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Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

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Old 12-20-07, 04:42 PM   #1
JasonF
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Secession!

Well, at least President Bush can say he has something in common with President Lincoln now ...

Quote:
Descendants of Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse break away from US
16 hours ago

WASHINGTON (AFP) ó The Lakota Indians, who gave the world legendary warriors Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse, have withdrawn from treaties with the United States, leaders said Wednesday.

"We are no longer citizens of the United States of America and all those who live in the five-state area that encompasses our country are free to join us," long-time Indian rights activist Russell Means told a handful of reporters and a delegation from the Bolivian embassy, gathered in a church in a run-down neighborhood of Washington for a news conference.

A delegation of Lakota leaders delivered a message to the State Department on Monday, announcing they were unilaterally withdrawing from treaties they signed with the federal government of the United States, some of them more than 150 years old.

They also visited the Bolivian, Chilean, South African and Venezuelan embassies, and will continue on their diplomatic mission and take it overseas in the coming weeks and months, they told the news conference.

Lakota country includes parts of the states of Nebraska, South Dakota, North Dakota, Montana and Wyoming.

The new country would issue its own passports and driving licences, and living there would be tax-free -- provided residents renounce their US citizenship, Means said.

The treaties signed with the United States are merely "worthless words on worthless paper," the Lakota freedom activists say on their website.

The treaties have been "repeatedly violated in order to steal our culture, our land and our ability to maintain our way of life," the reborn freedom movement says.

Withdrawing from the treaties was entirely legal, Means said.

"This is according to the laws of the United States, specifically article six of the constitution," which states that treaties are the supreme law of the land, he said.

"It is also within the laws on treaties passed at the Vienna Convention and put into effect by the US and the rest of the international community in 1980. We are legally within our rights to be free and independent," said Means.

The Lakota relaunched their journey to freedom in 1974, when they drafted a declaration of continuing independence -- an overt play on the title of the United States' Declaration of Independence from England.

Thirty-three years have elapsed since then because "it takes critical mass to combat colonialism and we wanted to make sure that all our ducks were in a row," Means said.

One duck moved into place in September, when the United Nations adopted a non-binding declaration on the rights of indigenous peoples -- despite opposition from the United States, which said it clashed with its own laws.

"We have 33 treaties with the United States that they have not lived by. They continue to take our land, our water, our children," Phyllis Young, who helped organize the first international conference on indigenous rights in Geneva in 1977, told the news conference.

The US "annexation" of native American land has resulted in once proud tribes such as the Lakota becoming mere "facsimiles of white people," said Means.

Oppression at the hands of the US government has taken its toll on the Lakota, whose men have one of the shortest life expectancies -- less than 44 years -- in the world.

Lakota teen suicides are 150 percent above the norm for the United States; infant mortality is five times higher than the US average; and unemployment is rife, according to the Lakota freedom movement's website.

"Our people want to live, not just survive or crawl and be mascots," said Young.

"We are not trying to embarrass the United States. We are here to continue the struggle for our children and grandchildren," she said, predicting that the battle would not be won in her lifetime.
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5...QyT2LwZc9HyAgA
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Old 12-20-07, 04:51 PM   #2
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"Our people want to live, not just survive or crawl and be mascots," said Young.
The same reason I want people to be able to secede from Social Security.
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Old 12-20-07, 04:55 PM   #3
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Good luck with that!
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Old 12-20-07, 05:21 PM   #4
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I don't know how this all plays out, but I assume that also means they won't take any federal money and will have nothing to do with the BIA, etc.
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Old 12-20-07, 05:42 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kvrdave
I don't know how this all plays out, but I assume that also means they won't take any federal money and will have nothing to do with the BIA, etc.
Currently, they are suing BIA and the Department of Interior, alleging for mismanagement of their land and failure to pay royalties on oil that the Department of Interior has extracted from their land. So my guess is they'll continue to have something to do with the federal government.
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Old 12-20-07, 06:45 PM   #6
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Move over Iran, we now have someone else to go to war with. When will we hear they have weapons of mass destruction?
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Old 12-20-07, 07:41 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonF
Currently, they are suing BIA and the Department of Interior, alleging for mismanagement of their land and failure to pay royalties on oil that the Department of Interior has extracted from their land. So my guess is they'll continue to have something to do with the federal government.
Were they only able to sue as a soverign nation and that is why they did this, or is this something to grab headlines over something they were suing over anyway?
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Old 12-20-07, 08:07 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kvrdave
Were they only able to sue as a soverign nation and that is why they did this, or is this something to grab headlines over something they were suing over anyway?
This has nothing to do with the lawsuits, which have been going on for years (the main one started as Cobbell v. Babbitt in 1996, then became Cobbell v. Norton, and is now Cobell v. Kempthorn).

I've done a a little more digging, though, and it's not entirely clear that Russell Means speaks for the Lakota. This may be the equivalent of Gerry Addams declaring that Northern Ireland is seceding from the U.K. -- he can do it, and he'll get some attention because of who he is, but ultimately, he has no power to speak for the people of Northern Ireland (or the Lakota Nation, as the case may be).
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Old 12-20-07, 10:09 PM   #9
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This means absolutely nothing, since Means doesn't speak for the Lakota tribe at all. Plus he's a complete idiot.
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Old 12-21-07, 12:54 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonF
This has nothing to do with the lawsuits, which have been going on for years (the main one started as Cobbell v. Babbitt in 1996, then became Cobbell v. Norton, and is now Cobell v. Kempthorn).

I've done a a little more digging, though, and it's not entirely clear that Russell Means speaks for the Lakota. This may be the equivalent of Gerry Addams declaring that Northern Ireland is seceding from the U.K. -- he can do it, and he'll get some attention because of who he is, but ultimately, he has no power to speak for the people of Northern Ireland (or the Lakota Nation, as the case may be).
That makes this appear to be less news and more stupid.
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Old 12-21-07, 01:46 AM   #11
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No problem. Let's go occupy them.
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Old 12-21-07, 07:35 AM   #12
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I can't wait to visit Lakotaland.
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Old 12-21-07, 07:55 AM   #13
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fine
cut off all federal aid
put up check points and make them have passports to enter the US and make anyone traveling there need a US passport to get back out
charge them export tarriffs on all goods crossing the border

bet their little independence stint would end real fast

if they're willing to live with those restrictions then more power to them and I wish them well

The Senecas here talk about doing shit every once in a while, and a while back they actually did block off I90 with burning tires
Shitzer and Pataxincrease before him kept saying they'd force the Senecas to collect sales tax from non indians but they never actually did it
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Old 12-21-07, 08:08 AM   #14
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Sigh, I guess we need to pass out a few more special blankets.
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Old 12-23-07, 02:57 AM   #15
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Yeah but have you seen the new map of the area this covers....LOL.

Well there can't be that many of them left, lets take em. I'll go get my BB gun.
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Old 12-23-07, 03:47 AM   #16
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Um...aren't reservations sovereign nations anyway?
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Old 12-24-07, 09:41 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcatlh
This means absolutely nothing, since Means doesn't speak for the Lakota tribe at all.

Bingo
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Old 12-24-07, 11:10 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AGuyNamedMike
Sigh, I guess we need to pass out a few more special blankets.
Egads man. I'm as politically incorrect as anyone, but that is honestly equivilent to giving the Jews special showers.
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Old 12-24-07, 12:22 PM   #19
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If I didn't know better, I'd think those Indians on the reservation were drinking.
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Old 12-24-07, 12:26 PM   #20
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Old 12-24-07, 07:39 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonF
Well, at least President Bush can say he has something in common with President Lincoln now ...
He has a lot in common with Lincoln. Both were extremely hated while in office (Lincoln only became beloved after being assassinated). Both were considered "tyrants".
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Old 12-26-07, 09:38 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by nodeerforamonth
He has a lot in common with Lincoln. Both were extremely hated while in office (Lincoln only became beloved after being assassinated). Both were considered "tyrants".
They were both Republicans, they both suspended habeus corpus, and they were both avid readers of the Bible.

Also, Lincoln had a secretary named Kennedy, while George W. Bush is the worst President in American history.
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Old 12-26-07, 09:51 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by NCMojo
Also, Lincoln had a secretary named Kennedy, while George W. Bush is the worst President in American history.
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Old 12-26-07, 10:24 AM   #24
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There are a couple of movements out in the west regarding secession.

This is more of creating a new state, state of Jefferson:

http://www.jeffersonstate.com/

This one is more of creating a new country (looks like a joke though):

http://zapatopi.net/cascadia/
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Old 12-26-07, 10:33 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinBlank
Um...aren't reservations sovereign nations anyway?
"Tribal sovereignty means that. Itís sovereign. Youíre a Ö youíre a Ö youíve been given sovereignty and youíre viewed as a sovereign entity."
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