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Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

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Old 12-08-09, 11:53 AM   #1
kvrdave
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Flight 297 Houston to Atlanta....you read this?

Here isthe email
Quote:
One week ago, I went to Ohio on business and to see my father. On Tuesday, November the 17th, I returned home. If you read the papers the 18th you may have seen a blurb where a AirTran flight was cancelled from Atlanta to Houston due to a man who refused to get off of his cell phone before takeoff. It was on Fox.

This was NOT what happened.

I was in 1st class coming home. 11 Muslim men got on the plane in full attire. 2 sat in 1st class and the rest peppered themselves throughout the plane all the way to the back. As the plane taxied to the runway the stewardesses gave the safety spiel we are all so familiar with. At that time, one of the men got on his cell and called one of his companions in the back and proceeded to talk on the phone in Arabic very loudly and very aggressively. This took the 1st stewardess out of the picture for she repeatedly told the man that cell phones were not permitted at the time. He ignored her as if she was not there.

The 2nd man who answered the phone did the same and this took out the 2nd stewardess. In the back of the plane at this time, 2 younger Muslims, one in the back, isle, and one in front of him, window, began to show footage of a porno they had taped the night before, and were very loud about it. Now….they are only permitted to do this prior to Jihad. If a Muslim man goes into a strip club, he has to view the woman via mirror with his back to her. (don’t ask me….I don’t make the rules, but I’ve studied) The 3rd stewardess informed them that they were not to have electronic devices on at this time. To which one of the men said “shut up infidel dog!” She went to take the camcorder and he began to scream in her face in Arabic. At that exact moment, all 11 of them got up and started to walk the cabin. This is where I had had enough! I got up and started to the back where I heard a voice behind me from another Texan twice my size say “I got your back.” I grabbed the man who had been on the phone by the arm and said “you WILL go sit down or you Will be thrown from this plane!” As I “led” him around me to take his seat, the fellow Texan grabbed him by the back of his neck and his waist and headed out with him. I then grabbed the 2nd man and said, “You WILL do the same!” He protested but adrenaline was flowing now and he was going to go. As I escorted him forward the plane doors open and 3 TSA agents and 4 police officers entered. Me and my new Texan friend were told to cease and desist for they had this under control. I was happy to oblige actually. There was some commotion in the back, but within moments, all 11 were escorted off the plane. They then unloaded their luggage.

We talked about the occurrence and were in disbelief that it had happen, when suddenly, the door open again and on walked all 11!! Stone faced, eyes front and robotic (the only way I can describe it). The stewardess from the back had been in tears and when she saw this, she was having NONE of it! Being that I was up front, I heard and saw the whole ordeal. She told the TSA agent there was NO WAY she was staying on the plane with these men. The agent told her they had searched them and were going to go through their luggage with a fine tooth comb and that they were allowed to proceed to Houston. The captain and co-captain came out and told the agent “we and our crew will not fly this plane!” After a word or two, the entire crew, luggage in tow, left the plane. 5 minutes later, the cabin door opened again and a whole new crew walked on.

Again…..this is where I had had enough!!! I got up and asked “What the hell is going on!?!?” I was told to take my seat. They were sorry for the delay and I would be home shortly. I said “I’m getting off this plane”. The stewardess sternly told me that she could not allow me to get off. (now I’m mad!) I said “I am a grown man who bought this ticket, who’s time is mine with a family at home and I am going through that door, or I’m going through that door with you under my arm!! But I am going through that door!!” And I heard a voice behind me say “so am I”. Then everyone behind us started to get up and say the same.. Within 2 minutes, I was walking off that plane where I was met with more agents who asked me to write a statement. I had 5 hours to kill at this point so why the hell not. Due to the amount of people who got off that flight, it was cancelled. I was supposed to be in Houston at 6pm. I got here at 12:30am.

Look up the date. Flight 297 Atlanta to Houston.

If this wasn’t a dry run, I don’t know what one is. The terrorists wanted to see how TSA would handle it, how the crew would handle it, and how the passengers would handle it.

I’m telling this to you because I want you to know….
The threat is real. I saw it with my own eyes….
And the snopes link http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/flight297.asp

For whatever reason, I can't seem to copy and paste from Snopes. The email is repeated and their take on it is also written.


Very interesting stuff. Anyone believe dry runs are still being done?
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Old 12-08-09, 11:59 AM   #2
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Re: Flight 297 Houston to Atlanta....you read this?

Each story on that Snopes page is completely different. I suspect there's a nugget of truth in each.

I also think that any terrorists doing a dry run would attempt to be less obvious about it. My guess is that these were just your run-of-the-mill foreign douchebags.
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Old 12-08-09, 12:08 PM   #3
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Re: Flight 297 Houston to Atlanta....you read this?

Quote:
To which one of the men said “shut up infidel dog!”
Yes, someone actually said this.
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Old 12-08-09, 12:14 PM   #4
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Re: Flight 297 Houston to Atlanta....you read this?

Wouldn't a planeload of Texan's want too kick some Muslim ass? Let's Roll Pardner!
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Old 12-08-09, 12:39 PM   #5
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Re: Flight 297 Houston to Atlanta....you read this?

If it happened as described and wasn't a dry run, those are the stupidest guys I've read about today. I'm sure tabs will be kept on them for quite some time. That said, what's a muslim look like? Were they wearing ghutras?
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Old 12-08-09, 12:42 PM   #6
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Re: Flight 297 Houston to Atlanta....you read this?

Here's AirTran's response:

Quote:
BREAKING NEWS UPDATE

After conducting additional research into this situation, we have verified, according to flight manifests (legally binding documents) that the individual that allegedly created a first-hand account of events on-board AirTran Airways flight 297, a Theodore Petruna, was never actually on-board the flight.

According to all available records, Mr. Petruna’s trip originated from Akron-Canton, Ohio (CAK) on AirTran flight 205. This flight arrived at the gate in Atlanta at 5:06 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. Flight 297, the flight which Mr. Petruna allegedly wrote a first-hand account of, originally pushed back from its gate in Atlanta at 4:40 p.m. EST, a full 26 minutes before flight 205 arrived at the gate in Atlanta making this flight connection impossible.

While Mr. Petruna was originally scheduled to begin his journey on AirTran flight 202 from CAK and connect to flight 297 in Atlanta he did not make that original flight.

On November 17, 2009, AirTran flight 297 was scheduled to travel from Atlanta to Houston-Hobby. During taxi a passenger was non-compliant with Crew Members, using a cell phone and taking pictures. The flight taxied back to the gate and the passenger, who did not speak English, and his companion acting as his interpreter were asked to de-plane. They were met by customer service personnel and TSA.

The passengers were allowed to re-board and continued on the flight after speaking with AirTran and TSA representatives. The flight was delayed by more than two hours.

Since the flight and initial media reports, several blogs and Internet sites have recounted the incident as portrayed by a passenger originally scheduled for the flight. Below is that passenger’s account (unedited in any way including spelling and grammar), as reported on several blogs. Highlighted between the passenger’s account, are the factually accurate circumstances surrounding this incident.

We bring this to your attention in order to dispel myths that are beginning to make the rounds in chat rooms, blogs and conspiracy theorists’ Web sites.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
—————————————————————————————————
Quote:
I was in first class coming home. Eleven muslim men got on the plane in full attire. Two sat in first class and the rest peppered themselves throughout the plane all the way to the back.
The full party was 13 individuals. Their religion is not known to anyone at AirTran. The individuals in this party proceeded to their seats throughout the aircraft and were dressed like any other passenger.

Quote:
As the plane taxied to the runway, the stewardesses gave the safety spiel we are all so familiar with.

At that time, one of the men got on his cell and called one of his companions in the back and proceeded to talk on the phone in Arabic very loudly and very aggressively. This took the first stewardess out of the picture for she repeatedly told the man that cell phones were not permitted at the time. He ignored her as if she wasn’t there.
There have been no reports of any individual phoning any other individual on the flight. Furthermore it would be extremely difficult to know who someone is calling. If they are calling someone in the back of the plane, the person listening in on this conversation would not be able to hear the person in the back of the plane nor know where the call was going to.

Quote:
The second man who answered the phone did the same and this took out the second stewardess. In the back of the plane at this time, 2 younger muslims, one in the back aisle, and one in front of him, window, began to show footage of a porno they had taped the night before, and were very loud about it.
It would be impossible to know what people were allegedly watching or whom they were speaking with in the back of the plane from Business Class. Furthermore, how would anyone know what was on this alleged videotape or when it was made?

Quote:
Now, they are only permitted to do this prior to Jihad. If a Muslim man goes into a strip club, he has to view the woman via mirror with his back to her (don’t ask me, I don’t make the rules, but I’ve studied). The third stewardess informed them that they were not to have electronic devices on at this time. To which one of the men said, “Shut up, infidel dog!” She went to take the camcorder and he began to scream in her face in Arabic.
While the flight attendants did ask an individual to discontinue the use of portable electronic devices, there are no reports of screaming or shouting insults to our Crew Members.

Quote:
At that exact moment, all 11 of them got up and started to walk to the cabin. This is where I had had enough! I got up and started to the back where I heard a voice behind me from another Texan twice my size say, “I got your back.” I grabbed the man who had been on the phone by the arm and said, “you WILL go sit down or you Will be thrown from this plane!”
There are no reports of any passenger standing up in a threatening manner. At NO time was there any physical altercation between passengers. Upon returning to the gate, the individual on the phone and his party were asked to de-plane and did so in full compliance of Crew Members’ instructions.

Quote:
As I led him around me to take his seat, the fellow Texan grabbed him by the back of his neck and his waist and headed out with him. I then grabbed the second man and said, “You WILL do the same!”
This is simply untrue. At NO time was there any physical altercation between passengers.

Quote:
He protested but adrenaline was flowing now and he was going to go. As I escorted him forward, the plane doors open and 3 TSA agents and 4 police officers entered.
At no time did any law enforcement or Transportation Security Administration (TSA) official enter the aircraft. Two TSA inspectors came to the gate to assess the situation and spoke with the individual involved and his party.

Quote:
Me and my new Texan friend were told to cease and desist for they had this under control. I was happy to oblige actually. There was some commotion in the back, but within moments, all 11 were escorted off the plane. They then unloaded their luggage.
The entire party complied fully with Crew Members’ instructions to exit the aircraft in order to ascertain the situation. Their bags were not removed at any time.

Quote:
We talked about the occurrence and were in disbelief that it had happened, when suddenly, the door opened again and on walked all eleven!!
After determining none of the individuals posed a security threat to the aircraft, the party was allowed to re-plane.

Quote:
Stone faced, eyes front and robotic (the only way I can describe it). The stewardess from the back had been in tears and when she saw this, she was having NONE of it! Being that I was up front, I heard and saw the whole ordeal. She told the TSA agent there was NO WAY she was staying on the plane with these men.
There was no TSA or law enforcement agent ever on the plane.

Quote:
The agent told her they had searched them and were going to go through their luggage with a fine tooth comb and that they were allowed to proceed to Houston.
There was no TSA agent on the plane and there was no additional screening of anyone’s bags.

Quote:
The captain and co-captain came out and told the agent, “we and our crew will not fly this plane!” After a word or two, the entire crew, luggage in tow, left the plane. Five minutes later, the cabin door opened again and a whole new crew walked on.
The crews were swapped. This is a common occurrence in the aviation industry for any number of reasons. If a Crew Member cannot or will not continue a flight, we must replace that Crew Member.

Quote:
Again, this is where I had had enough!! I got up and asked, “What the hell is going on?” I was told to take my seat. They were sorry for the delay and I would be home shortly. I said, “I’m getting off this plane.” The stewardess sternly told me that she could not allow me to get off.

Now I’m mad! I said, “I am a grown man who bought this ticket, who’s time is mine with a family at home and I am going through that door, or I’m going through that door with you under my arm!! But I am going through that door!!”
At no time did any AirTran Crew Member refuse to allow a passenger off the plane. Had any passenger threatened a Crew Member, we would have taken appropriate action, including contacting law enforcement.

Quote:
And I heard a voice behind me say, “So am I.” Then everyone behind us started to get up and say the same. Within 2 minutes, I was walking off that plane where I was met with more agents who asked me to write a statement. I had 5 hours to kill at this point so why the hell not. Due to the amount of people who got off that flight, it was cancelled. I was supposed to be in Houston at 6pm. I got here at 12:30am.
After offering all passengers the opportunity to de-plane the aircraft, 12 individuals decided to not take this flight and opted to be re-booked. AirTran officials did not request any passenger to complete an official statement.

The flight was not cancelled and did continue to Houston-Hobby

Quote:
Look up the date. Flight 297, Atlanta to Houston.
The flight was not cancelled and did continue to Houston-Hobby

Quote:
If this wasn’t a dry run, I don’t know what one is. They wanted to see how TSA would handle it, how the crew would handle it, and how the passengers would handle it. I’m telling this to you because I want you to know. The threat is real. I saw it with my own eyes.The flight was not cancelled and did continue to Houston-Hobby.
The TSA determined this was a customer service issue. The party continued on the flight to Houston-Hobby that evening without further incident.
http://www.insideairtran.com/?p=2200

Of course, I suspect that the True Believers will simply point out that AirTran is In On It, and they are covering up for the Muslim terrorists and their sinister plan to practice a hijacking by talking loudly on their cell phones, watching homemade porn, and generally attracting as much attention to themselves as possible while the plane is still on the tarmac.
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Old 12-08-09, 12:48 PM   #7
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Re: Flight 297 Houston to Atlanta....you read this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
Of course, I suspect that the True Believers will simply point out that AirTran is In On It, and they are covering up for the Muslim terrorists and their sinister plan to practice a hijacking by talking loudly on their cell phones, watching homemade porn, and generally attracting as much attention to themselves as possible while the plane is still on the tarmac.
Whoa now, this isn't Global Warming we are talking about.
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Old 12-08-09, 12:48 PM   #8
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Re: Flight 297 Houston to Atlanta....you read this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxfisher View Post
That said, what's a muslim look like? Were they wearing ghutras?
It was actually a group of people who spoke only Spanish (and therefore didn't understand the stewardess's instruction to turn off their cell phone).

So I would imagine the answer to your question is "brown."
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Old 12-08-09, 12:57 PM   #9
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Re: Flight 297 Houston to Atlanta....you read this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
Of course, I suspect that the True Believers will simply point out that AirTran is In On It, and they are covering up for the Muslim terrorists and their sinister plan to practice a hijacking by talking loudly on their cell phones, watching homemade porn, and generally attracting as much attention to themselves as possible while the plane is still on the tarmac.
What I don't really get is why terrorists would even go the plane route again. It seems like there would be much easier ways to create serious havoc in this country.
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Old 12-08-09, 12:57 PM   #10
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Re: Flight 297 Houston to Atlanta....you read this?

I have to laugh whenever I hear someone describe someone else as "Muslim" based on appearance.
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Old 12-08-09, 12:59 PM   #11
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Re: Flight 297 Houston to Atlanta....you read this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
I have to laugh whenever I hear someone describe someone else as "Muslim" based on appearance.
9/10 times when somebody does this, they're describing a Sikh.

That press release from AirTran is remarkably candid and detailed. Kudos to whoever took the time to put it together.
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Old 12-08-09, 01:29 PM   #12
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Re: Flight 297 Houston to Atlanta....you read this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
I have to laugh whenever I hear someone describe someone else as "Muslim" based on appearance.
Being in Portland, where several white culturally-confused males wear their massive beards and gowns proudly...I would tend to agree with you.
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Old 12-08-09, 01:31 PM   #13
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Re: Flight 297 Houston to Atlanta....you read this?

Quote:
[Quote:
The captain and co-captain came out and told the agent, “we and our crew will not fly this plane!” After a word or two, the entire crew, luggage in tow, left the plane. Five minutes later, the cabin door opened again and a whole new crew walked on.]

The crews were swapped. This is a common occurrence in the aviation industry for any number of reasons. If a Crew Member cannot or will not continue a flight, we must replace that Crew Member.
This sounds like a weak response. Did the entire crew leave the plane or not? They don't just change shifts after boarding the plane, right before starting a flight, do they?
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Old 12-08-09, 01:34 PM   #14
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Re: Flight 297 Houston to Atlanta....you read this?

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Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
I have to laugh whenever I hear someone describe someone else as "Muslim" based on appearance.
I know a Muslim when I see one.
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Old 12-08-09, 01:51 PM   #15
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Re: Flight 297 Houston to Atlanta....you read this?

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This sounds like a weak response. Did the entire crew leave the plane or not? They don't just change shifts after boarding the plane, right before starting a flight, do they?
If there is a delayed flight, particularly toward the end of the day, they often do. There are strict limits on how many consecutive hours a crew can be one, and how much down time they need before they can fly again. I've been on planes a couple of times that were delayed and we wound up getting a whole new flight crew because of this rule.
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Old 12-08-09, 01:54 PM   #16
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Re: Flight 297 Houston to Atlanta....you read this?

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I know a Muslim when I see one.
Barack Obama doesn't count.
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Old 12-08-09, 02:00 PM   #17
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Re: Flight 297 Houston to Atlanta....you read this?

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Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
If there is a delayed flight, particularly toward the end of the day, they often do. There are strict limits on how many consecutive hours a crew can be one, and how much down time they need before they can fly again. I've been on planes a couple of times that were delayed and we wound up getting a whole new flight crew because of this rule.
I thought of that, but how much did this non-incident delay the flight?
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Old 12-08-09, 02:03 PM   #18
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Re: Flight 297 Houston to Atlanta....you read this?

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Barack Obama doesn't count.
He's not only a Muslim - he's a commie.
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Old 12-08-09, 02:04 PM   #19
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Re: Flight 297 Houston to Atlanta....you read this?

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Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
If there is a delayed flight, particularly toward the end of the day, they often do. There are strict limits on how many consecutive hours a crew can be one, and how much down time they need before they can fly again. I've been on planes a couple of times that were delayed and we wound up getting a whole new flight crew because of this rule.
Yep. I've been on planes that have been delayed at the gate and crews (at least the pilots) have been timed-out and swapped out.
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Old 12-08-09, 02:13 PM   #20
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Re: Flight 297 Houston to Atlanta....you read this?

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I thought of that, but how much did this non-incident delay the flight?
Long enough for a party of 11 people to be taken off the plane and re-boarded. Unless, of course, Air Tran is lying and they are In On It.
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Old 12-08-09, 02:21 PM   #21
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Re: Flight 297 Houston to Atlanta....you read this?

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Long enough for a party of 11 people to be taken off the plane and re-boarded. Unless, of course, Air Tran is lying and they are In On It.
I'd just like to know the time since their explanation was so vague. If they're cutting crew time so close, close enough that they could be on the runway and slightly delayed, requiring a crew change, I'd like to know that.
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Old 12-08-09, 02:51 PM   #22
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Re: Flight 297 Houston to Atlanta....you read this?

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I'd just like to know the time since their explanation was so vague. If they're cutting crew time so close, close enough that they could be on the runway and slightly delayed, requiring a crew change, I'd like to know that.
Yeah! Until then, I'm going to believe the anonymous e-mailer. After all, snopes reported it.
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Old 12-08-09, 03:15 PM   #23
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Re: Flight 297 Houston to Atlanta....you read this?

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Yeah! Until then, I'm going to believe the anonymous e-mailer. After all, snopes reported it.
It's funny how someone can't just ask a question about how an airline works without having other people try to dump on them to get some supposed ideological winning points.
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Old 12-08-09, 03:27 PM   #24
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Re: Flight 297 Houston to Atlanta....you read this?

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It's funny how someone can't just ask a question about how an airline works without having other people try to dump on them to get some supposed ideological winning points.
It just seems like you're being a lot harder on the one side that has facts on it side than the one that claims to be able to identify a Muslim by appearance. Then I think JasonF gave you a pretty good follow-up answer, but that wasn't enough. If the airline is being vague and giving "weak responses" in your opinion, what is your opinion of the e-mailer?

Apparently kvrdave had a degree of confidence high enough to post this cockamamie 'story.' What scares me is that if he believed this might be true, I can only shudder to think what carbon blobs reading this might think (and how many of them read it w/o any kind of follow-up).
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Last edited by Red Dog; 12-08-09 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 12-08-09, 03:31 PM   #25
foggy
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Join Date: Apr 2005
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Re: Flight 297 Houston to Atlanta....you read this?

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It's funny how someone can't just ask a question about how an airline works without having other people try to dump on them to get some supposed ideological winning points.
It says in the press release that the flight was delayed more than two hours.
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