store with a gun is already committing an armed robbery.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-12, 04:41 PM   #56
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,315
re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franchot View Post
Your girlfriend would be bruised and battered from you slapping her which probably can't be easily determined because you proceeded to bash her skull in with a lamp. You don't have a mark on you? You are going to jail. (You could have also fled from the confrontation instead of picking up that lamp...)

Are you serious about the liquor store example? The guy who holds up a liquor store with a gun is already committing an armed robbery.
The Florida lawyers are stating it doesn't matter who starts a confrontation. If the person who kills is in fear of their life at that moment, it's self defense under stand your ground.

I'm asking what circumstances are relevant, if any, leading up to the killing, since whoever initiated the confrontation appears to be moot in Florida.

Can someone committing a crime claim self defense in Florida? Unclear. You can commit the crime of assault & battery by punching someone in the face and then kill them lawfully under stand your ground when the person you assaulted gets the better of you.

What if two armed guys shoot each other, survive, and claim stand your ground. No crime committed?

On the news it's been stated that under the law you can chase someone down and shoot them. In the back supposedly.

Also on the news, you can use deadly force to protect someone else's property. If you see someone carrying a tv out of your neighbors house at 2am you can go over and shoot them.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-12, 04:59 PM   #57
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,315
re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBigDave View Post
ABC News has a photo from the crime scene showing Zimmerman's bloody head.

NSFW:
Legal talking heads on Fox News are questioning the authenticity of the photo. Supposedly the blood trails are running the wrong way, inconsistent with someone on their back.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-12, 05:36 PM   #58
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Me007gold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 3,122
re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Quote:
Originally Posted by rw2516 View Post
Legal talking heads on Fox News are questioning the authenticity of the photo. Supposedly the blood trails are running the wrong way, inconsistent with someone on their back.

playing devils advocate


It looks like there are some large areas where the blood was "pooled" while he was laying his back, but between the time he stood up and the time the police got there, the blood ran down the correct way
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-12, 07:17 PM   #59
DVD Talk Hero
 
DVD Polizei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 49,751
re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Quote:
Originally Posted by rw2516 View Post
Legal talking heads on Fox News are questioning the authenticity of the photo. Supposedly the blood trails are running the wrong way, inconsistent with someone on their back.
And I would expect nothing less from FOX, because this is an ABC News exclusive.
__________________
Blu-ray Titles: ~1,050 | HD DVD Titles: ~323

"I don't sell airplane parts. I've never sold airplane parts."
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-12, 07:20 PM   #60
DVD Talk Godfather
 
Giantrobo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: South Bay
Posts: 53,829
re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Quote:
Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
And I would expect nothing less from FOX, because this is an ABC News exclusive.
Really? I would expect them to totally support this photo not questioning it at all. From what I hear they are Pro-Zimmerman. But I could have heard that wrong...
__________________
XBOX Gamertag: Giantrobo
On my 4th 360 as of 3.26.10
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-12, 07:29 PM   #61
DVD Talk Hero
 
DVD Polizei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 49,751
re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Well, you have multiple layers of politics going on, and ABC, being rather Liberal, would imply FOX News was aligning themselves with ABC. Of course, I'd expect ABC News--especially MSNBC and Larry O'--to do the same thing if FOX News came out with some exclusive photo.

But I do have to question how ABC News got this instead of FOX News, if FOX was so pro-Zimmerman. Wouldn't the person having the exclusive image give it to the highest bidder? And wouldn't have FOX News scooped that photo up ASAP to prove their point? I would have thought so.
__________________
Blu-ray Titles: ~1,050 | HD DVD Titles: ~323

"I don't sell airplane parts. I've never sold airplane parts."
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-12, 08:58 PM   #62
DVD Talk Hero
 
Th0r S1mpson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 36,439
re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Someone killed someone else who looks like Obama's kid. Which side do YOU think FoxNEWS is going to take?
__________________
You summed it up. It's sad that a thread like that even exists on this site.
-The Questyen
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-12, 09:16 PM   #63
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,610
re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Neither, they're fair and balanced.
__________________
Holy Crap, the perspective makes it look like a cannon! - bfrank

I'll outlive all these skinny bastards whose assholes are so tight they can only crap neutronium. - Mrs. Danger
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-12, 10:09 PM   #64
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Land of the Lobstrosities
Posts: 10,300
re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Quote:
Originally Posted by rw2516 View Post
That's insane. Are there exemptions to the "it doesn't matter who started it, what circumstances led up to it" part of the law?
Here's the story

Quote:
... But many criminal trial lawyers in Orlando see nothing in the special prosecutor's affidavit that would convict Zimmerman.

Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law allows even the original aggressor in a fight to use deadly force - if that person becomes reasonably afraid of being killed or seriously hurt.

Trial lawyer Richard Hornsby has litigated 15 "Stand Your Ground" cases - none of them homicides - and won them all.

Hornsby told CBS News he thinks Corey's affidavit is more significant for what it leaves out than for what it includes.

"The moment George Zimmerman fired that shot is the key question in this entire case," Hornsby said. "Did he reasonably believe he had to fire that shot to defend himself? And the fact (Corey) completely left that out, begs the question, does she not have any evidence to refute his version of the events?" ...
I don't recall the "none of them homicides" caveat, they may have updated the article.

The law states:

Quote:
A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity, and who is attacked in any (...) place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
It seems to me the article misstates the law, but the lawyer's quote appears to back that interpretation up.
__________________
!TRIGGER WARNING!:This post may contain opinions which differ from your own.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-12, 10:30 PM   #65
DVD Talk Hero
 
DVD Polizei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 49,751
re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thor Simpson View Post
Someone killed someone else who looks like Obama's kid. Which side do YOU think FoxNEWS is going to take?
Because of you, I lost half my soda just now. Thanks, Thor!
__________________
Blu-ray Titles: ~1,050 | HD DVD Titles: ~323

"I don't sell airplane parts. I've never sold airplane parts."
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-12, 10:40 PM   #66
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Home again, Big D
Posts: 24,037
re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

I don't understand the law at all. Are a lot of people sitting in jail for "standing their ground" and protecting themselves or their property? I read that the law was based on a case where the individual was protecting his life or property and it took a while before he was cleared. So? Shouldn't every death be investigated?
__________________
Live Free. Dine Well. Drink good beer.

Home Theater Build
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-12, 12:15 AM   #67
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Capitol of the Empire! Center of all Commerce and Culture! Crossroads of Civilization! NEW ROME!!!...aka New York City
Posts: 10,909
re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

The stand your ground law is retarded, and all the new evidence leads me to this conclusion;

Stupid **** wanna be cop Zimmerman should have stayed in his car
__________________
Tommy Ceez may or may not be a moron, but he's OUR possible moron - El Scorcho
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-12, 09:01 AM   #68
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
arminius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Here I Is!
Posts: 6,968
re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy Ceez View Post
The stand your ground law is retarded, and all the new evidence leads me to this conclusion;

Stupid **** wanna be cop Zimmerman should have stayed in his car
__________________
Seek not the favor of the multitude; it is seldom got by honest and lawful means. But seek the testimony of few; and number not voices, but weigh them. I Kant
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-12, 10:54 AM   #69
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
BKenn01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Big Blue Nation!
Posts: 4,496
re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy Ceez View Post
The stand your ground law is retarded, and all the new evidence leads me to this conclusion;

Stupid **** wanna be cop Zimmerman should have stayed in his car
Yes if a fucking douche breaks into your house and you shoot and kill his sorry ass his family should be able to sue you because you know you didnt have to shoot him.

Point is the law is more than what the fucking media is telling you....
__________________
"I hate Conservatives, but I really fucking hate Liberals" - Matt Stone co-creator of South Park
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-12, 12:27 PM   #70
DVD Talk Legend
 
DaveyJoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 17,126
re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Quote:
Originally Posted by BKenn01 View Post
Point is the law is more than what the fucking media is telling you....
It's not like they're hiding it from the viewing public. Go read it on wikipedia if you're so interested in it. Here, I'll even link it for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-12, 12:59 PM   #71
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: US
Posts: 9,597
re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy Ceez View Post
The stand your ground law is retarded, and all the new evidence leads me to this conclusion;

Stupid **** wanna be cop Zimmerman should have stayed in his car
You seem to dismiss the idea that martin likely could have defused this situation just as easily as zimmerman.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-12, 01:15 PM   #72
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Me007gold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 3,122
re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave99 View Post
You seem to dismiss the idea that martin likely could have defused this situation just as easily as zimmerman.
*cue* if Zimmerman's fat racist ass would have stayed in the car, it would have been an issue

  Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-12, 01:19 PM   #73
DVD Talk Godfather
 
Giantrobo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: South Bay
Posts: 53,829
re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave99 View Post
You seem to dismiss the idea that martin likely could have defused this situation just as easily as zimmerman.
How? How do you know he didnt? Maybe he was trying to talk it out and Zimmerman pulled his gun.
Maybe Martin was fighting for HIS life when this stranger approached him armed and ready to not "let one get away". Maybe Martin was afraid of some gun toting stragner who had been following him.

You guys have no problem just believing Zimmerman is the angel. How is that any different from me believing Martin wasn't the initial aggressor? You guys don't allow anyone to give Martin the benefit of doubt. You guys are hypocritical in this area and not even honest enough to admit it.

But hey, that's how Americans rolls.....
__________________
XBOX Gamertag: Giantrobo
On my 4th 360 as of 3.26.10

Last edited by Giantrobo; 04-22-12 at 01:31 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-12, 01:29 PM   #74
DVD Talk Godfather
 
Giantrobo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: South Bay
Posts: 53,829
re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Quote:
Originally Posted by Me007gold View Post
*cue* if Zimmerman's fat racist ass would have stayed in the car, it would have been an issue

*cue*

Martin got what he deserved for being in a Hoodie and in an area where he didn't belong because he was probably up to no good so he viciously attacked Zimmerman for no other reason than shits and giggles because that's what "they" do....

__________________
XBOX Gamertag: Giantrobo
On my 4th 360 as of 3.26.10
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-12, 01:38 PM   #75
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Me007gold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 3,122
re: Unarmed teen gets shot by Zimmerman...[Verdict: Not Guilty] ptII

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post
*cue*

Martin got what he deserved for being in a Hoodie and in an area where he didn't belong because he was probably up to no good so he viciously attacked Zimmerman for no other reason than shits and giggles because that's what "they" do....

No body is saying that!
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:32 PM.


Copyright 2011 DVDTalk.com All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0