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Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

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Old 05-01-12, 10:09 PM   #26
mosquitobite
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Re: 2012 Senate Elections

When does Indiana ever have a voice in a Republican Presidential primary? Our state is always too late to matter.

I think it actually favors Lugar if we have a low turn out - because those will be the zombies that vote for Romney.

High turnout means people are still fighting to let their voice be heard instead of just crowning the media declared "winner" (even though he is FAAAAR short of 1144 delegates).

I think the establishment knows Ron Paul supporters will get out and vote. So they'll make sure to get out and vote as well (some for Lugar). Although I did read somewhere that over 70% of the GOP chairmen in Indiana support Mourdock over Lugar. Not sure where mine stands, but I'll guess Lugar since he's [my GOP chairman] a turncoat!

I get at *LEAST* (no exaggeration here) 3 mailers a week and 2-3 emails a DAY from Lugar. Most are heavily negative against Mourdock. He is DESPERATE and should have retired like all the smart politicians that saw the anti-incumbent writing on the wall!

I find it funny that my democratic friends are actually posting stuff in favor of Lugar. I always ask them if they're going to take a Republican ballot, because there's no way in hell I'm voting for him!
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Old 05-06-12, 04:07 PM   #27
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Re: 2012 Senate Elections

I just want to say how happy I am that Lieberman is retiring.
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Old 05-06-12, 06:03 PM   #28
mosquitobite
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Re: 2012 Senate Elections

Lugar should have retired along with Lieberman...
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Old 05-08-12, 06:27 PM   #29
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Re: 2012 Senate Elections

Lugar has lost his primary against Richard Mourdock. Indiana has a sore loser law so this is it for the 80 year old Lugar. He truly ran a horrible campaign. Hatch was in a somewhat similar position but looks to be safe because he took his primary much more seriously early on. This seat could potentially be very competitive now.
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Old 05-08-12, 07:09 PM   #30
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Re: 2012 Senate Elections

Maybe Lugar could run as an Independent? Lieberman did.
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Old 05-08-12, 07:11 PM   #31
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Re: 2012 Senate Elections

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Originally Posted by classicman2 View Post
Maybe Lugar could run as an Independent? Lieberman did.
No, as mentioned by chowderhead Indiana has a sore loser law. Not sure of the purpose of those, but there you go.
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Old 05-08-12, 07:14 PM   #32
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Re: 2012 Senate Elections

Would the sore loser law survive a court challenge?
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Old 05-08-12, 07:24 PM   #33
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Re: 2012 Senate Elections

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Originally Posted by classicman2 View Post
Would the sore loser law survive a court challenge?
Depends on whether the party affiliation of the presiding judge matches that of the candidate making the challenge. I imagine the biggest problem any challenger would have is that by the time their case made it to court, the general election would be long over.
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Old 05-09-12, 11:58 AM   #34
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Re: 2012 Senate Elections

Don't feel sorry for Dick. He's got a good government pension coming.

It's difficult to see how any one can be more of a conservative than Lugar was. He was thought of as a hard core conservative by the rating groups I've seen.

Last edited by classicman2; 05-09-12 at 12:05 PM.
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Old 05-09-12, 02:38 PM   #35
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Re: 2012 Senate Elections

Compromise is unacceptable at any level to the new Republican party.
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Old 05-09-12, 02:50 PM   #36
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Re: 2012 Senate Elections

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Originally Posted by classicman2 View Post
It's difficult to see how any one can be more of a conservative than Lugar was. He was thought of as a hard core conservative by the rating groups I've seen.
You're living in the past. The recent past, but the past nonetheless.

Then again, so am I.
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Old 05-09-12, 10:04 PM   #37
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Re: 2012 Senate Elections

How much did Lugar's residency issues come into play?

I feel like that would have mattered to me. If the guy doesn't live in the state, why should he represent it?
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Old 05-10-12, 08:30 AM   #38
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Re: 2012 Senate Elections

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Originally Posted by classicman2 View Post
It's difficult to see how any one can be more of a conservative than Lugar was. He was thought of as a hard core conservative by the rating groups I've seen.
I've been looking around and all the "ideological ranking" places I've seen put him squarely in the centrist camp. It seems he was usually just behind Snowe and Collins when it came to the Dems looking for a crossover vote. The National Journal actually puts him between Snowe and Collins in their ranking.

But from what I've read it was less about ideology and more about Lugar being out of touch with his state and running a lousy campaign.
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Old 05-10-12, 08:34 AM   #39
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Re: 2012 Senate Elections

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Originally Posted by Venusian View Post
How much did Lugar's residency issues come into play?

I feel like that would have mattered to me. If the guy doesn't live in the state, why should he represent it?
That's a big reason Rick Santorum lost his Senate seat in PA. Not only did he not live here but he sent his kids to cyber school and allowed his home district to pay the bill.
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Old 05-10-12, 08:35 AM   #40
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Re: 2012 Senate Elections

When Lugar first came into office, congressmen & senators didn't go home every weekend as most do now. Most lived as bachelors (whether they were married or not) in apartments (nice ones) in Washington D.C. Sam Rayburn was famous for his exploits in Washington - famous for his poker get-togethers and good bourbon whiskey. Now, it's not reported if they were members of the opposite sex at those get togethers. I imagine there were.
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Old 05-10-12, 08:37 AM   #41
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Re: 2012 Senate Elections

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Originally Posted by wmansir View Post
I've been looking around and all the "ideological ranking" places I've seen put him squarely in the centrist camp. It seems he was usually just behind Snowe and Collins when it came to the Dems looking for a crossover vote. The National Journal actually puts him between Snowe and Collins in their ranking.

But from what I've read it was less about ideology and more about Lugar being out of touch with his state and running a lousy campaign.
Does the National Journal show their actual voting records on issues?

Try On The Issues.com.

The National Journal ranked Sen. Barack Obama as the most liberal in the Senate. Do you believe Obama was the most liberal? Ask our esteemed moderator wendersfan.
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Old 05-10-12, 08:38 AM   #42
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Re: 2012 Senate Elections

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Originally Posted by classicman2 View Post
When Lugar first came into office, congressmen & senators didn't go home every weekend as most do now. Most lived as bachelors (whether they were married or not) in apartments (nice ones) in Washington D.C. Sam Rayburn was famous for his exploits in Washington - famous for his poker get-togethers and good bourbon whiskey. Now, it's not reported if they were members of the opposite sex at those get togethers. I imagine there were.
You are referring to the time when Democrats and Republicans actually talked with one another and socialized.
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Old 05-10-12, 08:39 AM   #43
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Re: 2012 Senate Elections

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Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
Compromise is unacceptable at any level to the new Republican party.
Oh come on, BOTH parties are guilty of this. The last time anything worked in Washington was with Clinton and the Republicans. Since Bush won 2000, I believe politicans have become more polarized and more ideological and this reflects less moderates from both parties being elected. The Democrats didn't want to work with Bush after the 2006 elections, and the Republicans don't want to work with Obama after the 2010 elections.

Unfortunately this is the state of politics, and their BOTH at fault.
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Old 05-10-12, 08:44 AM   #44
classicman2
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Re: 2012 Senate Elections

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You are referring to the time when Democrats and Republicans actually talked with one another and socialized.
I believe there would be more bi-partisanship in the congress if they didn't return to their districts nearly every weekend. They might actually get to know the other members - even members of their party. Of course the re-election pressure wasn't on most of the members back then.
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Old 05-10-12, 08:45 AM   #45
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Re: 2012 Senate Elections

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Originally Posted by coli View Post
Oh come on, BOTH parties are guilty of this. The last time anything worked in Washington was with Clinton and the Republicans. Since Bush won 2000, I believe politicans have become more polarized and more ideological and this reflects less moderates from both parties being elected. The Democrats didn't want to work with Bush after the 2006 elections, and the Republicans don't want to work with Obama after the 2010 elections.

Unfortunately this is the state of politics, and their BOTH at fault.
Yeah, except that the Democrats capitulated entirely on healthcare reform (a one-way compromise) as just one example. How about Gitmo, Patriot Act, Bush tax cuts, and on and on. Name 4 significant pieces of legislation in that time frame in which the Republicans compromised.
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Old 05-10-12, 08:47 AM   #46
classicman2
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Re: 2012 Senate Elections

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Originally Posted by coli View Post
Oh come on, BOTH parties are guilty of this. The last time anything worked in Washington was with Clinton and the Republicans. Since Bush won 2000, I believe politicans have become more polarized and more ideological and this reflects less moderates from both parties being elected. The Democrats didn't want to work with Bush after the 2006 elections, and the Republicans don't want to work with Obama after the 2010 elections.

Unfortunately this is the state of politics, and their BOTH at fault.
I don't believe the parties idealogical leanings vary too much from those when there was cooperation in the congress.
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Old 05-10-12, 09:24 AM   #47
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Re: 2012 Senate Elections

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I don't believe the parties idealogical leanings vary too much from those when there was cooperation in the congress.
There were more Bill Nelsons and Olympia Snowes in Congress 20 years ago.

I did a 'quick and dirty' graph of the ADA and ACU ratings of Lugar. The solid lines are the actual rankings and the dotted lines show the linear trend:



BTW, blue = Americans for Democratic Action (ADA), red = American Conservative Union (ACU).

Clearly, Lugar got a bit more liberal over the time he was in the Senate. If I get an opportunity later today I'll do some work with his DW-NOMINATE scores, comparing him with his Senate colleagues over the years.

And no, Obama was not the most liberal Senator.
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Old 05-10-12, 10:45 AM   #48
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Re: 2012 Senate Elections

Would a New Deal Democrat such as Lyndon B. Johnson be called a Liberal Democrat today?
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Old 05-13-12, 10:38 AM   #49
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Re: 2012 Senate Elections

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Would the sore loser law survive a court challenge?
Since I've never lost a case, I wouldn't know.
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Old 05-13-12, 10:40 AM   #50
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Re: 2012 Senate Elections

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Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
You are referring to the time when Democrats and Republicans actually talked with one another and socialized.
And had bi-partisan limo drivers to pick them up off the sidewalk outside the pub & drive them home.

Good times, Tip & Ronnie.
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