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Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

View Poll Results: What % of self-identified Republicans are aware of Obamacare's conservative roots?
0 to 25% 42 77.78%
26 to 50% 2 3.70%
51 to 75% 0 0%
76 to 100% 10 18.52%
Voters: 54. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-14-17, 03:41 PM   #6001
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

About selling health insurance across state lines: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/01/u...ines.html?_r=0

Quote:
The idea is that by eliminating the red tape associated with state insurance regulation, insurers will be able to offer national plans with lower administrative costs. That would expand consumers’ choices and reduce the price of insurance. The proposals also all assume that, in place of expensive regulations in some states, insurers would have the option of choosing to base their companies in a state with fewer rules. In some versions of the plan, they would have to comply only with basic federal requirements that would apply everywhere.

“You would have a lot more people coming into the market,” said Brittany La Couture, a health policy counsel at the conservative American Action Forum, who has written about the idea in a largely positive light. A national market would “give people options, help them choose the best plan for them,” she said.

Both critics and enthusiasts of the idea agree that this could be true. Some states require much more of insurers than others, and following the many and varied state rules may drive up the cost of insurance in some markets. Customers in a state requiring insurance to pay for chiropractic care or infertility treatments, for example, might prefer to buy a cheaper policy in a state that doesn’t require such benefits.

The trouble is that varying or numerous state regulations aren’t the main reason insurance markets tend to be uncompetitive. Selling insurance in a new region or state takes more than just getting a license and including all the locally required benefits. It also involves setting up favorable contracts with doctors and hospitals so that customers will be able to get access to health care. Establishing those networks of health care providers can be hard for new market entrants.

“The barriers to entry are not truly regulatory, they are financial and they are network,” said Sabrina Corlette, the director of the Georgetown University Health Policy Institute.

In 2012, Ms. Corlette and co-authors completed a study of a number of states that passed laws to allow out-of-state insurance sales. Not a single out-of-state insurer had taken them up on the offer. As Ms. Corlette’s paper highlighted, there is no federal impediment to across-state-lines arrangements. The main difficulty is that most states want to regulate local products themselves. The Affordable Care Act actually has a few provisions to encourage more regional and national sales of insurance, but they have not proved popular...

Beyond regulations and doctors, demographics help explain why insurance is cheaper in some places than others. Insurance tends to be less expensive in states like Utah and Colorado, where more people are young and healthy. If customers in New York wanted to start buying Utah plans, they might face two surprises: fewer local doctors and higher costs related to the health of the local population.

“I’ve tried for 10 years to explain this to Republicans; it is a big problem,” said Merrill Matthews, a resident scholar at the Institute for Policy Innovation, which focuses on free-market solutions to policy problems. “Just because a good affordable policy is available in another state doesn’t mean that I would be able to get the network of physicians and the good prices that are available in that other state.”

For that reason, even enthusiasts for interstate insurance sales say the plan is “not a panacea” or “not a silver bullet.”
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Old 03-14-17, 03:50 PM   #6002
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

I can't remember where I saw it, maybe John Oliver, but they made a very good point. What is the benefit to this whole "across state lines" carrot? What benefit would an insurance company have in say PA to sell insurance in MD? They'd have to set up a provider network in another state, hire additional personnel and for what? A small company isn't going to put out the money and a Blue Cross wouldn't undercut themselves on price.
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Old 03-14-17, 03:53 PM   #6003
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

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Originally Posted by joeblow69 View Post
I think the republicans are really LUCKY that the CBO estimates for obamacare were WAY off. At least that gives them some sort of deflection.
Sure. "Lucky". Setting aside the cynicism in the idea that anyone is lucky there are more uninsured than anticipated, isn't the error in CBO's estimate almost entirely attributable to the states that chose not to take Medicaid expansion? In other words, the only reason CBO's estimates were off is because Republicans (in state government) didn't follow the statute as it was examined by CBO.
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Old 03-14-17, 04:02 PM   #6004
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

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Originally Posted by Timber View Post
I can't remember where I saw it, maybe John Oliver, but they made a very good point. What is the benefit to this whole "across state lines" carrot? What benefit would an insurance company have in say PA to sell insurance in MD? They'd have to set up a provider network in another state, hire additional personnel and for what? A small company isn't going to put out the money and a Blue Cross wouldn't undercut themselves on price.
The benefit for an insurance company might be fewer regulations and less consumer protection. In practice, it doesn't work because of the need to set up hospital and doctor networks locally.
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Old 03-14-17, 04:17 PM   #6005
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

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Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
Sure. "Lucky". Setting aside the cynicism in the idea that anyone is lucky there are more uninsured than anticipated, isn't the error in CBO's estimate almost entirely attributable to the states that chose not to take Medicaid expansion? In other words, the only reason CBO's estimates were off is because Republicans (in state government) didn't follow the statute as it was examined by CBO.
I think they did well. What they had to do was really to model human behavior -- to estimate how likely it is for someone to buy health insurance or pay the tax penalty. Other factors in those days were the fierce opposition and bad propaganda by ACA skeptics. It was a lot harder than Apple forecasting how many iPhone 7 units they will sell, and building enough so they don't run out before Christmas.

Most models go through many iterations, and you fine tune over time with more data to get closer to reality. The CBO results for ACA was their first iteration, with little precedent to go on.
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Old 03-14-17, 04:31 PM   #6006
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

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Originally Posted by Vibiana View Post
My ne'er-do-well youngest brother and his wife live on her disability pension, which is less than $1,000 per month. While I don't agree with how my brother has basically thrown away his life, and I would probably be accused of "enabling" him, I bought cell phones for him, his wife, and their 29 y/o son (who is similarly disinclined to work, no doubt as a result of his father's bad example). They are basic phones, not smartphones. They cost me about $50 apiece for the phone, and the additional lines on my account are about $45 each per month. I pay for them so that they can have unlimited talk and text.

If I had not done this and they had to pay for their own phones, the "pay as you go" plans on TracPhone and other services are horrendously expensive for people on limited incomes. If you just want a cell phone to use for an emergency, it's one thing. But just as with health care, in which the uninsured get ripped off while people with insurance get discounts, when it comes to telecommunications, the poor get rooked every time.
Okay, I'll bite... WHY?

You already realize you're enabling them, but why would you? Especially the 29 year old. He has no physical or mental impairment preventing him from working? Nor does your brother?

The other question is, why do they even need cell phones? It's not like they're going to have their car break down on the way home from work.

I'm baffled...
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Old 03-14-17, 04:51 PM   #6007
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

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Originally Posted by Vibiana View Post
But just as with health care, in which the uninsured get ripped off while people with insurance get discounts, when it comes to telecommunications, the poor get rooked every time.
Ooooo. That's a good subject. Car loans, credit cards, payday loans, pawn arrangements. Even checking accounts. The poor get so unbelievably fucked by that stuff. Payday and pawn is 90%-120% interest. Those risky car loans are 25% interest. Slipup on your checking account? Fuck you, that Circle K coffee just cost you $38. Most overdrafts count transactions biggest to smallest (though I believe Wells Fargo changed after they were sued). Need that money to live? Fuck you nobody cares.

They like to say they're there to help the poor (everyone needs a car!). But they're all predators. I suppose that's all for a different thread.
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Old 03-14-17, 07:38 PM   #6008
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

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Originally Posted by andicus View Post
Okay, I'll bite... WHY?

You already realize you're enabling them, but why would you? Especially the 29 year old. He has no physical or mental impairment preventing him from working? Nor does your brother?

The other question is, why do they even need cell phones? It's not like they're going to have their car break down on the way home from work.

I'm baffled...
One of my other brothers, who committed suicide in December because he was terminally ill, was the only other sibling besides me who had no children of his own. He used to help my brother out, and he's gone now.

I'm in a position to help, so I'm helping--more in tribute to my late brother than out of any feeling for them.

Also, like a lot of people, they don't have a land line--just cell phones.
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Old 03-15-17, 04:09 PM   #6009
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

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Old 03-17-17, 12:00 AM   #6010
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

Quote:
A woman who had been bleeding for 12 years came up behind Jesus and touched his clothes in hope of a cure. Jesus turned to her and said: “Fear not. Because of your faith, you are now healed.”

Then spoke Pious Paul of Ryan: “But teacher, is that wise? When you cure her, she learns dependency. Then the poor won’t take care of themselves, knowing that you’ll always bail them out! You must teach them personal responsibility!”

They were interrupted by 10 lepers who stood at a distance and shouted, “Jesus, have pity on us.”

“NO!” shouted Pious Paul. “Jesus! You don’t have time. We have a cocktail party fund-raiser in the temple. And don’t worry about them — they’ve already got health care access.”

Jesus turned to Pious Paul, puzzled.

“Why, they can pray for a cure,” Pious Paul explained. “I call that universal health care access.”

Jesus turned to the 10 lepers. “Rise and go,” he told them. “Your faith has made you well.” Then he turned back to Pious Paul, saying, “Let me tell you the story of the good Samaritan.

“A man was attacked by robbers who stripped him of clothes, beat him and left him half dead. A minister passed down this same road, and when he saw the injured man, he crossed to the other side and hurried on. So did a rich man who claimed to serve God. But then a despised Samaritan came by and took pity on the injured man. He bandaged his wounds and put the man on his own donkey and paid an innkeeper to nurse him to health. So which of these three should we follow?”

“Those who had mercy on him,” Pious Paul said promptly.

Jesus nodded. “So go ——”

“I mean the first two,” Pious Paul interjected. “For the Samaritan’s work is unsustainable and sends the wrong message. It teaches travelers to take dangerous roads, knowing that others will rescue them from self-destructive behaviors. This Samaritan also seems to think it right to redistribute money from those who are successful and give it to losers. That’s socialism! Meanwhile, if the rich man keeps his money, he can invest it and create jobs. So it’s an act of mercy for the rich man to hurry on and ignore the robbery victim.”

“How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of Heaven,” Jesus mused to himself. “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter heaven.”

“Let me teach you about love, Jesus — tough love!” Pious Paul explained. “You need a sustainable pro-business model. And you need to give people freedom, Jesus, the freedom to suffer misery and poverty.”

Read the rest of the story here: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/16/o...l-of-ryan.html
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Old 03-17-17, 07:03 AM   #6011
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

The CEO of Newsmax (Yes Newsmax) came out against the Republican plan. He's a buddy of Trump.

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Old 03-17-17, 01:55 PM   #6012
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

To quote Steve Perry : "Don't stop believin"

Whom to trust when it comes to health-care reform? Trump supporters put their faith in him.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.bae77820d466
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Old 03-17-17, 04:44 PM   #6013
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

Quote:
Originally Posted by EinCB View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY TIMES Opinion page
A woman who had been bleeding for 12 years came up behind Jesus and touched his clothes in hope of a cure. Jesus turned to her and said: “Fear not. Because of your faith, you are now healed.”

Then spoke Pious Paul of Ryan: “But teacher, is that wise? When you cure her, she learns dependency. Then the poor won’t take care of themselves, knowing that you’ll always bail them out! You must teach them personal responsibility!”
I don't think people should use religion to justify political/governmental legislation. I just did a cursory viewing of the writer's wiki page and it describes him as liberal/progressive. Based on that I'm assuming he would be against using religion to justify political decisions/laws and yet he's using Christianity for this same purpose.

I guess everyone, right or left of the political spectrum, will use religion when it suits them. I remember Michael Moore being asked if he was a socialist after his Sicko documentary came out and he replied, "I'm a Christian."
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Old 03-18-17, 03:08 AM   #6014
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

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Oh, college! It’s a time when young adults discover their professional interests, when they live alone for the first time, when many people come into their sexuality, and when youth get to explore other adult pleasures.

And, if you were House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-WI), it was a time to dream about how, someday, you would take health care away from millions of poor people.


In a conversation with the National Review’s Rich Lowry on Friday, Ryan bragged about how conservatives now have a once-in-a-generation opportunity to take health coverage away from the most vulnerable Americans.

“So Medicaid,” Ryan told Lowry, “sending it back to the states, capping its growth rate. We’ve been dreaming of this since I’ve been around — since you and I were drinking at a keg. . . . I’ve been thinking about this stuff for a long time. We’re on the cusp of doing something we’ve long believed in.”
Ryan is 47 years old, which means that, if he started “drinking at a keg” early in his college career, he’s fantasized about all the poor people who could be stripped of health care for nearly three decades.

https://thinkprogress.org/paul-ryan-...28b#.mv12zu7to
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Last edited by EinCB; 03-18-17 at 03:15 AM.
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Old 03-18-17, 03:29 AM   #6015
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

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Originally Posted by joeblow69 View Post
I think it depends ... if they aren't able to pass anything by november, when enrollment happens, I think they are stuck with obamacare for another year.

If they do, then you probably just won't be able to enroll in your same plan again for next year. Unless your state comes up with some other option (still praying for California single payer!)
Thanks for the response. That's what I was thinking too. Is California trying to do something like that?

What I found.

And another article against it here.

I'll have to go through them both, as well as finding out more about the issue.


I can understand the initial resistance to the Affordable Care Act but it seems that many of the people that I know who were against it have great health plans through their employer. Anything goes wrong, you're covered. But if you pay for health insurance outside of an employer it's either incredibly expensive to the point you'd have to be rich in order to get it, or you have to settle for some crazy deductibles, and even then it's really pricey, but doable. But...with those more affordable plans you are really limited in amount of visits, prescriptions, etc.
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Old 03-18-17, 11:27 AM   #6016
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

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Originally Posted by brayzie View Post
I don't think people should use religion to justify political/governmental legislation. I just did a cursory viewing of the writer's wiki page and it describes him as liberal/progressive. Based on that I'm assuming he would be against using religion to justify political decisions/laws and yet he's using Christianity for this same purpose.

I guess everyone, right or left of the political spectrum, will use religion when it suits them. I remember Michael Moore being asked if he was a socialist after his Sicko documentary came out and he replied, "I'm a Christian."
Not to mention if you do have total full responsibility and self accountability, shit happens.

Insurance by definition is a "risk sharing pool". It's just like home insurance. Home insurance started by only covering fire loss. Many, paid little so the few that had a fire wouldn't be devastated.

And we use risk sharing pools in a lot of area. A little of my taxes goes to the local fire department so I don't have to spend a ton on my personal fire fighters. Even tho I've never had the fire department out to my house, it makes sense to risk share for the few that do need the fire department.

I admit I was against the ACA. But seeing how many more got insurance, changed my mind.
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Old 03-21-17, 05:14 PM   #6017
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

Off topic but it should make andicus happy: I told my nephew I'm only paying for his cell phone for another month because he hasn't gotten a job in the month and a half since I got it for him. He claims he's "waiting to hear about a job" but that doesn't sound like someone who wants to work. No hustle? No help from Auntie Vibs. I'll continue paying for my sister-in-law's and my brother's phones because she's disabled and he takes care of her, which at least theoretically means he can't work. But you're right. There's no reason for me to pay for an able bodied 29 year old to text all day like some overgrown junior high schooler. He has over 1,300 texts just for the last three weeks alone. I shudder to think what they'd be costing me if I'd gotten them a data plan (I didn't).

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Old 03-21-17, 09:41 PM   #6018
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

Wait, wait wait... You're doing it wrong. This is Otter. You post a problem, people make suggestions, and you ignore them.

Seriously, though, good for you!

Yep. If he's waiting to hear about a job, he was time to still be looking in case that one doesn't come through. You know, if he's not too busy.
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Old 03-23-17, 08:00 PM   #6019
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

Guess who called me this afternoon to tell me he just got a job and starts tomorrow? He doesn't know it, but he only has a phone till April 1. A month of free phone is all he got out of his auntie. I feel mean and awful, but I'm standing my ground.
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Old 03-24-17, 02:43 PM   #6020
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

Wow! Let's see how long it lasts before he decides work is hard.
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Old 03-24-17, 05:05 PM   #6021
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Wow! Let's see how long it lasts before he decides work is hard.
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Old 03-25-17, 01:34 PM   #6022
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

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Old 03-27-17, 02:02 PM   #6023
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

LOL, GOP states now want to suck on the giant ACA teat.

Georgia to explore Medicaid waivers after GOP health plan’s implosion.
http://politics.blog.ajc.com/2017/03...ans-implosion/

Kansas Senate takes up Medicaid expansion days after Trump health plan’s collapse

http://www.kansascity.com/news/polit...#storylink=cpy
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Old 03-27-17, 03:50 PM   #6024
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

I'm amazed that House Republicans thought Ryan's bill didn't go far enough. They really do live in their own world.
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Old 03-27-17, 04:12 PM   #6025
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Re: Health Care discussion continues - part 9

I cannot understand how anyone can come down AGAINST healthcare for Americans. Yet we have a whole party that's currently dedicated to just that. They just can't agree how the best way to take it away.
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