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Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

View Poll Results: What % of self-identified Republicans are aware of Obamacare's conservative roots?
0 to 25% 43 78.18%
26 to 50% 2 3.64%
51 to 75% 0 0%
76 to 100% 10 18.18%
Voters: 55. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-19-17, 03:54 PM   #6101
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

NY has put a bill before the legislature for state sponsored health care for New Yorkers. could New Yorkers get universal health care coverage?

The big question is how to pay for it. Estimated cost would be a $226 billion tax increase which works out to $11,414 per person. A family of 4 is not going to pay $45,656 in taxes for health care so not sure how they would pull this off and they don't say. Of course NY just passed free college and the $153 million they set aside only covers 3% of the eligible recipients so NY isn't exactly worried about a few bucks one way or the other.
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Old 05-19-17, 05:55 PM   #6102
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

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Originally Posted by JimRochester View Post
NY has put a bill before the legislature for state sponsored health care for New Yorkers. could New Yorkers get universal health care coverage?

The big question is how to pay for it. Estimated cost would be a $226 billion tax increase which works out to $11,414 per person. A family of 4 is not going to pay $45,656 in taxes for health care so not sure how they would pull this off and they don't say. Of course NY just passed free college and the $153 million they set aside only covers 3% of the eligible recipients so NY isn't exactly worried about a few bucks one way or the other.
Well that has been my point. While I'm now for a single payer system, people have to understand it is just a payment system. If you don't do something to actually lower the cost of care, then the cost to the consumer will be no less. It's just being paid in taxes instead of premiums.

While I suppose possible to pull off at the state level, im not sure how. What leverage does the state have to force Dr's/drug companies/hospitals/service provides to only change so much?
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Old 05-19-17, 06:44 PM   #6103
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

As someone who has many VA's as customers, I can tell you I'm not fond of how the gov't runs health care, at least as how it relates to the VA. All I would ask is that anyone who wanted a gov't run system, go see some of the VA's and be prepared to ask your representative how it a universal health care system would differ from what they are doing now. Because I can almost guarantee you, you won't be happy with how they do things now.
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Old 05-19-17, 08:29 PM   #6104
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

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Originally Posted by JimRochester View Post
As someone who has many VA's as customers, I can tell you I'm not fond of how the gov't runs health care, at least as how it relates to the VA. All I would ask is that anyone who wanted a gov't run system, go see some of the VA's and be prepared to ask your representative how it a universal health care system would differ from what they are doing now. Because I can almost guarantee you, you won't be happy with how they do things now.
That's the question isn't it? Will single payer be run like VA, or would the US learn from countries that are doing "well" with it.
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Old 05-19-17, 08:39 PM   #6105
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

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Old 05-19-17, 10:36 PM   #6106
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

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While the story doesn't seem real, it is possible. And the point is well made.

It's the same with states that have "financial responsibility" laws if you drive a car. You have cottage industries that pop up to take advantage of the situation.
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Old 05-22-17, 04:21 PM   #6107
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

So the single-payer plan in CA covers more than most European plans and only costs an additional $50-100 billion? I know a tax raise is hard to sell but that's incredible.

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Therefore, the total new spending under the bill would be between $50 billion and $100 billion each year.
Under the bill, the state would cover medical care for every resident in California, including those without legal immigration status. Enrollees would not have to pay premiums, co-payments or deductibles.
I'll gladly pay that in taxes with the money I'll save from my current plan, as would pretty much 100% of everyone I know.

As goes California, so goes the nation...
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Old 05-22-17, 04:30 PM   #6108
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

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Originally Posted by slop101 View Post
So the single-payer plan in CA covers more than most European plans and only costs an additional $50-100 billion? I know a tax raise is hard to sell but that's incredible.


I'll gladly pay that in taxes with the money I'll save from my current plan, as would pretty much 100% of everyone I know.

As goes California, so goes the nation...
$100B works out to around $10,000 for a family of four.

Oh, I clicked the article, total cost is $400B, $200B in additional taxes. With the population of California at around 40M, you are talking $40,000 for a family of 4.
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Old 05-22-17, 05:06 PM   #6109
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

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Originally Posted by PerryD View Post
$100B works out to around $10,000 for a family of four.

Oh, I clicked the article, total cost is $400B, $200B in additional taxes. With the population of California at around 40M, you are talking $40,000 for a family of 4.
I'm not sure if that's how they tally the math. It's supposed to be close to what people are paying now for ACA, but with even better/more coverage.
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Old 05-22-17, 05:17 PM   #6110
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

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Originally Posted by PerryD View Post
$100B works out to around $10,000 for a family of four.

Oh, I clicked the article, total cost is $400B, $200B in additional taxes. With the population of California at around 40M, you are talking $40,000 for a family of 4.
That's what NY works out to, but we were around $11,000. That's assuming every man, woman and child is working and would pay $10,000 plus in taxes. Since a large portion of the population is too young to work, too old to work, unemployed, not here legally so not paying taxes, etc., the working population would have quite the medical bill.
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Old 05-22-17, 05:18 PM   #6111
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

It's a start. Only way that price will ever come down is if they can get the actual cost of healthcare (not just insurance) down.

I've seen the inner-workings of hospitals (from an asset management and material supply viewpoint). It's insane how excessive they are. If the industry can ever "lean up" (see: lean manufacturing), everything will change.
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Old 05-22-17, 05:28 PM   #6112
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

According to the article only about half would need to be new taxes. They would also raise some by a 15% payroll tax on employers. So for the employee making $50,000 the employer would pay $7,500. Now if the employer is saving on insurance premiums it should be a wash. However on higher priced employees, the tax would probably exceed what they were paying for premiums.

It doesn't say how this would effect small business or part timers. Usually small mom and pops, or non-profits don't pay much towards health care, so that would be a huge burden if it covers every single employee even part time. Raise the minimum to $15/hr. then tack on another $2.25 and hour for payroll tax on top of the current payroll taxes and employee costs and it would be cost prohibitive for the little guys.
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Old 05-22-17, 05:35 PM   #6113
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

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Originally Posted by Troy Stiffler View Post
It's a start. Only way that price will ever come down is if they can get the actual cost of healthcare (not just insurance) down.

I've seen the inner-workings of hospitals (from an asset management and material supply viewpoint). It's insane how excessive they are. If the industry can ever "lean up" (see: lean manufacturing), everything will change.
Yup. The only signification was to reduce cost is by reducing the cost of care.
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Old 05-26-17, 11:14 AM   #6114
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

Wow.

Insurers continue to hike prices, abandon ACA markets


Many insurance companies have faced large financial losses selling this type of insurance and have responded by either raising prices or abandoning that kind of coverage altogether. Blue Cross and Blue Shield of North Carolina said earlier this year that it lost $38 million on ACA plans last year and more than $400 million between 2014 and 2015.


People shopping for insurance through the Affordable Care Act in yet more regions could face higher prices and fewer choices next year as insurance companies lay out their early plans for 2018.

Blue Cross and Blue Shield of North Carolina is asking regulators for a 23 percent price hike next year because it doesn't expect crucial payments from the federal government to continue. That announcement comes a day after Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Kansas City said it will leave the individual insurance market next year, a decision that affects about 67,000 people in a 32-county area in Kansas and Missouri.

The Kansas City company's decision also will leave shoppers in 25 counties with no options for coverage sold on public insurance exchanges, unless another insurer steps in, according to data compiled by The Associated Press and the consulting firm Avalere. The law's insurance exchanges are the only place where people can buy coverage with help from an income-based tax credit.

Other insurers around the country, such as Aetna and Humana, have already said they will not offer coverage on exchanges next year, though several, including Centene, say they will.

Options are growing thin in many markets. The Kansas City insurer's decision means that only 10 of Missouri's 115 counties will have more than one insurer selling coverage on the exchange next year.

Blue Cross and Blue Shield of North Carolina sells coverage in all 100 North Carolina counties, and it is the lone option in 95. It said Thursday that its participation for next year is not guaranteed.

Insurers still have a couple months to consider their options before finally committing to selling coverage in 2018.

The North Carolina insurer said it expects no help from federal cost-sharing reduction payments next year, and that's reflected in its initial rate request that calls for a 23 percent price increase, on average. If it could be assured of the subsidies that are part of the law and have been paid in the past, it said prices would rise about 9 percent. The insurer covers more than 460,000 people who bought coverage on the exchange.

It said about two thirds of those customers get cost-sharing help, but the price increase for providing insurance without this help will be spread over all of its customers in that market.

"Many ACA customers will pay more for coverage that is already a large portion of their household income," said Brian Tajlili, director of actuarial and pricing services for the insurer.

The government has been giving insurers money to help customers with modest incomes cover out-of-pocket expenses like co-payments and deductibles. But the future of those payments, which are separate from the income-based tax credits that help people buy coverage, is in political limbo.

Republicans had sued the Obama Administration to stop the subsidies, and that case is now tied up in court. President Donald Trump's administration has sent mixed signals over how it will pursue the case or whether the payments will continue. Insurers want some assurance that the payments, which total about $7 billion, will continue through 2018.

Tajlili said his company wants to see some sort of a legal guarantee, like Congress appropriating the money, in order to feel comfortable that the payments will actually be made through 2018.


———

AP data journalist Meghan Hoyer contributed to this report from Washington, D.C.


http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireSto...rkets-47636099
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Old 05-26-17, 03:04 PM   #6115
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

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Originally Posted by JimRochester View Post
As someone who has many VA's as customers, I can tell you I'm not fond of how the gov't runs health care, at least as how it relates to the VA. All I would ask is that anyone who wanted a gov't run system, go see some of the VA's and be prepared to ask your representative how it a universal health care system would differ from what they are doing now. Because I can almost guarantee you, you won't be happy with how they do things now.
I forgot to mention, a single payer system doesn't have to mean a government health care system. At its core a single payer system is only a payment mechanism. Unlike the VA which has its own doctors and hospitals.

I would presume, at least to start, a single payer in the US would just take the place of the Insurance company. Meaning instead of me paying premiums, going to my Dr and then my insurance company paying the Dr, I pay my taxes, go to my Dr and the government pays my Dr.
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Old 05-28-17, 08:44 PM   #6116
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

Don't worry everyone. Trump's got this.

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Old 05-29-17, 12:49 AM   #6117
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

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Don't worry everyone. Trump's got this.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...79531641741313
Trump just proposed a budget with massive cuts to governmental spending on health care, so he can just go fuck himself and his tweet.
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