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Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

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Old 07-07-11, 07:05 PM   #76
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Re: One & Only Illegal Immigration Thread: Part IX

The Maryland version of the DREAM act is going up for a vote it appears

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ANNAPOLIS, Md. — A petition drive against a measure allowing certain illegal immigrants to pay in-state tuition at Maryland colleges has succeeded in gathering enough signatures to put the legislation on the ballot.

The Maryland State Board of Elections on Thursday reported that 63,118 signatures have been validated. A total of 55,736 were needed to put the measure on the ballot for voters to decide in November 2012. Linda Lamone, the state elections administrator, said there are about 40,000 additional signatures still to be verified.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories...#ixzz1RT2rw6Rq
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Old 07-07-11, 08:11 PM   #77
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Re: One & Only Illegal Immigration Thread: Part IX

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Originally Posted by BearFan View Post
The Maryland version of the DREAM act is going up for a vote it appears



Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories...#ixzz1RT2rw6Rq
It's allowing them to pay in-state tuition. It's nowhere near a path to legal residency.
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Old 07-07-11, 08:15 PM   #78
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Re: One & Only Illegal Immigration Thread: Part IX

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Originally Posted by Superboy View Post
It's allowing them to pay in-state tuition. It's nowhere near a path to legal residency.
Good point, think they were calling it that ... in any case .. I am sure all the fine Democrats in MD will vote against this.
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Old 07-07-11, 09:17 PM   #79
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Re: One & Only Illegal Immigration Thread: Part IX

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Originally Posted by Superboy View Post
It's allowing them to pay in-state tuition. It's nowhere near a path to legal residency.
So....let me get this straight....they are getting a benefit for being able to break the law for 5 years and not get deported? I think the next law should provide subsidized housing for all drug dealers and gangbangers who have successfully dodged the police and leeched off the system for at least 5 years. That is basically what they are doing. The proposed law would require an illegal immigrant to complete 3 years of HS and 2 years of community college...ALL on the tax payer dime. So if they are able to pass their classes and avoid deportation, they are then rewarded with subsidized tuition to college? That is ridiculous.
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Old 07-08-11, 07:41 AM   #80
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Re: One & Only Illegal Immigration Thread: Part IX

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So....let me get this straight....they are getting a benefit for being able to break the law for 5 years and not get deported? That is ridiculous.
Livin' the DREAM baby!
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Old 07-08-11, 12:51 PM   #81
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Re: One & Only Illegal Immigration Thread: Part IX

Not only that, but if I (being from California) wanted to go to college in Maryland I would not qualify for in-state tuition. But someone from another country would. How does that fucking work?
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Old 07-08-11, 01:13 PM   #82
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Re: One & Only Illegal Immigration Thread: Part IX

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Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
Not only that, but if I (being from California) wanted to go to college in Maryland I would not qualify for in-state tuition. But someone from another country would. How does that fucking work?
Because in-state tuition is based upon residency in the state, not being an American citizen. That's why it's called "in-state tuition."
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Old 07-08-11, 01:27 PM   #83
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Re: One & Only Illegal Immigration Thread: Part IX

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Originally Posted by pedagogue View Post
So....let me get this straight....they are getting a benefit for being able to break the law for 5 years and not get deported? I think the next law should provide subsidized housing for all drug dealers and gangbangers who have successfully dodged the police and leeched off the system for at least 5 years. That is basically what they are doing. The proposed law would require an illegal immigrant to complete 3 years of HS and 2 years of community college...ALL on the tax payer dime. So if they are able to pass their classes and avoid deportation, they are then rewarded with subsidized tuition to college? That is ridiculous.
Yes, lets compare the illegal-immigrant-minor that likely entered illegally with his or her parents to drug dealers and gangbangers. Sheesh. Don't be so dramatic. It is not basically what they are doing. It's nowhere near that.

And I guess you missed this part of the article: "Students also will have to show that their parents paid state income taxes."
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Old 07-08-11, 05:27 PM   #84
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Re: One & Only Illegal Immigration Thread: Part IX

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Originally Posted by pedagogue View Post
So....let me get this straight....they are getting a benefit for being able to break the law for 5 years and not get deported? I think the next law should provide subsidized housing for all drug dealers and gangbangers who have successfully dodged the police and leeched off the system for at least 5 years. That is basically what they are doing. The proposed law would require an illegal immigrant to complete 3 years of HS and 2 years of community college...ALL on the tax payer dime. So if they are able to pass their classes and avoid deportation, they are then rewarded with subsidized tuition to college? That is ridiculous.
I like how you always take one point I make and throw it in the most convenient direction for you to rebut.

and technically speaking, convicted drug dealers do have subsidized housing and meals. They also have free health care and dental, as we well as free room and board. Only it's called "prison", or something like that.
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Old 07-08-11, 05:28 PM   #85
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Re: One & Only Illegal Immigration Thread: Part IX

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Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
Yes, lets compare the illegal-immigrant-minor that likely entered illegally with his or her parents to drug dealers and gangbangers. Sheesh. Don't be so dramatic. It is not basically what they are doing. It's nowhere near that.

And I guess you missed this part of the article: "Students also will have to show that their parents paid state income taxes."
No, they didn't. They didn't pay taxes, they circumvented it somehow. Unlike the good people here, who have always paid all the taxes that they're liable for in full and on time. No one here in their right mind would cheat on their taxes, unless they want to make baby George Washington cry.
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Old 07-08-11, 05:30 PM   #86
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Re: One & Only Illegal Immigration Thread: Part IX

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Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
Not only that, but if I (being from California) wanted to go to college in Maryland I would not qualify for in-state tuition. But someone from another country would. How does that fucking work?
Well it works because you don't live there, and you haven't paid taxes there.
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Old 07-08-11, 06:27 PM   #87
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Re: One & Only Illegal Immigration Thread: Part IX

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Originally Posted by Superboy View Post
No, they didn't. They didn't pay taxes, they circumvented it somehow. Unlike the good people here, who have always paid all the taxes that they're liable for in full and on time. No one here in their right mind would cheat on their taxes, unless they want to make baby George Washington cry.
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In-State Tuition

There is a conflict between Federal and State law regarding the eligibility of undocumented students for in-state tuition rates.

Federal law passed in 1996 prohibits illegal aliens from receiving in-state tuition rates at public institutions of higher education. Specifically, Section 505 of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 (Title 8, Chapter 14, Sec. 1623(a)) states: "an alien who is not lawfully present in the United States shall not be eligible on the basis of residence within a State (or a political subdivision) for any postsecondary education benefit unless a citizen or national of the United States is eligible for such a benefit (in no less an amount, duration, and scope) without regard to whether the citizen or national is such a resident."

Several states -- Texas, California, New York, Utah, Illinois, Washington, Nebraska, New Mexico, Maryland (community colleges), Oklahoma, Wisconsin and Kansas -- have passed state laws providing in-state tuition benefits to illegal aliens who have attended high school in the state for three or more years. Similar legislation is pending in Florida, Hawaii, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Hampshire, New Jersey, North Carolina, Oregon, South Carolina, Tennessee and Virginia. (Connecticut also passed such a law, but the governor vetoed it.) The Nevada system of higher education does not consider immigration status for in-state tuition, but does require it for a state-sponsored scholarship. Also, some schools in Georgia provide in-state tuition benefits to illegal aliens. The Texas law also allows illegal aliens to receive state student financial aid.

These state laws attempt to circumvent the federal law by simply not asking students whether they are in the US legally. (The California law, AB 540, requires the student to file an affidavit that he/she has filed an application to legalize his/her immigration status or intends to file an application as soon as he/she is eligible to do so. So California doesn't even attempt to maintain the fiction that the school is unaware of the student's immigration status.) They also circumvent the law by basing eligibility for in-state tuition on attendance at or graduation from an in-state high school and not on state residence.

Subsection 8 USC 1621(d) permits states to provide illegal aliens with state and local public benefits provided that a state law is enacted after August 22, 1996 specifically permitting illegal aliens to receive such benefits. However, this subsection makes a potentially limiting reference to subsection 1621(a) and so does not override the restrictions in 8 USC 1623(a). As such, it would appear that the state laws permitting in-state tuition to illegal aliens are not permitted by the federal law.
http://www.finaid.org/otheraid/undocumented.phtml



Apparently immigration patchwork is selectively permeable...
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The Constitution and federal law do not permit the development of a patchwork of state and local immigration policies throughout the country.
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Old 07-09-11, 03:16 PM   #88
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Re: One & Only Illegal Immigration Thread: Part IX

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Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
Yes, lets compare the illegal-immigrant-minor that likely entered illegally with his or her parents to drug dealers and gangbangers. Sheesh. Don't be so dramatic. It is not basically what they are doing. It's nowhere near that.

And I guess you missed this part of the article: "Students also will have to show that their parents paid state income taxes."
So a comparison....they both:
-Are criminals based on their violation of a plethora of laws.
-Purposefully and willfully evade police & other authorities.
-Selfishly act in their own best interests, at the cost of American citizens.
-Choose to exploit social services for financial gain.
-Their existence raise crime rates
-Their existence steals jobs from law abiding citizens.

The commonalities go on and on. And the worst commonality....they aren't mutually exclusive groups. Just look at the rates of illegal immigrants currently incarcerated, and how many have gang ties and/or ties to drugs. I'm not saying it is the majority of illegal immigrants, but they are definitely a sub-set....which validates my comparison.

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Originally Posted by Superboy View Post
and technically speaking, convicted drug dealers do have subsidized housing and meals. They also have free health care and dental, as we well as free room and board. Only it's called "prison", or something like that.
Every single one of the illegal immigrants who are currently incarcerated should be forced to repay the tax payer for the cost of their stay. I'm all for hard labor, wage garnishment, and confiscation of all property and valuables that can be sold. Houses, cars, etc.
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Old 07-09-11, 07:32 PM   #89
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Re: One & Only Illegal Immigration Thread: Part IX

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Originally Posted by pedagogue View Post
So a comparison....they both:
-Are criminals based on their violation of a plethora of laws.
-Purposefully and willfully evade police & other authorities.
-Selfishly act in their own best interests, at the cost of American citizens.
-Choose to exploit social services for financial gain.
-Their existence raise crime rates
-Their existence steals jobs from law abiding citizens.

The commonalities go on and on. And the worst commonality....they aren't mutually exclusive groups. Just look at the rates of illegal immigrants currently incarcerated, and how many have gang ties and/or ties to drugs. I'm not saying it is the majority of illegal immigrants, but they are definitely a sub-set....which validates my comparison.



Every single one of the illegal immigrants who are currently incarcerated should be forced to repay the tax payer for the cost of their stay. I'm all for hard labor, wage garnishment, and confiscation of all property and valuables that can be sold. Houses, cars, etc.
well, if you're wondering why the war on drugs is never going to end, it's because of that attitude.
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Old 07-09-11, 08:20 PM   #90
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Re: One & Only Illegal Immigration Thread: Part IX

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well, if you're wondering why the war on drugs is never going to end, it's because of that attitude.
So you concede the point?
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Old 07-10-11, 06:18 AM   #91
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Re: One & Only Illegal Immigration Thread: Part IX

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Originally Posted by pedagogue View Post
So a comparison....they both:
-Are criminals based on their violation of a plethora of laws.
Depends. Do you consider yourself a criminal based on having run a red light once? Does that put you in the same category as, say, a murderer?

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Originally Posted by pedagogue View Post
-Selfishly act in their own best interests, at the cost of American citizens.
-Choose to exploit social services for financial gain.
-Their existence raise crime rates
-Their existence steals jobs from law abiding citizens.
These are debatable.
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Old 07-10-11, 09:34 AM   #92
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Re: One & Only Illegal Immigration Thread: Part IX

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Depends. Do you consider yourself a criminal based on having run a red light once? Does that put you in the same category as, say, a murderer?
Plethora =/= once.

An illegal immigrant violates multiple laws breaking into the country, breaks more laws by staying, and their activities here break even more laws. Running 1 stop light does not equate to ID theft, tax evasion, forging legal documents, etc.

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These are debatable.
Citations to prove otherwise?
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Old 07-10-11, 09:41 AM   #93
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Re: One & Only Illegal Immigration Thread: Part IX

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So a comparison....they both:
-Are criminals based on their violation of a plethora of laws.
-Purposefully and willfully evade police & other authorities.
-Selfishly act in their own best interests, at the cost of American citizens.
-Choose to exploit social services for financial gain.
-Their existence raise crime rates
-Their existence steals jobs from law abiding citizens.
Assuming we are talking about the 18-year-old illegal immigrant who wants to go to college, then no. At least to the last 4. You seem to think they're all street thugs. I assume you want such an illegal immigrant to get on the bus back to Guadalajara when they turn 18, even if they've lived most of their life here.
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Old 07-10-11, 11:33 AM   #94
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Re: One & Only Illegal Immigration Thread: Part IX

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Assuming we are talking about the 18-year-old illegal immigrant who wants to go to college, then no. At least to the last 4. You seem to think they're all street thugs. I assume you want such an illegal immigrant to get on the bus back to Guadalajara when they turn 18, even if they've lived most of their life here.
All of those points still apply. I don't assume they are all street thugs, but that doesn't take away from the fact they are breaking the law and they are taking services away from legal immigrants and US citizens. I want every illegal immigrant to leave this country. If they want to be here, they need to go through the proper channels, just like everyone else. They are just as guilty as their parents for staying here. At 18 they know better, and they just choose to ignore their responsibilities so they can continue to take advantage of services meant for legal immigrants and US citizens. If I were so brash to do the same thing in another country, I'd get thrown in jail and/or detained and deported. In the USA they demand in-state tuition and MORE rights.
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Old 07-10-11, 09:53 PM   #95
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Re: One & Only Illegal Immigration Thread: Part IX

So you allow the illegal immigrant to get in-state tuition... what happens after they graduate and they can't get a job here because the presumably higher-educated jobs they're trying to get are for citizens or legal immigrants?
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Old 07-10-11, 09:58 PM   #96
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Re: One & Only Illegal Immigration Thread: Part IX

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So you allow the illegal immigrant to get in-state tuition... what happens after they graduate and they can't get a job here because the presumably higher-educated jobs they're trying to get are for citizens or legal immigrants?
Obama swoops in, sprinkles his Magic Citizen Making Dust on them, and now he has millions of new voters for his re-election.
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Old 07-12-11, 03:30 PM   #97
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Re: One & Only Illegal Immigration Thread: Part IX

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Obama swoops in, sprinkles his Magic Citizen Making Dust on them, and now he has millions of new voters for his re-election.
It is magic, because it doesn't exist. No one in the White House or Congress has suggested any kind of amnesty on that kind of timetable. I don't know where you get your massive delusions.
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Old 07-12-11, 03:31 PM   #98
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Re: One & Only Illegal Immigration Thread: Part IX

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So you allow the illegal immigrant to get in-state tuition... what happens after they graduate and they can't get a job here because the presumably higher-educated jobs they're trying to get are for citizens or legal immigrants?
Why do you always ask so many questions, but give so few answers?

You already know the answer to your question: They leave, and they take their money with them. The same goes for the legal students studying here too. Apparently America has decided that we should train people at the best colleges in the world, and then turn around and tell them to leave.
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Old 07-14-11, 01:04 AM   #99
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Re: One & Only Illegal Immigration Thread: Part IX

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It is magic, because it doesn't exist. No one in the White House or Congress has suggested any kind of amnesty on that kind of timetable. I don't know where you get your massive delusions.
He has mostly ignored the majority of Americans who have asked for stricter enforcement of existing laws about illegal immigrations. He is allowing too much "discretion" to the prosecution (or lack there of) for court cases involving illegal immigrants. Why is he doing this...because he wants to convert the 20+ million illegal immigrants into legalized votes.....err....citizens.

This move is just the next step towards granting compete amnesty and a super-fast track to citizenship. His rationale is that they are already going to school, working jobs, etc.
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Old 07-14-11, 06:25 AM   #100
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Re: One & Only Illegal Immigration Thread: Part IX

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So you concede the point?


Maybe you should re-read my post...
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