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Old 02-11-09, 06:03 PM   #1
kvrdave
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Man arrested for having gun with permit.

MONMOUTH, Ore. - A Western Oregon University student has been suspended after a confrontation with campus security last month over a concealed firearm and knife he brought on campus.

A university student disciplinary panel determined Tuesday that 30-year-old Jeffrey L. Maxwell should be suspended until the end of the spring term despite the fact that he has a concealed handgun license.

Maxwell won't be allowed to re-enroll until a licensed mental health professional notifies the university that he is not a threat to himself or others, the panel concluded. The student must also write a 10-page paper that addresses the impact the possession of weapons on college campuses has on others as well as the importance of following the law.

Neither Maxwell, a Marine Corps veteran, nor his lawyer could be immediately reached for comment. However, the Oregon Firearms Federation, which paid for Maxwell's attorney, said the panel's decision will be appealed.

"He's being treated like a criminal when in fact the people who arrested him are breaking the law," said Kevin Starrett, a spokesman for the group. READ THE GROUP'S PRESS RELEASE

The case has drawn the ire of some state legislators, who recently wrote a letter to the university system complaining that legal gun owners' rights are being infringed upon by policies that prevent people with concealed handgun licenses from taking their firearms on public campuses.

Student confronted

The confrontation occurred Jan. 28 when someone called campus security after seeing a knife sticking out of Maxwell's pocket while the Lebanon man was inside the Werner University Center, his lawyer, James Leuenberger of Lake Oswego, has said.

When security officers confronted Maxwell and asked if he had any other weapons in his pockets, Maxwell told them he had a couple of other pocket knifes as well as a small handgun on him, Leuenberger has said. The handgun was a Derringer, his lawyer said. Maxwell also told them about a rifle he had in his truck parked in a lot on campus.

Maxwell, who obtained his concealed handgun license from Linn County in 2006, was criminally cited by Monmouth police for possession of a firearm in a public building.


On Tuesday, Maxwell's lawyer received an e-mail from Polk County District Attorney Stan Butterfield saying prosecutors would not pursue the criminal charge against Maxwell.

"I believe the Monmouth Police Department issued the citation in good faith and that there was an arguable violation," Butterfield wrote in the e-mail, which was obtained by KATU.com. "However, a careful reading of the statute and the facts led me to conclude the charge was not in the best interest of justice."


University policy clear

The student discipline case moved forward, however. At WOU, people are prohibited from carrying guns on campus even if they are licensed to carry a concealed weapon. The university's president has the "authority to control, manage and regulate behavior on campus," according to the policy. READ THE FULL POLICY

A spokeswoman for the university said Wednesday that the policy is the same at all of Oregon's public universities.

She declined to discuss Maxwell's suspension, saying she could not comment on conduct hearings.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

I heard the lawyer speak about this on the radio. Apparently there was a hearing for the student by the University, and his lawyer was present. The committee would not allow the meeting to be open to the public because of the privacy of the student. Their policy allows for it to be private unless the person agrees to allow it to be public, which he did. They would not allow it to be public. They deliberated for 3 hours and turned off all recording devices for the deliberation, which apparently goes against their procedure. Anyway, that was when they suspended him and told him to get back into school he had to have a psych evaluation, and write a 10 page paer on why it is good to follow the law.

I hope they get their asses sued off for several reasons. First, it is a hippy Oregon school that deserves it. But also, a university policy cannot trumb state law and the constitution of the United States. How freaking retarded.

I think the DA dropped the charges because it was obvious that there was no law broken. He seems to be trying to cover his ass and that of the police, but still, no law was broken.

It is just hard to imagine that you take the time to get a concealed weapons permit, don't do anything illegal, and then you get busted for it. Seems obvious that once the DA, etc. saw that lawyers were being paid for, they dropped this quick. Now hopefully the university takes it up the pooper.
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Old 02-11-09, 06:36 PM   #2
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Re: Man arrested for having gun with permit.

A 30 y/o student, an ex marine, carries a gun, a knife and a "couple of other pocket knives" to school, and he has a rifle in his truck which is presumably parked on campus? He seems perfectly well adjusted and doesn't need a psych evaluation whatsoever.

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But also, a university policy cannot trump state law and the constitution of the United States. How freaking retarded.
I totally disagree but then I'm just a lowly Canadian.
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Old 02-11-09, 07:00 PM   #3
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Re: Man arrested for having gun with permit.

Some states have laws against carrying guns to school - whether you have a permit or not.
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Old 02-11-09, 07:07 PM   #4
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Re: Man arrested for having gun with permit.

There are other places you cannot carry a gun as well, permit or not.

The paper seems stupid. I think think the campus policy is stupid as well, but I'm not sure they should not be allowed to have such a policy.

As for eXcentris... y'all Canadians just don't understand. You need to come hang with some real men who know what it means to own guns responsibly and kill some food, protect your women and children, and live at peace with everyone who is smart enough to stay away from your wife, beer, and front yard.
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Old 02-11-09, 07:10 PM   #5
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Re: Man arrested for having gun with permit.

I guess this guy thinks he can go to court with a concealed weapon. you know, since he has a permit and all.
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Old 02-11-09, 07:29 PM   #6
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Re: Man arrested for having gun with permit.

Many states prohibit you carrying a concealed weapon into bars whether you have a permit or not.
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Old 02-11-09, 08:20 PM   #7
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Re: Man arrested for having gun with permit.

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I guess this guy thinks he can go to court with a concealed weapon. you know, since he has a permit and all.
That would be a good point if there were an actual law against having a concealed weapon with a permit on the campus. There isn't. A policy against blacks wouldn't be okay either.

The 2nd amendment. It's still in the constitution.

Most states have laws about guns in primary schools but Oregon doesn't for secondary education. So why should this guy be kicked out?

If they want to change the law, great. But they have the laws on the books currently, and they seem to jibe with the constitution.
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Old 02-11-09, 08:21 PM   #8
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Re: Man arrested for having gun with permit.

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Originally Posted by classicman2 View Post
Some states have laws against carrying guns to school - whether you have a permit or not.
Oregon is not one of them. One of the clues is that the DA dropped the charges because no law was broken. He didn't say that was why they dropped the charges, but it is.
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Old 02-11-09, 08:24 PM   #9
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Re: Man arrested for having gun with permit.

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Originally Posted by eXcentris View Post
A 30 y/o student, an ex marine, carries a gun, a knife and a "couple of other pocket knives" to school, and he has a rifle in his truck which is presumably parked on campus? He seems perfectly well adjusted and doesn't need a psych evaluation whatsoever.

Hell, the guy is better trained, had background checks to get a permit, etc. No arrests, no nothing. A few of these guys at Virginia Tech would have been nice.
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Old 02-11-09, 09:25 PM   #10
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Re: Man arrested for having gun with permit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eXcentris View Post
A 30 y/o student, an ex marine, carries a gun, a knife and a "couple of other pocket knives" to school, and he has a rifle in his truck which is presumably parked on campus? He seems perfectly well adjusted and doesn't need a psych evaluation whatsoever.
This is Monmouth, OR. Not some place in the middle of downtown Manhattan.

I guess we might as well suspend the guy from school for driving a truck as well. Maybe someday in Eugene, OR, it will happen.

And I'm with kvrdave. If we had a few of these people on campus, it couldn't hurt a situation where a Rambo Retard--who is CURRENTLY UNDERGOING PSYCH TREATMENT--is running around with an assortment of weapons, taking shots at anyone because they simply breath.

I'm not sure how deadly a hockey puck can be when thrown at the head, but I'd prefer a .40 cal hollow-point to the head and chest.
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Old 02-11-09, 10:02 PM   #11
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Re: Man arrested for having gun with permit.

The guy should have known using a pocket clip and leaving the knife visible would scare the hell out of some pansy.

People are so weak minded and socially conditioned the mere sight of a pocket knife freaks them out these days. It's pathetic to see people reduced to such a weak and mindless state, but that's the reality of the majority these days.

The banning of firearms will continue. Though the actions taken against him violate the Constitution and the law, the guy is still paying the consequences.
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Old 02-11-09, 10:10 PM   #12
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Re: Man arrested for having gun with permit.

Eh, part of me is split on this one.

I'm unfamiliar with Oregon law on the subject. If Oregon law states that a CCW holder can carry a weapon anywhere except certain places, and if college campuses aren't one of the exceptions, then I'd take the student's side on this.

Except... one of the important things about carrying concealed weapons is actually keeping them concealed. I carry with me every day, everywhere (unless it's a forbidden location). Nobody ever knows I'm carrying except my wife. If you're flashing your weapons, even accidentally, you're doing something very wrong.

I'm not surprised about government entities showing disregard for gun rights, though. There was a federal law passed a few years back that allows any current law enforcement officer to carry concealed anywhere in the country, completely exempting us from local gun control laws. As you might guess, certain gun grabbing states and cities hate the law. There have been at least three incidents I know of where police (NYC police in at least two of the cases, and I'm thinking the third was NYC police as well) arrested another jurisdiction's law enforcement officer for carrying concealed in NYC, despite federal law being clearly controlling in that situation.
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Old 02-11-09, 10:13 PM   #13
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Re: Man arrested for having gun with permit.

Since kvr forgot to post it.

Here's the link.

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Old 02-11-09, 10:29 PM   #14
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Re: Man arrested for having gun with permit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eXcentris View Post
A 30 y/o student, an ex marine, carries a gun, a knife and a "couple of other pocket knives" to school, and he has a rifle in his truck which is presumably parked on campus? He seems perfectly well adjusted and doesn't need a psych evaluation whatsoever.



I totally disagree but then I'm just a lowly Canadian.
He legally obtained a permit and from everything posted didn't do anything to suggest he has any psychological issues. Since the University does not forbid firearms on campus, I don't see an issue.

This is the kind of guy I WANT to have a gun on campus....in case some nutjob decides to shoot up another school.
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Old 02-11-09, 10:35 PM   #15
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Re: Man arrested for having gun with permit.

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Eh, part of me is split on this one.

I'm unfamiliar with Oregon law on the subject. If Oregon law states that a CCW holder can carry a weapon anywhere except certain places, and if college campuses aren't one of the exceptions, then I'd take the student's side on this.

Except... one of the important things about carrying concealed weapons is actually keeping them concealed. I carry with me every day, everywhere (unless it's a forbidden location). Nobody ever knows I'm carrying except my wife. If you're flashing your weapons, even accidentally, you're doing something very wrong.

I'm not surprised about government entities showing disregard for gun rights, though. There was a federal law passed a few years back that allows any current law enforcement officer to carry concealed anywhere in the country, completely exempting us from local gun control laws. As you might guess, certain gun grabbing states and cities hate the law. There have been at least three incidents I know of where police (NYC police in at least two of the cases, and I'm thinking the third was NYC police as well) arrested another jurisdiction's law enforcement officer for carrying concealed in NYC, despite federal law being clearly controlling in that situation.
Just an FYI, the guy's knife was peeping its little head out of his pocket. This was the only thing that lead to the confrontation with security.

It was only later he was honest in telling security he had other weapons on him, that his handgun permit was known.

Security was a little stupid. The hidden weapons were not the problem. The only problem was the little knife that somebody got scared of. If the guy didn't tell security about his handgun, then that's one thing. But he was honest and upfront.
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Old 02-11-09, 10:38 PM   #16
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Re: Man arrested for having gun with permit.

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Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
Just an FYI, the guy's knife was peeping its little head out of his pocket. This was the only thing that lead to the confrontation with security.

It was only later he was honest in telling security he had other weapons on him, that his handgun permit was known.

Security was a little stupid. The hidden weapons were not the problem. The only problem was the little knife that somebody got scared of. If the guy didn't tell security about his handgun, then that's one thing. But he was honest and upfront.
Which is yet another reason why he should be commended for being a responsible citizen. He shouldn't have to worry about over-zealous and ill-informed people trying to hassle him.
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Old 02-11-09, 10:56 PM   #17
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Re: Man arrested for having gun with permit.

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Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
And I'm with kvrdave. If we had a few of these people on campus, it couldn't hurt a situation where a Rambo Retard--who is CURRENTLY UNDERGOING PSYCH TREATMENT--is running around with an assortment of weapons, taking shots at anyone because they simply breath.
Really? So without knowing that guy, without knowing if he has a record or not, without having seen any psych report, you've concluded that he's a responsible, weapons carrying citizen, and not a Rambo retard? Fascinating.

Maybe the guy is indeed a fine upstanding citizen and the school went overboard but if a 30 y/o ex marine (we all know ex soldiers have no problem whatsoever re-integrating into society right?) was walking around on campus with a concealed weapon, a knife, and oops... well... more knives and a rifle in his truck, woudn't you want to at least check the guy out to make sure he's not a threat to anyone?

Last edited by eXcentris; 02-11-09 at 11:05 PM.
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Old 02-11-09, 10:59 PM   #18
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Re: Man arrested for having gun with permit.

Again, I'm not sure how it works in Oregon, but in many states, if you have a CCW and get approached by law enforcement, you HAVE to tell them. It's part of the CCW requirement in many (but not all) states.

If it was just a little folding pocket knife, then I'd agree it was stupid and overzealous of the other students to call campus police. Maybe I misread the story, but I didn't think it was spelled out what type of knife the student saw. I know the story says he had additional pocket knives on him, but from the posted story, the spotted knife could have been a buck knife.
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Old 02-11-09, 11:01 PM   #19
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Re: Man arrested for having gun with permit.

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Originally Posted by eXcentris View Post
Really? So without knowing that guy or having seen any psych report you've concluded that he's on the good armed vigilante side and not on the Rambo retard side. Fascinating.

Maybe the guy is a fine upstanding citizen and the school went overboard but if a 30 y/o ex marine (we all know soldiers have no problem whatsoever re-integrating into society right?) was walking around on campus with a concealed weapon, a knife, and oops... well... more knives and a rifle in his truck, woudn't you want to at least check the guy out to make sure he's not a threat to anyone?

I know this is the US and all but geez...
I have no problem with "checking the guy out." That should have gone as far as speaking to him, seeing he had a valid license, and saying "have a good day," unless the state law is clearly contrary.

That's a far cry from what happened.
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Old 02-11-09, 11:04 PM   #20
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Re: Man arrested for having gun with permit.

What about the case where some old lady from PA was arrested at Disney for bringing in a loaded gun and a knife? She claimed she forgot she had them. I doubt she had a CCW permit. The difference here is that Disney is private property?
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Old 02-11-09, 11:14 PM   #21
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Re: Man arrested for having gun with permit.

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Originally Posted by pedagogue View Post
He legally obtained a permit and from everything posted didn't do anything to suggest he has any psychological issues. Since the University does not forbid firearms on campus, I don't see an issue.
" At WOU, people are prohibited from carrying guns on campus even if they are licensed to carry a concealed weapon. The university's president has the "authority to control, manage and regulate behavior on campus," according to the policy."

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Old 02-12-09, 12:02 AM   #22
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Re: Man arrested for having gun with permit.

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Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
That would be a good point if there were an actual law against having a concealed weapon with a permit on the campus. There isn't. A policy against blacks wouldn't be okay either.

The 2nd amendment. It's still in the constitution.

Most states have laws about guns in primary schools but Oregon doesn't for secondary education. So why should this guy be kicked out?

If they want to change the law, great. But they have the laws on the books currently, and they seem to jibe with the constitution.
http://www.wou.edu/policy/61
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Old 02-12-09, 12:20 AM   #23
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Re: Man arrested for having gun with permit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brack View Post
http://landru.leg.state.or.us/ors/166.html

Quote:

166.170 State preemption. (1) Except as expressly authorized by state statute, the authority to regulate in any matter whatsoever the sale, acquisition, transfer, ownership, possession, storage, transportation or use of firearms or any element relating to firearms and components thereof, including ammunition, is vested solely in the Legislative Assembly.

(2) Except as expressly authorized by state statute, no county, city or other municipal corporation or district may enact civil or criminal ordinances, including but not limited to zoning ordinances, to regulate, restrict or prohibit the sale, acquisition, transfer, ownership, possession, storage, transportation or use of firearms or any element relating to firearms and components thereof, including ammunition. Ordinances that are contrary to this subsection are void. [1995 s.s. c.1 ß1]


...

166.173 Authority of city or county to regulate possession of loaded firearms in public places. (1) A city or county may adopt ordinances to regulate, restrict or prohibit the possession of loaded firearms in public places as defined in ORS 161.015.

(2) Ordinances adopted under subsection (1) of this section do not apply to or affect:

(a) A law enforcement officer in the performance of official duty.

(b) A member of the military in the performance of official duty.

(c) A person licensed to carry a concealed handgun.

(d) A person authorized to possess a loaded firearm while in or on a public building or court facility under ORS 166.370. [1995 s.s. c.1 ß4; 1999 c.782 ß8]
So 1) the state legislature has the sole authority to regulate guns unless a contrary statute specifically delegates that authority, and 2) while a statute exists granting counties and cities the authority to restrict gun possession in public, even that statute can't be enforced against somebody with a license.

An Oregon statute may be floating around somewhere that specifically grants schools the authority to regulate guns, but I didn't find it. Absent it, it would seem the school had no authority to proscribe legal gun possession.
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Old 02-12-09, 12:21 AM   #24
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Re: Man arrested for having gun with permit.

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Originally Posted by Brack View Post

A university's policy cannot trump state law nor can it trump the US constitution. I know that most campuses feel like some different hippy country where bong hits are required and mean thoughts are punished, but it would be the same if they had any other policy that was contrary to state law. If their policy was that you could drink when you were 18, it would be contrary to state law, and would not legal.

Please tell me that you understand that point.
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Old 02-12-09, 12:28 AM   #25
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Re: Man arrested for having gun with permit.

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Originally Posted by eXcentris View Post
Really? So without knowing that guy, without knowing if he has a record or not, without having seen any psych report, you've concluded that he's a responsible, weapons carrying citizen, and not a Rambo retard? Fascinating.
He has no record. He served honorably in the Marines. He was issued a state concealed weapons permit. Somehow you have decided he should be psych evaluated when he has done everything the law requires to do what he did. Is that how they operate in Canada? Even if you do everything the government has required, you still assume the person is right on the edge of destroying society?

Quote:
Maybe the guy is indeed a fine upstanding citizen and the school went overboard but if a 30 y/o ex marine (we all know ex soldiers have no problem whatsoever re-integrating into society right?) was walking around on campus with a concealed weapon, a knife, and oops... well... more knives and a rifle in his truck, woudn't you want to at least check the guy out to make sure he's not a threat to anyone?
Sure, and they did check him out and he checked out fine, and then they arrested him and then they charged him. All that despite no record and the fact that he volunteered that he had the gun on him, which he is required to do.

And I understand that many city folk probably think that all colleges are located in big cities. The entire city has a population under 10,000. This is in the thick of redneck logging country (which many would also say should be illegal).
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