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Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

View Poll Results: What % of self-identified Republicans are aware of Obamacare's conservative roots?
0 to 25% 51 79.69%
26 to 50% 3 4.69%
51 to 75% 0 0%
76 to 100% 10 15.63%
Voters: 64. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-27-11, 09:50 AM   #1
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Health Care discussion continues - part 9

Previous thread (part8): HERE

Obamacare will destroy this country...please continue.
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Old 01-27-11, 10:51 AM   #2
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

What's the endgame on the waivers? Theories?
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Old 01-27-11, 10:53 AM   #3
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

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Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
What's the endgame on the waivers? Theories?
The Knights Templar take over the world via the Illuminati?
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Old 01-27-11, 10:54 AM   #4
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

2.1 million people on wavers. Those waivers are only good for a year, which I think means a significant premium increase for them when the waiver runs out (if not renewed).

At least, how I understand it. Are the waivers for companies that offer lower cost, capped plans that will no longer be allowed?
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Old 01-27-11, 11:01 AM   #5
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

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The Knights Templar take over the world via the Illuminati?
Let's see that alliance hold up, I say!
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Old 01-27-11, 04:11 PM   #6
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

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Originally Posted by Dr Mabuse View Post
The Knights Templar take over the world via the Illuminati?
Both pawns controlled by the Anunnaki.

Who isn't?
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Old 01-27-11, 08:27 PM   #7
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

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Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
What's the endgame on the waivers? Theories?
"Do as I Say (Not as I Do)"

Unions were some of the biggest supporters of Obamacare.

But now these hypocrites are getting lots of exemptions from the law that they expect everyone else to follow:


http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/...pted-obamacare

By David Freddoso

Jan 27 2011

Unions make up 40 percent of employees exempted from Obamacare

Yesterday, the Deparment of Health and Human Services announced it had granted more than 500 new waivers to Obamacare's requirement that health plans have annual limits of no less than $750,000. This annual limit requirement climbs to $1.25 million next year and then to $2 million.

The reason these exemptions from the law are needed is that Obamacare forces all health insurance consumers to over-insure themselves and pay high premiums as a result. Without the waivers, many companies, non-profits and unions would simply drop their health plans. As of 2014, the waivers will no longer be available -- at least, that's the way the law is written.

It is worth noting that there are 166 union benefits funds now exempted from this requirement, which account for about 40 percent of the exempted workers. This means that although there are only 14.6 million unionized employees in the United States, and 860,000 of them are already exempted from this provision of Obamacare.
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Old 01-28-11, 03:17 PM   #8
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Obama Tells GOP It's Time To Stop the Fight

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-...28-712234.html
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Old 01-28-11, 03:23 PM   #9
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Re: Obama Tells GOP It's Time To Stop the Fight

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What else is he going to say? Elections only mean things when he wins.
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Old 01-28-11, 03:31 PM   #10
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Re: Obama Tells GOP It's Time To Stop the Fight

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What else is he going to say? Elections only mean things when he wins.
lol Republicans always dismiss elections when they lose why wouldn't Democrats do the same?
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Old 01-28-11, 03:35 PM   #11
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Re: Obama Tells GOP It's Time To Stop the Fight

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lol Republicans always dismiss elections when they lose why wouldn't Democrats do the same?
I'm quite sure both do it. As I said, what else is he going to say?
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Old 01-30-11, 06:41 PM   #12
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...are-420960137/

Tawdry details of Obamacare

White House quietly exempts pampered politicos

By Dr. Milton R. Wolf

January 28, 2011

If you would like to know what the White House really thinks of Obamacare, there’s an easy way. Look past its press releases. Ignore its promises. Forget its talking points. Instead, simply witness for yourself the outrageous way the White House protects its best friends from Obamacare.

Last year, we learned that the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) had granted 111 waivers to protect a lucky few from the onerous regulations of the new national health care overhaul. That number quickly and quietly climbed to 222, and last week we learned that the number of Obamacare privileged escapes has skyrocketed to 733.

Among the fortunate is a who’s who list of unions, businesses and even several cities and four states (Massachusetts, New Jersey, Ohio and Tennessee) but none of the friends of Barack feature as prominently as the Service Employees International Union (SEIU).

How can you get your own free pass from Obamacare? Maybe you can just donate $27 million to President Obama‘s campaign efforts. That’s what Andy Stern did as president of SEIU in 2008. He has been the most frequent guest at Mr. Obama‘s White House.

Backroom deals have become par for the course for proponents of Obamacare. Senators were greased with special favors, like Nebraska Democratic Sen. Ben Nelson and his Cornhusker Kickback and Louisiana Democrat Sen. Mary L. Landrieu and her Louisiana Purchase. Even the American Medical Association was brought in line under threat of losing its exclusive and lucrative medical coding contracts with the government.

Not only are the payoffs an affront to our democracy and an outright assault on our taxpayers, the timing itself of the latest release makes a mockery of this administration’s transparency promises. More than 500 of the 733 waivers, we now know, were granted in December but kept conveniently under wraps until the day after the president’s State of the Union address. HHS is no stranger to covering up bad news; in fact, this is becoming a disturbing pattern. Last year, Secretary Kathleen Sebelius hid from Congress until after the Obamacare vote a damning report from the Medicare and Medicaid Office of the Actuary showing Obamacare would cost $311 billion more than promised and would displace 14 million Americans from their current insurance.

For this administration, transparency promises last only until the teleprompter is unplugged.

Backroom deals and cover-ups may be business as usual for Washington, but understanding why the Obama administration protects its friends from Obamacare offers special insight into what the purveyors of the mandate themselves think about their own law. This is key: The waivers aren’t meant to protect victims from unintended consequences of Obamacare; they are meant to exempt them from the very intentional increased costs of health insurance that the law causes. Under Section 2711 of the Public Health Service Act, Obamacare increases the annual cap of insurance benefits, which sounds great - as does everything else in big government - until the bill comes due, in this case, in the form of higher insurance premiums.

In short, the administration has decided that you will face increased health insurance premiums, but special friends in the unions will not. Look closely, and you’ll see not only the White House‘s duplicity but also what the Obama administration really thinks of its crown jewel, Obamacare. White House words say that the annual insurance benefit cap is a feature of the program, but its actions say that it’s a bug.

The question remains: If Obamacare is such a great law, why does the White House keep protecting its best friends from it?

Our democracy cannot allow a president to exercise the unholy power of picking and choosing winners and losers, of choosing who must follow his flawed laws and who gets a free pass. If any American deserves a waiver from Obamacare, then all Americans do.

It was Mr. Obama himself who infamously said, “We’re gonna punish our enemies and we’re gonna reward our friends.” This president speaks anything but softly, and Obamacare is his big stick.

It’s time to give every American his own waiver: Repeal Obamacare.
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Old 01-31-11, 12:58 AM   #13
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

If my health insurance premiums go up, does that mean I get to complain about the "no new taxes on those making under $250,000...not even one dime" broken promise?
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Old 01-31-11, 07:30 AM   #14
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

No.
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Old 01-31-11, 08:08 AM   #15
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

My rates went up the most they ever have. Co-pay, meds, monthly payment... its hurting.

And yes, I make much, much less than $250K.
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Old 01-31-11, 08:36 AM   #16
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

I can only imagine paying the rates that some of my colleagues pay. There's no question that costs are out of control and unfortunately, this bill doesn't seem to have done a thing about it.

I may be heading for the hospital today, so I'm just thankful to have some kind of insurance in case things go south.
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Old 01-31-11, 09:01 AM   #17
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

All of our rates were going to go up no matter what. Where has everyone been for the past 20 years?
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Old 01-31-11, 09:10 AM   #18
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

So, no problem then.
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Old 01-31-11, 09:17 AM   #19
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

No, there IS a problem and the cause is not health care reform.
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Old 01-31-11, 09:40 AM   #20
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

Then it appears we are using the wrong medication.
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Old 01-31-11, 09:46 AM   #21
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

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No, there IS a problem and the cause is not health care reform.
Nor is health care reform the solution we were it would be. I don't think people actually believed it would cause their premiums to go down, stay the same or increase at less than double digit rates. But that was certainly what the people selling it would have led us to believe would happen (admittedly not right away, but in the near future).
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Old 01-31-11, 09:59 AM   #22
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

I don't think I heard that. I think the original, more radical plans would have done that. Unfortunately, the legislation became a compromised handout to the insurance industry. Exactly the opposite of what was needed. I guess those who stand behind it think that some improvement is better than nothing.
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Old 01-31-11, 10:23 AM   #23
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

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I guess those who stand behind it think that some improvement is better than nothing.
That is probably their thinking, but I don't think there is any improvement here. I should probably say that the system is not an overall improvement to what it was, to be fair. And I think it will make things much worse than they would have been.

But if you pushed super hard for this to become law, you can't admit that this isn't working. Instead you have to talk about ways to improve it, even in the face of knowing you can't.

Tough position for everyone to be in. It simply won't get any better for a few years.
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Old 01-31-11, 11:49 AM   #24
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

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I don't think I heard that. I think the original, more radical plans would have done that. Unfortunately, the legislation became a compromised handout to the insurance industry. Exactly the opposite of what was needed. I guess those who stand behind it think that some improvement is better than nothing.
There was all kinds of talk about bending the cost curve.
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Old 01-31-11, 01:46 PM   #25
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

Costs were definitely addressed more early on, and only to a degree with the final plan. I think a cost solution was embedded more in everyone's psyche than in the actual portrayal of it as the final bill began to emerge. It wasn't absent, but the degree and reasoning of the savings were much less substantial than the early plans.

One thing that was certainly consistent was the villainizing of health insurance companies. Which made it particularly interesting that all Americans were then required to succumb to the villain.

Health insurance companies were essentially told "you cannot deny anyone coverage" and also "but don't worry, every American will have to buy what you sell" and "don't worry, if it costs you more then you can just pass that on to everyone's bill, which they must pay."
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