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Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

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Old 07-23-08, 01:40 AM   #1
wabio
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Hugo Chavez seeks alliance, arms with Russia.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080722/.../russia_chavez

Quote:
Venezuela's Chavez calls for alliance with Russia By MANSUR MIROVALEV, Associated Press Writer
Tue Jul 22, 12:35 PM ET



BARVIKHA, Russia - Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, visiting Moscow to pursue weapons and energy deals, on Tuesday called for a strategic alliance with Russia to protect his country from the United States.

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Chavez has repeatedly accused Washington of plotting an invasion to destabilize his government, despite U.S. denials.

The alliance would mean "we can guarantee Venezuela's sovereignty, which is now threatened by the United States," Chavez told reporters shortly after his arrival in Moscow.

Chavez is in Russia to broker a number of deals involving weapons purchases, oil exploration and possibly the creation of a joint financial institution.

Welcoming Chavez at Meiendorf Castle, his residence outside Moscow, President Dmitry Medvedev said Russian-Venezuelan relations "are one of the key factors of security in the (South American) region."

It is the presidents' first meeting since Medvedev took office in May.

Venezuela's state-run oil company Petroleos de Venezuela SA signed separate deals with three Russian energy companies Gazprom, Lukoil and TNK-BP during the first day of Chavez's visit.

In addition, Russian media have reported that Chavez is expected to reach a number of agreements for purchasing Russian military hardware while in Moscow, with one paper reporting the deals could be worth up to $2 billion.

The newspaper Kommersant, generally regarded as reliable, reported Tuesday that Chavez is looking to order Ilyushin jets, diesel-powered submarines, Tor-M1 air defense systems and possibly tanks. It did not specify its sources.

"We want peace, but we are forced to strengthen our defense," Chavez said when asked about the potential deals upon his arrival.

Rosoboronexport, Russia's state-owned arms trader, declined to comment on potential deals.

Venezuela, which spent $4 billion on international arms purchases between 2005 and 2007, mostly from Russia and China, has a defense budget of $2.6 billion, according to the London-based International Institute for Strategic Studies.

The U.S. stopped supplying arms to Venezuela in 2006.

The three energy agreements involve exploring new oil fields in Venezuela. Chavez said they signified the "creation of a new strategic energy alliance" between Russia and Venezuela.

The deal with TNK-BP was particularly striking given the company's ongoing dispute between its Russian and British shareholders.

"For TNK-BP it is a positive sign that the shareholders' conflict has had no effect on the business," said Valery Nesterov, an analyst at Troika Dialog, an investment bank.

On Tuesday BP announced it would recall 60 technical specialists from Russia.

Chavez also wants to discuss the possibility of creating a joint bank, according to Alexis Navarro, Venezuela's ambassador to Moscow.

The Venezuelan president also met Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and was to meet Russian military and business leaders.

Commercial trade between Venezuela and Russia reached $1.1 billion last year, almost double the $517 million in trade during 2006, according to statistics cited by Venezuela's state-run news agency.

This guy is a serious nutjob. First he seizes all the international oil infrastructure, and now this. I wish we had the resources to go after him.
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Old 07-23-08, 05:56 AM   #2
Tuan Jim
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Ehhhh. He's really not that much of a threat at the moment. Diminished support at home and elsewhere in S. America. Now that he can't meddle in Colombia he's trying to find other ways to stay "relevant".

and $2 billion doesn't buy you that much gear either.
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Old 07-23-08, 08:42 AM   #3
classicman2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuan Jim
Ehhhh. He's really not that much of a threat at the moment. Diminished support at home and elsewhere in S. America. Now that he can't meddle in Colombia he's trying to find other ways to stay "relevant".

and $2 billion doesn't buy you that much gear either.
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Old 07-23-08, 09:53 AM   #4
CRM114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuan Jim
Ehhhh. He's really not that much of a threat at the moment. Diminished support at home and elsewhere in S. America. Now that he can't meddle in Colombia he's trying to find other ways to stay "relevant".

and $2 billion doesn't buy you that much gear either.
Considering Venezuela is the 4th largest exporter of oil to the United States, I'd say they are very relevant. The US should be strengthening relations with Venezuela, not straining them to the point where Chavez runs off to Russia. I'd rather be allied with them than the Saudi, the bastards that played a part in 911.

Oh I forgot, he's a Socialist. Boooga boooga!!!
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Old 07-23-08, 10:05 AM   #5
Ranger
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He needs to have his people think that the U.S. is their enemy.

He supports FARC. I think it was only recently that he and Castro started to tell FARC to let their hostages go.

I think he did pay Uribe a recent visit and gave him a painting of Simon Bolivar.
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Old 07-23-08, 12:50 PM   #6
classicman2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRM114
Considering Venezuela is the 4th largest exporter of oil to the United States, I'd say they are very relevant. The US should be strengthening relations with Venezuela, not straining them to the point where Chavez runs off to Russia. I'd rather be allied with them than the Saudi, the bastards that played a part in 911.

Oh I forgot, he's a Socialist. Boooga boooga!!!
I'd rather be dedicated to a comprehensive energy policy where we wouldn't have to deal with either.

Oh, I forgot. You're opposed to a comprehensive energy policy.
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Old 07-23-08, 02:07 PM   #7
CRM114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classicman2
I'd rather be dedicated to a comprehensive energy policy where we wouldn't have to deal with either.

Oh, I forgot. You're opposed to a comprehensive energy policy.
If by "comprehensive energy policy" you mean an orgy of oil drilling by multinational corporations all over and off the coast of the country, then yes, I am opposed.

If by "comprehensive energy policy" you mean a laser focus on things like CAFE standards, nuclear power and other forms of non-fossil fuel energy production, I am not opposed.

And I am no environmentalist. I am opposed to corporate welfare however.
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Old 07-23-08, 02:23 PM   #8
DeltaSigChi4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wabio

I wish we had the resources to go after him.
I wish people like you weren't citizens of my country.

E
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Old 07-23-08, 02:27 PM   #9
dick_grayson
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I saw something on the news that gas is something like $0.78/gallon in Venezuela. Not that that has anything to do with this, I just thought it was worth mentioning.
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Old 07-23-08, 02:27 PM   #10
wabio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaSigChi4
I wish people like you weren't citizens of my country.

E

What's that supposed to mean? Go threadcrap somewhere else.
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Old 07-23-08, 02:31 PM   #11
DeltaSigChi4
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It means Chavez isn't a threat to this nation, or to any other nation on this planet, while chickenhawks like yourself are the true threats, to world peace, and the very health of the United States Constitution.

Go find citizenship elsewhere and support perpetual world war in another region with other people.

E
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Old 07-23-08, 02:33 PM   #12
classicman2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRM114
If by "comprehensive energy policy" you mean an orgy of oil drilling by multinational corporations all over and off the coast of the country, then yes, I am opposed.

If by "comprehensive energy policy" you mean a laser focus on things like CAFE standards, nuclear power and other forms of non-fossil fuel energy production, I am not opposed.

And I am no environmentalist. I am opposed to corporate welfare however.
1. Substitute realistic for comprehensive.

2. You do believe that fossil fuels are overwhelmingly our primary source of energy, and will be for the foreseeable future, do you not?

3. Unless you address that realty with any energy bill, you might as well be whistling Dixie, because that plan simply doesn't stand the realistic test.

4. I hardly call exploration and drilling in areas where there's a 98% chance of economically recoverable oil an 'orgy of drilling.'
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Old 07-23-08, 02:35 PM   #13
Venusian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaSigChi4
It means Chavez isn't a threat to this nation, or to any other nation on this planet, while chickenhawks like yourself are the true threats, to world peace, and the very health of the United States Constitution.

Go find citizenship elsewhere and support perpetual world war in another region with other people.

E
There is no need for name calling or addressing posters instead of issues. Consider yourself warned.
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Old 07-23-08, 02:41 PM   #14
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The issue is that Chavez isn't a threat to this nation OR ANY OTHER NATION ON THE FACE OF THIS PLANET.

I thought that was fairly clear. Individuals who seek war with other sovereign nations are the real threat. It's all fairly simple. Not really overly complicated.

E
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Old 07-23-08, 02:42 PM   #15
classicman2
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There's a threat - and there is a tangible threat.

I believe Chavez 'fits' in the first one.
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Old 07-23-08, 02:43 PM   #16
DeltaSigChi4
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Sort of like Hussein, right.

E
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Old 07-23-08, 02:53 PM   #17
wabio
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Mr. DeltaSigChi must think I'm a right wing conservative or something. Maybe I should go marry Ann Coulter.
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Old 07-23-08, 02:57 PM   #18
wabio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaSigChi4
It means Chavez isn't a threat to this nation, or to any other nation on this planet, while chickenhawks like yourself are the true threats, to world peace, and the very health of the United States Constitution.

Go find citizenship elsewhere and support perpetual world war in another region with other people.

E

Actually. He's a major problem. His anti-American rhetoric is creating havoc on Latin American relations and trade in the western hemisphere. You make it sound like I proposed we attack Iraq or something.
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Old 07-23-08, 03:00 PM   #19
Venusian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaSigChi4
The issue is that Chavez isn't a threat to this nation OR ANY OTHER NATION ON THE FACE OF THIS PLANET.

I thought that was fairly clear. Individuals who seek war with other sovereign nations are the real threat. It's all fairly simple. Not really overly complicated.

E
"President Hugo Chavez urged soldiers on Sunday to prepare for a guerrilla-style war against the United States"

individuals who seek war with other sovereign nations...huh?
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Old 07-23-08, 03:47 PM   #20
classicman2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaSigChi4
Individuals who seek war with other sovereign nations are the real threat. It's all fairly simple. Not really overly complicated.

Did you have that same opinion when Bill Clinton ordered the invasion of the sovereign nation Serbia?
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Old 07-23-08, 04:04 PM   #21
Rockmjd23
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Chavez can cut weight too.
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Old 07-23-08, 06:10 PM   #22
Tuan Jim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dick_grayson
I saw something on the news that gas is something like $0.78/gallon in Venezuela. Not that that has anything to do with this, I just thought it was worth mentioning.
Doesn't mean he can necessarily afford it indefinitely either. Now unlike Iran (actually rationing gasoline) which exports oil but imports gasoline because of a shortage of refining capacity, he might actually be able to produce his own gas. On the other hand, he might soon be like all those Asian countries - ie. Malaysia, Indonesia, etc who have had to cut back on gasoline subsidies despite being large producers in order to actually manage a reasonable budget deficit. Indonesia is actually dropping out of OPEC because they're no longer a net exporter of oil.

Still, we're Venezuela's biggest customer so he can afford to mouth off to us, but he can't afford to lose our business (which is why we need to work more on other alternatives).
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Old 07-23-08, 06:13 PM   #23
classicman2
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There's another thing to 'he can't afford to lose our business.'

We can't afford to lose him as a supplier.
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Old 07-23-08, 06:16 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaSigChi4
The issue is that Chavez isn't a threat to this nation OR ANY OTHER NATION ON THE FACE OF THIS PLANET.


E
Tell it to Colombia.
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Old 07-23-08, 09:00 PM   #25
Dr Mabuse
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i find Russia and China's 'buddying up' to be a far more worrisome affair...

but this isn't good...
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