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Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

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Old 12-22-10, 08:39 AM   #101
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re: FCC to enact "Net Neutrality" [UPDATE: NOT!]

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyalTea View Post
Don't Telecoms want our money?
I'm unhappy with the fact that Time Warner has decided to charge me extra to use Netflix.

I guess I can switch to Verizon DSL.

Oh wait, they're charging me extra for Netflix too.

I guess I'm screwed.
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Old 12-22-10, 09:29 AM   #102
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re: FCC to enact "Net Neutrality" [UPDATE: NOT!]

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Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet View Post
I'm unhappy with the fact that Time Warner has decided to charge me extra to use Netflix.

I guess I can switch to Verizon DSL.

Oh wait, they're charging me extra for Netflix too.

I guess I'm screwed.
Just start your own telecom company. It's so simple!
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Old 12-22-10, 10:40 AM   #103
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re: FCC to enact "Net Neutrality" [UPDATE: NOT!]

So I don't exactly understand all of this. So net neutrality is now gone and the isp's are already charging more for netflix? Time warner is doing this? If true then I just have to facepalm the government.
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Old 12-22-10, 11:18 AM   #104
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re: FCC to enact "Net Neutrality" [UPDATE: NOT!]

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Originally Posted by glassdragon View Post
So I don't exactly understand all of this. So net neutrality is now gone and the isp's are already charging more for netflix? Time warner is doing this? If true then I just have to facepalm the government.
It hasn't happened yet, but they want to.

Wireless is the test. Watch and see what the wireless providers do now. If they get away with charging extra for different services (Facebook, Netflix, etc.) then eventually the same thing will be coming to wired networks.
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Old 12-22-10, 11:29 AM   #105
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re: FCC to enact "Net Neutrality" [UPDATE: NOT!]

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Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet View Post
It hasn't happened yet, but they want to.

Wireless is the test. Watch and see what the wireless providers do now. If they get away with charging extra for different services (Facebook, Netflix, etc.) then eventually the same thing will be coming to wired networks.
I haven't been following the net neutrality situation too closely, but as I understand it, the FCC basically let the wireless providers have their way but clamped down on the wired providers. Looked at through a cynical, realpolitik lens, it's brilliant, because it puts the two in opposite camps, thereby blunting efforts to fight the rules.

Of course, you may be right that the sop to wireless carriers is the nose in the camel's tent and we'll see wired providers get the same deference down the road. On the other hand, things could move in the opposite direction, too.
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Old 12-22-10, 11:40 AM   #106
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re: FCC to enact "Net Neutrality" [UPDATE: NOT!]

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Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
I haven't been following the net neutrality situation too closely, but as I understand it, the FCC basically let the wireless providers have their way but clamped down on the wired providers. Looked at through a cynical, realpolitik lens, it's brilliant, because it puts the two in opposite camps, thereby blunting efforts to fight the rules.

Of course, you may be right that the sop to wireless carriers is the nose in the camel's tent and we'll see wired providers get the same deference down the road. On the other hand, things could move in the opposite direction, too.
Unfortunately, what the FCC passed for wired networks isn't really net neutrality. It still leaves open the possibility of "fast lanes" (ISPs charging companies to serve their data faster than the competition). In addition, the language it used isn't very precise, such as "unreasonable discrimination"- what does that mean?
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Old 12-22-10, 11:45 AM   #107
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re: FCC to enact "Net Neutrality" [UPDATE: NOT!]

I hope the Republicans follow through on this.. From DeMint:

“The Obama Administration has ignored evidence that this federal takeover will hang a millstone of regulatory and legal uncertainty around the neck of a vibrant sector of our economy.

"Proceeding on its own liberal whims rather than facts, this FCC has chosen to grant itself broad authority to limit how businesses can bring the internet to consumers in faster and more innovative ways.

“Americans loudly demanded a more limited federal government this November, but the Obama Administration has dedicated itself to expanding centralized government planning. Today, unelected bureaucrats rammed through an internet takeover, even after Congress and courts warned them not to.

“To keep the internet economy thriving, this decision must be reversed. Regulatory reform will be a top priority for Republicans in the next Congress, and I intend to prevent the FCC or any government agency from unilaterally burdening our recovering economy with baseless regulation.

"In order to provide the stability businesses need to grow, I will work with my fellow senators to see passage of my FCC Act, which would ensure that the FCC can only use its rulemaking powers where there is clear evidence of a harmful market failure, as well as the REINS Act, which would add the accountability of a Congressional vote before any government agency’s proposed major regulations may be finalized.”
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Old 12-22-10, 11:48 AM   #108
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re: FCC to enact "Net Neutrality" [UPDATE: NOT!]

^

I'd like to ask those fucking idiots how they think another Google or Facebook will ever happen when ISPs have free reign to charge internet companies to deliver their data. Startups will disappear.

Make no mistake: this is monetization of every side of the internet with the sole goal of enriching the ISPs. They don't care about the health of the internet.
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Old 12-22-10, 11:53 AM   #109
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re: FCC to enact "Net Neutrality" [UPDATE: NOT!]

Get ready for this.

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Old 12-22-10, 12:03 PM   #110
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re: FCC to enact "Net Neutrality" [UPDATE: NOT!]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet View Post
^

I'd like to ask those fucking idiots how they think another Google or Facebook will ever happen when ISPs have free reign to charge internet companies to deliver their data. Startups will disappear.

Make no mistake: this is monetization of every side of the internet with the sole goal of enriching the ISPs. They don't care about the health of the internet.
I remember 20+ years ago or whenever it was that they were going to start regulating the cable companies and I heard without government interference the dastardly cable companies would be able to crank up their rates to whatever they wanted to! However there was a plethora of competition around to keep the rates low. Once the regulation passed all the competition was removed because our cable company now "owned" the area and they doubled their prices - because it was either them or nobody. That worked just great. Glad the gov't stepped in there save us all. Then, like now, the FCC gave itself power to stop a crisis that just plain doesn't exist. The end result is higher government and the citizens get screwed over. Things have been humming along with the internet pretty well for a while now. I keep getting faster data plans for cheaper prices. What's broken exactly that we need big brother to save us?
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Old 12-22-10, 12:17 PM   #111
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re: FCC to enact "Net Neutrality" [UPDATE: NOT!]

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Originally Posted by General Zod View Post
I remember 20+ years ago or whenever it was that they were going to start regulating the cable companies and I heard without government interference the dastardly cable companies would be able to crank up their rates to whatever they wanted to! However there was a plethora of competition around to keep the rates low. Once the regulation passed all the competition was removed because our cable company now "owned" the area and they doubled their prices - because it was either them or nobody. That worked just great. Glad the gov't stepped in there save us all. Then, like now, the FCC gave itself power to stop a crisis that just plain doesn't exist. The end result is higher government and the citizens get screwed over. Things have been humming along with the internet pretty well for a while now. I keep getting faster data plans for cheaper prices. What's broken exactly that we need big brother to save us?
Nothing is broken right now. That's the fucking point. The telcos want to break it, and the goverment should stop them.

The consumer side of this issue, while important, is a red herring. The real action is surrounding the backbone, where the telcos want to start charging internet companies for priority access to the backbone. And when that happens, kiss the internet goodbye. You will never see another Google, or Facebook, or Netflix, or Amazon, and the economy will suffer because of it.
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Old 12-22-10, 12:19 PM   #112
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re: FCC to enact "Net Neutrality" [UPDATE: NOT!]

its all an effort to make sure the fat cats get fatter. Meow.
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Old 12-22-10, 12:24 PM   #113
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re: FCC to enact "Net Neutrality" [UPDATE: NOT!]

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Zod View Post
I remember 20+ years ago or whenever it was that they were going to start regulating the cable companies and I heard without government interference the dastardly cable companies would be able to crank up their rates to whatever they wanted to! However there was a plethora of competition around to keep the rates low. Once the regulation passed all the competition was removed because our cable company now "owned" the area and they doubled their prices - because it was either them or nobody. That worked just great. Glad the gov't stepped in there save us all. Then, like now, the FCC gave itself power to stop a crisis that just plain doesn't exist. The end result is higher government and the citizens get screwed over. Things have been humming along with the internet pretty well for a while now. I keep getting faster data plans for cheaper prices. What's broken exactly that we need big brother to save us?
I don't know if this will be a problem in the future, but most people have fewer choices of ISPs than they have affordable private health insurance.
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Old 12-22-10, 12:52 PM   #114
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re: FCC to enact "Net Neutrality" [UPDATE: NOT!]

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Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet View Post
I'm unhappy with the fact that Time Warner has decided to charge me extra to use Netflix.

I guess I can switch to Verizon DSL.

Oh wait, they're charging me extra for Netflix too.

I guess I'm screwed.


You must be the only one paying more for Netflix streaming
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Old 12-22-10, 12:53 PM   #115
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re: FCC to enact "Net Neutrality" [UPDATE: NOT!]

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Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post
You must be the only one paying more for Netflix streaming
You must be the only one who doesn't know what a hypothetical is
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Old 12-22-10, 12:54 PM   #116
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re: FCC to enact "Net Neutrality" [UPDATE: NOT!]

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I don't know if this will be a problem in the future, but most people have fewer choices of ISPs than they have affordable private health insurance.

You must live out in the boonies
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Old 12-22-10, 01:08 PM   #117
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re: FCC to enact "Net Neutrality" [UPDATE: NOT!]

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You must be the only one who doesn't know what a hypothetical is


Even if twc wanted to charge more for Netflix, they have to vet puc approval. And there is competition
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Old 12-22-10, 01:18 PM   #118
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re: FCC to enact "Net Neutrality" [UPDATE: NOT!]

Here's a proposal: How about a little de-regulation? And to start with we'll get rid of the FCC. Fucking unbelievable. Everything they do is against the consumer. They are working against the public's wishes and best interest. They regulate OUR airwaves and infastructure, but what's best for us is NEVER taken into account.

If they are just going to suckle the cock of business interests why not just let the business interests run the whole thing and at least we'll save the cost of running the FCC and paying all these politicians.

Get rid of the FCC and let AT&T run it.

The way it's going right now AT&T wants to fuck us (the consumer), but we pay for the FCC to get between AT&T and us, but the FCC just does whatever AT&T wants. Let's just get rid of the FCC and let AT&T fuck us directly. Because right now we're being double fucked. AT&T fucks us and the FCC takes our tax dollars and does nothing.
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Old 12-22-10, 01:21 PM   #119
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re: FCC to enact "Net Neutrality" [UPDATE: NOT!]

Yea! Democrats for freedom! Pro-choice!!!

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Old 12-22-10, 01:40 PM   #120
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re: FCC to enact "Net Neutrality" [UPDATE: NOT!]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet View Post
You will never see another Google, or Facebook, or Netflix, or Amazon, and the economy will suffer because of it.
The Internet isn't the exciting, wild frontier it was in the mid 1990's. It's an established business model with entrenched interests. You'll never see another Amazon any more than you'll see a serious start up that competes with Wal-Mart.

This is what you're getting, so bend over and get ready to pay for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyalTea
Don't Telecoms want our money?
You make it sound so innocuous, as if they're going to work harder and harder just to be blessed with our business, realizing all along that they exist solely at the pleasure of the customer. In reality, they know people will grumble and continue to pay no matter how draconian the fee, so they rape accordingly. Their business model is to see how much of your money they can steal.
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Old 12-22-10, 01:50 PM   #121
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re: FCC to enact "Net Neutrality" [UPDATE: NOT!]

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The Internet isn't the exciting, wild frontier it was in the mid 1990's. It's an established business model with entrenched interests. You'll never see another Amazon any more than you'll see a serious start up that competes with Wal-Mart.
Facebook broke big in 2007 and took down My Space, etc. Was that the old west days?
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Old 12-22-10, 01:55 PM   #122
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re: FCC to enact "Net Neutrality" [UPDATE: NOT!]

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Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
Facebook broke big in 2007 and took down My Space, etc. Was that the old west days?
Thank you. What nonsense.
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Old 12-22-10, 01:57 PM   #123
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re: FCC to enact "Net Neutrality" [UPDATE: NOT!]

Sonny, you may not believe it, but I remember a time before there was such a thing as Four Square.
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Old 12-22-10, 02:20 PM   #124
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re: FCC to enact "Net Neutrality" [UPDATE: NOT!]

http://www.engadget.com/2010/12/21/f...ations-on-wir/

Quote:
FCC: We didn't impose stricter net neutrality regulations on wireless because Android is open
By Nilay Patel posted Dec 21st 2010 5:53PM

Rest assured that we're working on a full analysis of the FCC's major net neutrality decision today, but the Commission hasn't actually released the full text of the order yet, and we just came across something in the press release we wanted to break out: one of the specific reasons the FCC gives for regulating wireless broadband more lightly than wireline is the release of Android. Seriously -- the release says that only "measured steps" to regulating wireless are necessary because "open operating systems like Android" have been released, and that it wants to see how Verizon and other 700MHz spectrum winners handle the hotly-contested openness requirement when building out 4G. Here's the full quote:

Further, we recognize that there have been meaningful recent moves toward openness, including the introduction of open operating systems like Android. In addition, we anticipate soon seeing the effects on the market of the openness conditions we imposed on mobile providers that operate on upper 700 MHz C-Block spectrum, which includes Verizon Wireless, one of the largest mobile wireless carriers in the U.S.

In light of these considerations, we conclude it is appropriate to take measured steps at this time to protect the openness of the Internet when accessed through mobile broadband.


Now, we obviously love Android, and there's no doubt that Google's OS has been part of some wonderfully furious competition in the mobile space recently. But we're not sure any of that has anything to do with net neutrality -- it doesn't matter how open your OS is when you're stuck with a filtered and throttled connection, and it's a pretty huge stretch to think Android's openness (however you want to define it) has anything to do with network access itself. And let's not forget that the primary proponent of the 700MHz open-access rules was Google, which promptly flip-flopped on the issue when it became Verizon's policy BFF after the Droid launch -- if we were slightly more paranoid, we'd be pretty sure there's a link between the FCC's Android mention and the combined furious lobbying of Google and Verizon. Nice try, boys -- but how about you make with the actual rules now?
This doesn't even make sense. Because Android is open source, we won't place restrictions on mobile carriers? Isn't that kind of like saying, "Because two story houses look nice, we won't put any regulations on how they can be built"?
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Old 12-22-10, 02:33 PM   #125
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re: FCC to enact "Net Neutrality" [UPDATE: NOT!]

Another agency that thinks they can positively influence the course of technology and markets.
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