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Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

View Poll Results: Is WikiLeaks holding back certain info for an early November release?
Yes, potentially damaging info is being temporarily withheld. 8 47.06%
No, the releases are haphazard. 9 52.94%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-01-10, 10:18 AM   #51
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Re: No wikileaks discussion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by burnside986 View Post
What about the fact that he claims to have asked the State Department for assistance in redacting info and they rejected it?

http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...033771,00.html
Assange is running an international espionage organization. The government absolutely shouldn't cooperate with Wikileaks -- "Help me redact these documents, or I'll release everything," is nothing more than blackmail.

Regardless of how harmful this data is, this is a black-eye for our international diplomacy. Who's going to trust our ambassadors when they know anything said in their presence might get leaked out with trenchant commentary?
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Old 12-01-10, 10:44 AM   #52
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Re: No wikileaks discussion?

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Originally Posted by raven56706 View Post
i look at it like this

Nothing good comes from these leaks. The arguments on the need for transparency and first amendment rights all ring hollow.There are no benefits here. Things are classified to protect sources and methods. There are very real people behind these sources and methods who have much to lose if revealed. This is not trivial stuff. The current release is a lot of diplomatic traffic that is less threatening to critical sources but no less damaging to U.S. diplomatic efforts. If I wasn't in a position to see first hand the incompetence of our government I might be open to some of these conspiracy type theories, but take my word for it. We are not that capable.

I wouldn't say nothing good. I think part of the last leak was information that showed the civilian casualties were much higher than reported in Iraq. But I could be getting mixed up.
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Old 12-01-10, 01:29 PM   #53
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Re: No wikileaks discussion?

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Originally Posted by Ranger View Post
Wikileaks moved their servers to amazon. Amazon really should cut the servers before the Russian stuff gets out.
Done: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101201/...leaks_amazon_2
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Old 12-01-10, 01:53 PM   #54
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Re: No wikileaks discussion?

Looks like Amazon got some pressure to take down the site:

http://www.aolnews.com/surge-desk/ar...bsite/19740475

Quote:
This morning Amazon informed my staff that it has ceased to host the Wikileaks website. I wish that Amazon had taken this action earlier based on Wikileaks' previous publication of classified material. The company's decision to cut off Wikileaks now is the right decision and should set the standard for other companies Wikileaks is using to distribute its illegally seized material. I call on any other company or organization that is hosting Wikileaks to immediately terminate its relationship with them. Wikileaks' illegal, outrageous, and reckless acts have compromised our national security and put lives at risk around the world. No responsible company - whether American or foreign - should assist Wikileaks in its efforts to disseminate these stolen materials. I will be asking Amazon about the extent of its relationship with Wikileaks and what it and other web service providers will do in the future to ensure that their services are not used to distribute stolen, classified information.
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Old 12-01-10, 01:54 PM   #55
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Re: No wikileaks discussion?

Generally speaking, I tend to agree with the BBC article I linked on the previous page. Diplomacy could use more transparency, but there should be limits to that transparency (during active conflicts and some negotiations for example). Not all diplomacy requires a shroud of secrecy and since diplomacy is supposed to be conducted in the national interest (i.e. in the interest of the country and it's people), the people have the right to be informed. Furthermore, it would facilitate the job of journalists (diplomacy could use some feedback) and historians. The 50 year rule (in the UK, dunno what it is in the US) before classified documents get released is ridiculous. You have history books that get written and become "official history" before massive amounts of information is available. And then, those who write history books based on declassified information are accused of being revisionists...
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Old 12-01-10, 02:02 PM   #56
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Re: No wikileaks discussion?

Good for Amazon.
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Old 12-01-10, 03:01 PM   #57
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Re: No wikileaks discussion?

Surprisingly, I'm finding myself not really having that much of a problem with the publication of this information. In fact, I admire--not him personally, but that one person like any of us could cause so much churn in the world. People may be reacting viscerally to this, but I just can't generate such a strong reaction, personally.
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Old 12-01-10, 04:29 PM   #58
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Re: No wikileaks discussion?

This guy has an interesting perspective on the leaks.

Wikileaks and the death of American badassery

Quote:
News media presents an image of reality that people sense is bullshit but would like to live up to anyway. As an example, Wikileaks revealed that American diplomats think England's Prince Andrew is a rude asshole, but suddenly that's controversial when it's leaked. Why? Because Prince Andrew probably is an asshole but that isn't allowed to be known, voicing that experience off the record by those who've met him is a non allowable media experience, instead, the media consensus (and so the manufactured one) is that Prince Andrew is automatically good because he's a prince. No reporter ever ran the story of Prince Andrew being a prick as it doesn't make for a good story because the rich don't like the idea of it and the plebs don't need to know anyway. When Wikileaks document dumps the truth that American diplomats who've met him think that way, everyone ends up shocked.
and the best line of the whole thing:

Quote:
A US city getting glassed by a nuke in an uninspected ship container freely rolled into a US harbor while the TSA searches your granny's tits for a silicon implant bomb. Talk about security theater... It's a story that should be on the front page of every US newspaper everyday. But it isn't. It took a document dump to the world's media to even be elevated to the point of a news story. If that isn't a total failure of popular journalism then I don't know what is.
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Old 12-01-10, 04:34 PM   #59
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Re: No wikileaks discussion?

Damn, the media covered up a US city getting nuked?
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Old 12-01-10, 05:42 PM   #60
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Re: No wikileaks discussion?

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Originally Posted by starman9000 View Post
Damn, the media covered up a US city getting nuked?
pro nuke bias
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Old 12-01-10, 05:46 PM   #61
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Re: No wikileaks discussion?

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Originally Posted by Venusian View Post
pro nuke bias
This explains the lack of responses in the state check-in thread.
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Old 12-01-10, 05:57 PM   #62
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Re: No wikileaks discussion?

Quote:
Canada has an "almost inherent inferiority complex" when it comes to its US neighbours, a diplomatic cable released by WikiLeaks today says.

The cable titled 'The US in the Canadian Federal Election - NOT!' laments a lack of attention to Canada-US relations during the 2008 Canadian federal election.

Its author, former US ambassador to Canada David Wilkins, attributes the silence to an inferiority complex.

"Despite the overwhelming importance of the US to Canada for its economy and security, bilateral relations remain the proverbial 900 pound gorilla that no one wants to talk about.

"This likely reflects an almost inherent inferiority complex of Canadians vis-a-vis their sole neighbor."
Dear 900 pound gorilla,

We acknowledge your presence and your need to throw poo because you crave attention and suffer from chronic arrogance and self-importance, but when it comes to electing our government, you are pretty low in our list of priorities.

Here's a

Cheers,

Canadians

... ...
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Old 12-01-10, 08:55 PM   #63
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Re: No wikileaks discussion?

I thought you were moving to Arizona?
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Old 12-01-10, 09:08 PM   #64
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Re: No wikileaks discussion?

Let Canada fell good for a secong, man.
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Old 12-01-10, 09:13 PM   #65
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Re: No wikileaks discussion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by starman9000 View Post
Damn, the media covered up a US city getting nuked?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venusian View Post
pro nuke bias
Quote:
Originally Posted by starman9000 View Post
This explains the lack of responses in the state check-in thread.
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Old 12-01-10, 10:51 PM   #66
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Re: No wikileaks discussion?

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Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
Let Canada fell good for a secong, man.
Thanks!

A lot of these tabloid like "revelations" are just funny. I mean the current US ambassador to Canada had to come and be interviewed on the CBC today to set the record straight. As if this stuff would have any impact whatsoever on Canada-US relations. It will probably make for some funny skits on comedy shows but aside from that, meh...

Another leak had the same previous US ambassador complaining that a CBC show ("The Border") did not always paint Americans in a favorable light and that some were even made into vilains! For God's sakes, don't ambassadors have better things to do with their time?
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Old 12-01-10, 11:15 PM   #67
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Re: No wikileaks discussion?

One article I read said one of the cables bluntly described an African country ( I can't recall exactly which one) as the shit hole it was and had a quote from their foreign minister saying the US State Department had already called to apologize. I can only imagine what kind of weak "I'm sorry if you were offended" type of apology that was.
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Old 12-01-10, 11:40 PM   #68
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Re: No wikileaks discussion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eXcentris View Post
Thanks!

A lot of these tabloid like "revelations" are just funny. I mean the current US ambassador to Canada had to come and be interviewed on the CBC today to set the record straight. As if this stuff would have any impact whatsoever on Canada-US relations. It will probably make for some funny skits on comedy shows but aside from that, meh...

Another leak had the same previous US ambassador complaining that a CBC show ("The Border") did not always paint Americans in a favorable light and that some were even made into vilains! For God's sakes, don't ambassadors have better things to do with their time?
Yeah, I don't see any damage. Both countries tend to take each other for granted. When you look at geo politics, it is tough to find two countries that get along as well as we do. And even though we joke, our values, etc. aren't really that different. Hell Canada would fall within the spectrum of many states' personalities.
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Old 12-02-10, 12:02 AM   #69
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Re: No wikileaks discussion?

States that have been nuked, you mean?
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Old 12-02-10, 07:47 AM   #70
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Re: No wikileaks discussion?

Detroit appears as if it were nuked
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Old 12-02-10, 07:53 AM   #71
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Re: No wikileaks discussion?

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Originally Posted by raven56706 View Post
Detroit appears as if it were nuked
Ha, so now it is an ex-state.
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Old 12-02-10, 08:55 AM   #72
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Re: No wikileaks discussion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eXcentris View Post
Generally speaking, I tend to agree with the BBC article I linked on the previous page. Diplomacy could use more transparency, but there should be limits to that transparency (during active conflicts and some negotiations for example). Not all diplomacy requires a shroud of secrecy and since diplomacy is supposed to be conducted in the national interest (i.e. in the interest of the country and it's people), the people have the right to be informed. Furthermore, it would facilitate the job of journalists (diplomacy could use some feedback) and historians. The 50 year rule (in the UK, dunno what it is in the US) before classified documents get released is ridiculous. You have history books that get written and become "official history" before massive amounts of information is available. And then, those who write history books based on declassified information are accused of being revisionists...
Who gets to decide?
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Old 12-02-10, 09:51 AM   #73
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Re: No wikileaks discussion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eXcentris View Post
Dear 900 pound gorilla,

We acknowledge your presence and your need to throw poo because you crave attention and suffer from chronic arrogance and self-importance, but when it comes to electing our government, you are pretty low in our list of priorities.

Here's a

Cheers,

Canadians

... ...
Don't worry, you're from Quebec. Americans only care about the English speaking parts of Canada.
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Old 12-02-10, 10:05 AM   #74
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Re: No wikileaks discussion?

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Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
Don't worry, you're from Quebec. Americans only care about the English speaking parts of Canada.
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Old 12-02-10, 12:37 PM   #75
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Re: No wikileaks discussion?

Am I the only one thats already sick of this shit?

Funny though that Amazon won't host their site, but will still stand by selling that NAMBLA guide. (Not that I blame them for doing so in the anti-censorship sense, but c'mon, double standard.)
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