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Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

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Old 05-05-10, 03:44 PM   #51
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Re: This is what the "War on Drugs" looks like

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Originally Posted by CaptainMarvel View Post
He wasn't DEA. He was a local podunk officer working on a task force, and that guy is a disgrace. He was featured on NPR's "This American Life" a few weeks back, and he was a total fuckstick. He admitted to all sorts of unethical and illegal behavior while he was a police officer, such as trying to incite people into a pursuit. I believe he got caught taking money off somebody, but I can't remember if it was prosecution or a civil suit that ended up costing him his job. When he got caught and his administration didn't support him, that's when he decided to he was going after police, and he decided to try to parlay that into a money making scheme.

I have absolutely zero problem with people trying to catch the police in unethical behavior, but to hold that douche bag up as some sort of hero is absurd. He's a shitty person doing an admirable thing for the wrong reasons.

Edit: It was Episode 405: Inside Job for anybody interested. His department didn't support him after an illegal search, which pissed him off, so he left the force, got onto drugs, and started trying to catch cops. He admits to lying to obtain warrants, stealing money, and all sorts of other illegal behavior.

That's not how I remember the interview, but it's been a good while. None the less, this video makes me feel like officers really get a kick out of disrupting ordinary people's lives.
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Old 05-05-10, 03:50 PM   #52
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Re: This is what the "War on Drugs" looks like

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I know (or have known) three "dealers," by which I mean people who I knew could reliably sell me an ounce of pot if I were so inclined. I'd be surprised if any of them had handled anything more dangerous than a pair of scissors.
That's all it takes, friendo. I saw a movie last year (may have been a documentary) about a "harmless drug dealer" who had a pot stash growing in the back woods near an abandoned summer camp. Some kids stumbled upon it and he killed them all in a variety of gruesome ways -- none of which involved a gun.
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Old 05-05-10, 04:08 PM   #53
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Re: This is what the "War on Drugs" looks like

I hear lots of justification about how well-armed these drug dealers are and how the police need to be sure they won't be walking into an ambush.

Where are these cases where drug dealers are getting into Waco-style standoffs with police? Where are these shootouts occurring? Mexico?
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Old 05-05-10, 04:55 PM   #54
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Re: This is what the "War on Drugs" looks like

Same thing happened to the mayor of a small Maryland town a couple of years ago. SWAT teams burst in, shot both of his labrador retrievers dead (one as it was trying to run away to a bedroom), ransacked his house, and terrorized him & his family for four hours. They found nothing & are also standing by the "just doing our job" mentality.

http://www.examiner.com/x-536-Civil-...sparks-lawsuit

Last edited by Eddie W; 05-05-10 at 05:02 PM.
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Old 05-05-10, 05:07 PM   #55
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Re: This is what the "War on Drugs" looks like

The SWAT team needs to be going after REAL criminals, like the Hispanic guy who is walking to the store and left his ID at home.
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Old 05-05-10, 05:32 PM   #56
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Re: This is what the "War on Drugs" looks like

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Originally Posted by Birrman54 View Post
I hear lots of justification about how well-armed these drug dealers are and how the police need to be sure they won't be walking into an ambush.

Where are these cases where drug dealers are getting into Waco-style standoffs with police? Where are these shootouts occurring? Mexico?
I'm not sure what you expect to see in response to this question. For that past few decades, high risk warrants have been usually served by tactical teams or by officers using similar tactics and training so as to prevent and minimize the sort of incident to which you're referring. We adopt policy B to prevent event A from happening, then the subsequent lack of event A happening is now used to attack policy B?

The Bureau of Justice Statistics, as far as I know, doesn't track deaths or injuries during warrant service (or more accurately, I don't believe they classify them as specifically taking place during warrant service).

So for the years 1999-2008:



Deaths during search warrant and arrest warrant service (other than the the sort of arrest warrant service where you pull over somebody and, hey, they've got a warrant) would either fall into the categories ambush situation, tactical situation, investigative activity, or all other, but I'm not sure there's any way to break down what deaths or injuries fell where.

EDIT: What you CAN do is search for drug raids that netted caches of weapons. Those are all over the place. I'm not sure what purpose people believe these weapons are supposed to serve other than to protect their drug business, either from the police or competitors.

Last edited by CaptainMarvel; 05-05-10 at 05:35 PM.
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Old 05-05-10, 06:21 PM   #57
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Re: This is what the "War on Drugs" looks like

I'd just like to add that I'm another who is disgusted by this video.

I'm surprised more people aren't upset about the dog. If anything the dog was just scared shitless because a shitload of Stormtroopers burst through the door in the middle of the night. The dog probably thought her family was in danger. Which of course they were.

Over fucking pot...

The government/police should be ashamed of themselves over this.
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Old 05-05-10, 07:12 PM   #58
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Re: This is what the "War on Drugs" looks like

apparently this is the kind of nation we want to live in

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Old 05-05-10, 07:43 PM   #59
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Re: This is what the "War on Drugs" looks like

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I know a guy who started with pot, moved to cocaine, and now runs the world's largest criminal organization. His thugs go around killing people in third world countries, sometimes including American citizens who've betrayed his organizations. The cops should go after him, but he lives in a mansion, in the middle of a real shit-hole city, full of armed paramilitary troops who are sworn to die for him.
I can think of two... and possibly three... people who that could be.
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Old 05-07-10, 09:21 PM   #60
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Re: This is what the "War on Drugs" looks like

A great quote on this subject:

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"Do we really want to live in a country where when someone busts into your house at night you're supposed to assume they might be cops?"
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Old 05-08-10, 05:02 PM   #61
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Re: This is what the "War on Drugs" looks like

Our country is so fucked up and yet we as Americans just sit here and take it. How come in other countries people actually go out and protest? We just sit here and watch police brutality or whatever you want to classify this fucked up situation as, and do nothing about it. We've been fed with so much propaganda that everything is all good and fine.. that these kinda situations are just cops doing their job to protect us. Really?

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Old 05-08-10, 07:44 PM   #62
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Re: This is what the "War on Drugs" looks like

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I'd just like to add that I'm another who is disgusted by this video.

I'm surprised more people aren't upset about the dog. If anything the dog was just scared shitless because a shitload of Stormtroopers burst through the door in the middle of the night. The dog probably thought her family was in danger. Which of course they were.

Over fucking pot...

The government/police should be ashamed of themselves over this.

I have read about this video at other websites, and I am so upset by what I read, that I am not going to watch it.
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Old 05-09-10, 10:52 PM   #63
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Video of Columbia, Missouri SWAT team conducting a search, shooting dogs

Here's an interesting video:



It's of the Columbia, Missouri SWAT team doing a search warrant on a suspected narcotics dealer, and they shot both of his dogs while they were at it. The pit bull died, the corgi survived. The officers found a few grams of marijuana.

The guy was later charged with possession of drug paraphernalia, possession of marijuana and second-degree child endangerment (he ultimately pled guilty to a misdemeanor charge for possessing drug paraphernalia and paid a $300 fine according to Missouri's Case.net -- all other charges were dropped).
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Old 05-09-10, 11:32 PM   #64
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Re: Video of Columbia, Missouri SWAT team conducting a search, shooting dogs

Is there more to the story that we're missing here? I mean, it does seem like a bit much for a simple pot bust, unless this guy was dealing major $$$ and/or suspected of selling other drugs.

Why was this video taped and posted online in the first place?
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Old 05-09-10, 11:36 PM   #65
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Re: Video of Columbia, Missouri SWAT team conducting a search, shooting dogs

The police thought that the guy was a cocaine dealer. I don't know why it's online, though it was obviously a police video.
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Old 05-10-10, 12:43 AM   #66
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Re: Video of Columbia, Missouri SWAT team conducting a search, shooting dogs

FYI, there's a lengthy thread on this in Politics Talk:

http://forum.dvdtalk.com/politics-wo...ooks-like.html
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Old 05-10-10, 02:59 AM   #67
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Re: This is what the "War on Drugs" looks like

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Originally Posted by wildcatlh View Post
It's sad how this post will be completely ignored. This is the kind of thing that I read about in school. That is, I read about it happening in Nazi Germany. Or Communist Russia. This happens in the United States of America. Every single day. This happened over A JOINT.

This country's priorities are beyond screwed up.
In NAZI Germany and COMMUNIST Russia...they'd be shooting people, my friend. Not dogs. The dogs would live. The people who owned the dogs...would be lined up outside their homes and shot in full public view.

This is certainly not a Nazi country...or a Communist one.

But I'll tell you what kind of country this is. It's a cowardice country. We shy away from killing terrorists. Instead, we finance them and hope they won't turn against us. Instead we sacrifice thousands of our own people in a foreign land to kill a few guys who might be terrorists. Like in the video here, we have GI JOE wannabes shooting pets, and probably forming a circle jerk at the local evidence room while the video is replayed. The war on drugs is more akin to a war on common sense. These dickweeds (pun intended) probably own every Tom Clancy Splinter Cell PC game there is.

Send these War On Drug heroes to Turkey and Afghanistan and let them face those drug dealers. They'd come back crying like little girls. They have no idea what a war is, and will more than likely stick to their residential home-sacking...because it's easy and it's probably the only thing they feel confident about. Put them up against real drug warriors and they would immediately form a frozen stance while pee trickled down their pants.

No, this country is very very far from being as bold as Nazis or Communists.
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Old 05-10-10, 07:29 AM   #68
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Re: This is what the "War on Drugs" looks like

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Originally Posted by wildcatlh View Post
It's sad how this post will be completely ignored. This is the kind of thing that I read about in school. That is, I read about it happening in Nazi Germany. Or Communist Russia. This happens in the United States of America. Every single day. This happened over A JOINT.

This country's priorities are beyond screwed up.
i've lived in communist russia and know a lot of people who came to the US in their 30's, 40's and 50's. this is nothing like it.

back in the old country the police once came to our door because we used to go visit family for a few weeks at a time in another city. apparently that was illegal. i have some distant family that was arrested during Stalin's times. they were taken away one day and never seen again. about 20 minutes outside of moscow there is a town with a hill outside of it. that hill didn't exist until the 1930's.

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Old 05-10-10, 09:26 AM   #69
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Re: Video of Columbia, Missouri SWAT team conducting a search, shooting dogs

hey at least it wasn't the mayor's dog this time.
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Old 05-10-10, 09:40 AM   #70
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Re: Video of Columbia, Missouri SWAT team conducting a search, shooting dogs

Silly swat team. Why are you shooting dogs? You are supposed to shoot people.
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Old 05-10-10, 10:16 AM   #71
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Re: Video of Columbia, Missouri SWAT team conducting a search, shooting dogs

At least it was a pit bull.
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Old 05-10-10, 01:00 PM   #72
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Re: Video of Columbia, Missouri SWAT team conducting a search, shooting dogs

This happens very regularly. There a lot of coverage about these raids and the killing of pets over at www.theagitator.com
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Old 05-10-10, 04:41 PM   #73
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Re: This is what the "War on Drugs" looks like

This might be a weak argument, but it's one that came to mind. Having worked (civilian) law enforcement before, for 11 years, I've seen numerous raids first hand, and more often than not, the suspects are in custody before they even have a minute of conscious thought to consider whether the intruders are police or home invaders and consider a response. That's why police use the tactics they do - diversions, non lethal explosive devices, cover/concealment, night, etc. They want the suspect in cuffs before they have a chance to reach for any potential firearm, regardless of who the suspect believes is entering the house. That is the ideal situation, and that is why police use force - to overpower the subject.

I believe anyone that is comparing this type of raid to Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia is either being intentionally inflammatory or historically ignorant. In Nazi Germany, the subjects of similiar raids did not have the opportunity to raise concerns about their dead dog after the fact, nor were their children escorted out of harm's way by officers serving the warrant. They were exterminated, plain and simple.

To say that today's police force is similiar to that of Nazi Germany is similiar to suggesting pot smokers are all heavily armed drug dealers bent on world domination and a complete revolution of any governmental standard. They are both ridiculous conclusions. Anyone making either claim should be ashamed of themselves.
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Old 05-10-10, 04:44 PM   #74
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Re: This is what the "War on Drugs" looks like

Well said, BradJ. This thread has the worst hyperbole I've ever seen on the internet.
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Old 05-10-10, 05:54 PM   #75
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Re: This is what the "War on Drugs" looks like

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Originally Posted by BradJ View Post
This might be a weak argument, but it's one that came to mind. Having worked (civilian) law enforcement before, for 11 years, I've seen numerous raids first hand, and more often than not, the suspects are in custody before they even have a minute of conscious thought to consider whether the intruders are police or home invaders and consider a response. That's why police use the tactics they do - diversions, non lethal explosive devices, cover/concealment, night, etc. They want the suspect in cuffs before they have a chance to reach for any potential firearm, regardless of who the suspect believes is entering the house. That is the ideal situation, and that is why police use force - to overpower the subject.

I believe anyone that is comparing this type of raid to Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia is either being intentionally inflammatory or historically ignorant. In Nazi Germany, the subjects of similiar raids did not have the opportunity to raise concerns about their dead dog after the fact, nor were their children escorted out of harm's way by officers serving the warrant. They were exterminated, plain and simple.

To say that today's police force is similiar to that of Nazi Germany is similiar to suggesting pot smokers are all heavily armed drug dealers bent on world domination and a complete revolution of any governmental standard. They are both ridiculous conclusions. Anyone making either claim should be ashamed of themselves.
Here's the real difference between the US and Nazi Germany. We get a suspect in custody using force, fine. In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate, yet equally important groups: the police who investigate crime, and the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders.

These people are not being carted off to some detainment camp. They're being represented by two different branches of government for a reason.
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