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Old 07-20-06, 06:41 AM   #1
Nickee
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Virginia warms up Ol' Sparky

Here in Virginia, it’s good to know death row inmates have a choice:


http://timesdispatch.com/servlet/Sat...=1149189262425

Killer slated to die tonight

Hedrick would be first executed in Virginia's electric chair in 3 years

BY FRANK GREEN
TIMES-DISPATCH STAFF WRITER Jul 20, 2006


Barring intervention by the U.S. Supreme Court or Gov. Timothy M. Kaine, Brandon Wayne Hedrick will die tonight for the 1997 shotgun slaying of a 23-year-old Lynchburg woman.

Hedrick, 27, is set to be executed in Virginia's electric chair at 9 p.m. He would be the first man executed by electrocution in Virginia in three years and in more than two years anywhere in the country.

He can, however, change his mind and ask to die by injection, as have 68 out of 71 Virginia killers since Jan. 1, 1995, when they were first given a choice. The Virginia Department of Corrections said it is prepared to carry out either manner of execution.

Hedrick was convicted of abducting, raping, robbing and killing Lisa Crider, the mother of a boy who was then 5 years old. Crider was shot in the face with a shotgun along the James River in Appomattox County.

Hedrick pulled the trigger. His accomplice, Trevor Jones, 28, who played key roles in the slay- ing, was given a life sentence.

Dale Alexander of Altavista, Crider's mother, said yesterday that, "I don't hold any malice at this point towards him." Because, she said, "he's paying. Now if he wasn't paying for what he did, it would be different.

"At the last minute, he might come up with a rabbit out of his hat," she said. But, she added, "I know they're not just going to let him go, and justice will be served."

Hedrick's lawyers have an appeal before the U.S. Supreme Court and a clemency petition before Kaine.

Hedrick's lawyers contend among other things that Hedrick may be retarded. The U.S. Supreme Court has banned the execution of killers who are mentally retarded. In the past, Hedrick has given up on his appeals and attempted suicide.

Hedrick's lawyers said they do not know why he opted for the electric chair instead of lethal injection.

The clemency petition to Kaine contends Hedrick was given shoddy representation by his trial lawyers who did little research and offered little evidence on Hedrick's behalf during the sentencing phase of his trial.

Prominent Virginia criminal defense lawyers -- Craig S. Cooley of Richmond and Anthony F. Anderson of Roanoke among them -- have written Kaine urging him to grant clemency because of what they called the poor job performed by his trial lawyers.

Cooley, who helped keep sniper Lee Boyd Malvo off death row, wrote: "as an attorney and as a citizen of our commonwealth, it is extremely disturbing that a person could be executed when the quality of defense representation appointed to him was so lacking in effort, quality and effect."

Larry Traylor, spokesman for the Department of Corrections, said preparations for the execution continued yesterday at the Greensville Correctional Center in Jarratt, where Virginia executions are conducted.
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Old 07-20-06, 07:14 AM   #2
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Why is it that so many piss-poor lawyers are arguing capital cases in criminal court? I've read tales of lawyers falling asleep during trial, of being drunk, of defense attorneys working in cahoots with the police... since so many of them seem to end up with good, capable lawyers once they actually get the Death Row... why can't this happen before they are sentenced to die?
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Old 07-20-06, 07:21 AM   #3
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Notoriety maybe? The big guns like to see their name in the paper, and "death row inmate" is a lot sexier than "defendant".
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Old 07-20-06, 10:31 AM   #4
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Hummm, pay for this guy's food, cable, water, shelter etc... while he plays basketball, watches tv, reads books, finds loopholes in his sentencing, and drops the soap with my tax dollars, or fry him.... I really don't know which one is the best choice here....
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Old 07-20-06, 10:52 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gijon213
Hummm, pay for this guy's food, cable, water, shelter etc... while he plays basketball, watches tv, reads books, finds loopholes in his sentencing, and drops the soap with my tax dollars, or fry him.... I really don't know which one is the best choice here....
You're also spending money on the guy arrested for possession of narcotics, and the one who wrote bad checks... not to mention rapists, pushers, embezzlers and prostitutes. Actually, it's a heck of a lot cheaper to just throw somebody in a regular jail cell than it is to execute them, so... if you're really all about saving money, you should be vehemently against the death penalty.
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Old 07-20-06, 11:50 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCMojo
You're also spending money on the guy arrested for possession of narcotics, and the one who wrote bad checks... not to mention rapists, pushers, embezzlers and prostitutes. Actually, it's a heck of a lot cheaper to just throw somebody in a regular jail cell than it is to execute them, so... if you're really all about saving money, you should be vehemently against the death penalty.
Cheaper to take care of them for the rest of their lives rather than just kill them? Explain...
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Old 07-20-06, 11:55 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Anubis2005X
Cheaper to take care of them for the rest of their lives rather than just kill them? Explain...
It's cheaper to feed and house them for 25-50 years than it is to feed and house and clothe and put offspring through college for the team of defense lawyers provided at government cost to bring appeal after appeal as well as the built-in cost of the courts in which those appeals are weighed.
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Old 07-20-06, 12:01 PM   #8
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do the appeals really clog up the courts that bad? I thought the number of judges was fixed by law?
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Old 07-20-06, 12:02 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCMojo
You're also spending money on the guy arrested for possession of narcotics, and the one who wrote bad checks... not to mention rapists, pushers, embezzlers and prostitutes. Actually, it's a heck of a lot cheaper to just throw somebody in a regular jail cell than it is to execute them, so... if you're really all about saving money, you should be vehemently against the death penalty.
This is more a critique of our judicial system (which allows lawyers at taxpayer expense for the indigent) than it is about the punishment. It's a valid point but it only really applies for those represented by court-appointed attorneys.

Even so, "cost" is not one of the reasons why I support the death penalty.
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Old 07-20-06, 12:19 PM   #10
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There's more to the cost issue than just lawyers and appeals. Imagine what would happen to prisons and to the small communities which depend on them for their survival if you started killing off all the inmates. Prisons are big business in the US.
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Old 07-20-06, 01:40 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eXcentris
There's more to the cost issue than just lawyers and appeals. Imagine what would happen to prisons and to the small communities which depend on them for their survival if you started killing off all the inmates. Prisons are big business in the US.
I've never thought of it this way, but nobody wants to "Kill off all the inmates." Shoplifters don't deserve to die, as a general example. Searching the archives of my local paper, I came across the AP story the OP posted about.

Electrocution nears for killer
The Associated Press
RICHMOND, Va. — Weeping as one of her captors bound her with duct tape, the young woman made a final desperate plea for her life, telling the two men she was a mother.

Unmoved, Brandon Hedrick and Trevor Jones forced Lisa Crider to a remote bank of the James River.

“Do what you gotta do,” Jones told his friend. Hedrick squeezed the trigger, firing a shotgun blast into Crider’s face.

Her body was discovered that evening — on Mother’s Day.

“The sum of Lisa was roses and doves. She was peace loving, no gossip, no maliciousness,” said her mother, Dale Alexander of Altavista. “She would try to protect anybody around her.”

Jones was sentenced to life in prison; Hedrick got the death penalty.

Barring intervention from the U.S. Supreme Court or Gov. Timothy M. Kaine, Hedrick will be executed Thursday for the 1997 rape and murder of the 23-year-old woman.

Hedrick chose the electric chair instead of lethal injection; he would be the first person in the U.S. to be executed by electrocution in more than two years.

The victim’s son Tracy, now 14, wanted to witness the execution, but he is too young.

“He does want to see justice done,” his grandmother said.

I was looking for this story. Driving home on Broad River Road Friday night, where the executions are carried out, I passed a bunch of protestors carrying signs decrying the lethal injection of this monster. It made me want to stop my car and beat them with their picket signs. Apparently, none of them have six year old children, or any compassion whatsoever. In my humble opinion, which is all that it is, I think we need to bring back public executions and make the process much quicker. All of these appeals do take too long. Once they are found guilty, carry the sentence out the next month. Too much time spent from the time of incarceration until trial, anyway. Also notice that this SOB, once he was condemned to die, last year admitted to another murder of a 10 year old. His punishment for that was two life sentences, plus 10 years. He basically got a freebie. Why wouldn't he agree to that? Why not just give him two life sentences, and 20 years? It's the same. Also notice that in both cases, he sexually assaulted the victims AFTER they were dead.

Georgia man put to death
By MEG KINNARD
The Associated Press
Making no final statement and keeping his eyes trained on the ceiling, William “Junior” Downs was put to death by lethal injection Friday for the 1999 kidnapping, rape and murder of a 6-year-old North Augusta boy.

The 39-year-old Augusta, Ga., man said he stopped Keenan O’Mailia as the boy rode his bicycle along a dirt path. Downs said he asked the boy his name, then threw him to the ground and strangled him.

Downs, who did not pursue any appeals, pleaded guilty to the crimes in 2002. Before he was sentenced to death, Downs told Circuit Judge Casey Manning he deserved to die for his crime.

“I think it would be disrespectful to the family and disrespectful to the whole world if you did not give me the death penalty,” Downs said then.

Downs also pleaded guilty in 2005 to kidnapping, raping and killing a 10-year-old boy in Augusta in 1991. As part of a plea deal, and since he was already condemned to die in South Carolina, Downs agreed to be sentenced to two consecutive life sentences, plus 10 years.

In both cases, authorities said Downs sexually assaulted the victims after they were dead.

The mother of the Georgia victim was present to watch Downs take his final breath. Kathy Porter Favors sat in the front row of the witnesses’ viewing area, quietly weeping and wiping her eyes as the execution was carried out.

Two of Downs’ family members also witnessed his death. His brother, William Kelvin Downs, and sister, Carla Susan German, sat in the seats nearest to their brother’s head. As the chemicals began to take their effect, and the color began to drain from their brother’s face, William Downs took his sister’s hand as she wept.



They should have given the family members all baseball bats. What about the family members of the 10 year old? What did they gain for this?? They were lost in the shuffle.

Think about this. What would you do if your six year child, boy or girl died this way? This story almost makes me cry.
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Last edited by duse; 07-20-06 at 01:44 PM.
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Old 07-20-06, 01:57 PM   #12
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My point was that, if cost is your only motivating factor, it's a piss-poor reason to support the death penalty. The reason it costs so damn much is because it is damn final -- we can't go back later on with new DNA evidence and say, "whoops, we made a mistake" and let the person go free. So before we warm up ol' Sparky, we need to be absolutely sure that we got our facts right.

And in the vast majority of capital cases, there really are grounds for appeals. From public defendents who are criminally neglicent or derelict in their duty, to police departments who fabricate evidence in order to make a case, to DAs who twist around testimony and deliberately withhold evidence, to juries that are swayed by their emotions and the desire to seek vengence and dismiss the burden of proof... the fact is that the majority of people on death row are poor, and our legal system is predicated on the idea that if you have enough money, you can literally get away with murder.

Is that a critique of the system? Sure. But it's also an acknowledgement that you can't just execute people quickly, cheaply and easily, because of the irrevokable nature of capital punishment. You have to give them the opportunity to appeal, not just once (because winning an appeal is much more difficult than winning a criminal case) but multiple times -- and that costs money.

You want to save money? Lock these bastards up in a cage.
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Old 07-20-06, 02:30 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCMojo
My point was that, if cost is your only motivating factor, it's a piss-poor reason to support the death penalty. The reason it costs so damn much is because it is damn final -- we can't go back later on with new DNA evidence and say, "whoops, we made a mistake" and let the person go free. So before we warm up ol' Sparky, we need to be absolutely sure that we got our facts right.

And in the vast majority of capital cases, there really are grounds for appeals. From public defendents who are criminally neglicent or derelict in their duty, to police departments who fabricate evidence in order to make a case, to DAs who twist around testimony and deliberately withhold evidence, to juries that are swayed by their emotions and the desire to seek vengence and dismiss the burden of proof... the fact is that the majority of people on death row are poor, and our legal system is predicated on the idea that if you have enough money, you can literally get away with murder.

Is that a critique of the system? Sure. But it's also an acknowledgement that you can't just execute people quickly, cheaply and easily, because of the irrevokable nature of capital punishment. You have to give them the opportunity to appeal, not just once (because winning an appeal is much more difficult than winning a criminal case) but multiple times -- and that costs money.

You want to save money? Lock these bastards up in a cage.
Pulling this up for the Mississippi State Prison

MDOC's FY 2002 general cost per inmate day for a 1,000
bed facility totaled $45.45 and included the following
components:
Direct Costs:
Basic housing & visitation:
Salary costs $21.13
Other costs 4.30
Education & training 1.70
Food 2.20
Farming 0.33
Medical 5.67
Parole Board 0.07
Allocated administrative costs 2.48
Total Operating costs $37.88
Annual Debt Service 7.57
Total Average Daily Costs $45.45
MDOC's FY 2002 costs per inmate day for individual
security classifications in a 1,000-bed facility were as
follows: minimum security, $39.45; medium security,
$42.26; and maximum security, $68.61. MDOC's FY 2002
costs per inmate day for security classifications in a 500-
bed psychiatric correctional facility were $54.03 for
medium security and $72.21 for maximum security.

The person in question is 27. The average lifespan is 77 for males.

That means, according to these numbers, he is going to cost the tax payers $829,462.50 Now I know this isn't Virgina, but I am sure the numbers are fairly similar.

That is from right now, after all the litigation has already transpired. That, I am sure, cost a nice mint, but that is besides to point for this guy, since the price has already been paid. He is going to cost an additional 830,000 to just live. Or, they can kill him and be down with it. Now, since his lawyers are trying to get him to be labeled clinically insane and since he has a tendency for violent nature, he probably would go to a max security psychiatric correctional facility, which jumps the cost of his confinement amount to $1,317,832.50

I agree with you that it costs a prohibiting amount of money to get to this point, and I also agree with being 100% certain of the person's guilt. But in those cases, where there is no doubt what so ever, thier shouldn't be a problem with convicting some one obviously guilty, and executing him. And depending on the evidence, thier number of appeals should be limited, if not refused all together.
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Old 07-20-06, 03:24 PM   #14
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Although according to this article (albeit from 2000), Virginia’s death penalty is one of the most efficient in the country.

http://www.truthinjustice.org/dpfoes.htm


Virginia executed eight inmates in 2000
Dec 27, 2000
BY FRANK GREEN
TIMES-DISPATCH STAFF WRITER

They used a hammer, a crowbar, two shotguns and assorted handguns. Among them, they killed 17 people - mothers, fathers, children, store clerks, a college freshman and a state trooper.

Some of the victims died instantly; others suffered great pain and unspeakable indignities.

Eight capital murderers were put to death in Virginia this year. Only Texas (40) and Oklahoma (11) executed more. Virginia's executed were replaced by eight more killers sent to death row in 2000 by judges and juries.

A national study released in June found death cases were reversed by appeals courts less often in Virginia than in any other state and Virginia led the nation in the percentage of death sentences carried out.

For those who believe in the necessity for the state's ultimate sanction, it was a successful year for meting out justice to the worst of Virginia's criminals.

But in the past 12 months, questions have arisen about Virginia's capital punishment system, the most efficient in the country and, until October, a system that could be touted as error-free.

Indeed, foes of capital punishment have been heartened more by developments this past year, perhaps more than in any other year since the death penalty was reinstituted in Virginia in 1977.

In 2000, two death row inmates whose death sentences were reversed by the U.S. Supreme Court wound up with life sentences instead. In one case, the justices, for the first time in the nation, ruled a condemned man had not received adequate legal representation.

A former death row inmate, Earl Washington Jr., was cleared of the 1982 rape and capital murder - for which he was nearly executed in 1985 - by a DNA test and received an absolute pardon.

And an ACLU study this year questioned the way capital punishment is being administered in the commonwealth. Another study, prompted by the General Assembly last month, will be conducted next year.

Gov. Jim Gilmore remains a strong supporter of Virginia's system of capital punishment. Yet concerns, reflected in proposals to change rules or laws, have been expressed by both the legislature and the judiciary.

One Republican legislator, a long-time supporter of the death penalty, has promised to sponsor a bill that would end it.

Of all the developments, Washington's case carries the most import.
"I think it teaches us that even in a situation where 12 people have found a person guilty beyond a reasonable doubt and a judge has approved that finding, that mistakes can be made," said William G. Broaddus, a former Virginia attorney general who now opposes the death penalty.

He said that "while it's important we have confidence in the criminal justice system - and I think that confidence is deserved and well placed - we should never be so sure of a result that we should refuse to examine new" evidence of innocence.

Washington spent 91/2 years on death row.
Gilmore, said spokesman Mark A. Miner, sees nothing in the Washington case that would warrant changes in Virginia's system. Miner said the Washington case proves the system works in that the truth came out in the end.
But Broaddus said: "The system would not have worked if he had been executed in September of 1985 when I was attorney general. How could it have worked then?"

Washington came within nine days of being executed that month. A prison activist was able to find him a lawyer in New York, and the execution was called off.

Broaddus said the Washington case and others "have had an important legacy: there is dialogue which is going on now concerning the system that perhaps otherwise would not have occurred."

Richard Dieter agrees. Nationally, "I think the big story this year is the change in the atmosphere of the death penalty," he said.

Dieter is the director of the Death Penalty Information Center in Washington, which opposes the way the death penalty is administered. He said developments this past year include conservatives expressing doubts about the death penalty, new studies showing serious flaws in death cases and "the continuing problem of innocence."

"I think that has created a new sense that there are serious problems, that this is a broken system. There may be legislative fixes, but there will be more calls for moratoriums and even abolition, and that includes Virginia," he said.
In the past, that might not have been credible, he said. "But now, I think, it has gained some possibility of success."

A report released last week by the death penalty center, titled "A Watershed Year of Change," concluded:
"Former supporters of the death penalty joined longtime critics in raising concerns about the accuracy and fairness of capital punishment in America. More conservative voices, such as those of Rev. Pat Robertson, Oliver North . . . columnist George Will, and others voiced strong criticisms of the death penalty. The risk of taking innocent lives and the gross inequities in the way the death penalty is applied have led to a new consensus that the system is seriously broken."

Foes of death penalty here aren't pinning hopes on an outright ban, but they believe developments have generated interest in a moratorium.

Henry Heller, director of Virginians for Alternatives to the Death Penalty, said, "It's heartening to see all these years of struggle where you're trying to be heard, that they're finally listening."

"We've got a system that's broken," Heller said. "How can we kill people still with a system that's broken?"

Heller said that his organization is focusing on winning a moratorium. so the system can be studied for flaws.

A moratorium has been endorsed by two local bar associations, five newspapers, the Charlottesville City Council, the Virginia chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, the General Assembly's Black Caucus and dozens of churches, religious groups and clergy.
Robertson, the Virginia Beach television evangelist, came out in favor of a moratorium on executions. A poll of Virginians this fall indicated a majority of Virginians agreed.

But the proposal hasn't won any widespread support in the legislature. Gilmore, a former commonwealth's attorney in Henrico County, has repeatedly rejected the idea.

This year, Gilmore's Republican counterpart in Illinois, Gov. George H. Ryan, announced a moratorium in that state on executions so the system could be studied in light of the 13 wrongful death sentences.

Former President Jimmy Carter, a former Georgia governor, called for a moratorium Oct. 12.

A North Carolina legislative committee that analyzed the death penalty there voted in October to make several recommendations when the General Assembly returns in January. Among them is a temporary halt to executions until the state can ensure the death penalty is being applied fairly.

Developments in Virginia this year include:
• The Virginia Supreme Court announced it plans to change Virginia's 21-day rule in capital murder cases. The rule prevents courts from considering evidence discovered more than 21 days after final judgment.
• The Virginia Crime Commission has drafted proposed legislation that would permit prisoners to obtain new DNA testing and give the deserving a way to get the evidence heard in a court.
• An ACLU study alleged the death penalty in Virginia has been marked by unfair trials, poor representation of defendants, limited appeals court review and the possible execution of innocent men.
• A national death penalty study by the Columbia University School of Law found that fewer death-penalty cases are reversed on appeal in Virginia than anywhere in the country, and the state leads the nation in the percentage of death sentences carried out.

It found that Virginia's execution rate was nearly double that of the next nearest state studied and nearly five times the national average, while its reversal rate was nearly half that of the next nearest state and about one-fourth the national average.

Supporters of the death penalty said the study demonstrated it was being administered better in Virginia than anywhere else in the country. Opponents said it demonstrated that its state and federal appeals courts do not give adequate scrutiny to Virginia death cases
.
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Old 07-20-06, 03:48 PM   #15
eXcentris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gijon213
But in those cases, where there is no doubt what so ever, thier shouldn't be a problem with convicting some one obviously guilty, and executing him.
Well except if you believe that the death penalty is barbaric and uncivilized, that government's shouldn't be in the business of executing their citizens, that the death penalty has more to do with vengeance than justice, and that justice shoudn't be rendered according to the suffering of the victims and their families. But I guess those are just a few minor quibbles.
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Old 07-20-06, 03:50 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eXcentris
Well except if you believe that the death penalty is barbaric and uncivilized, that government's shouldn't be in the business of executing their citizens, that the death penalty has more to do with vengeance than justice, and that justice shoudn't be rendered according to the suffering of the victims and their families. But I guess those are just a few minor quibbles.
Where have you been all my life??? I think I am in love!
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Old 07-20-06, 03:55 PM   #17
eXcentris
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Please tell me you are neither:

a) A male
b) A crazed woman internet stalker

(runs away!)

......
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Old 07-20-06, 04:10 PM   #18
elperdido
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eXcentris
Please tell me you are neither:

a) A male
b) A crazed woman internet stalker

(runs away!)

......
Sorry..... I am a man
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Old 07-21-06, 07:16 AM   #19
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This looks like politics. Moving thread.
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Old 07-21-06, 08:18 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eXcentris
Well except if you believe that the death penalty is barbaric and uncivilized, that government's shouldn't be in the business of executing their citizens, that the death penalty has more to do with vengeance than justice, and that justice shoudn't be rendered according to the suffering of the victims and their families. But I guess those are just a few minor quibbles.
(For your post and this response, we're assuming we know those who are executed are 100% guilty.)

Why is it barbaric and uncivilized if the murderer is executed by the state only after a fair trial with due process?

Why shouldn't the government be in the business of executing cold-blooded murderers when the government is in the business of dishing out punishment to all lawbreakers?

Who says the DP has more to do with vengence than justice? Do you think the U.S. justice system in general has no retributive aspects to it?

How is justice dished out according to the victim's families? They get to speak in court after the conviction but so do the convict's families. Then it is a jury who decides whether the convict receives the DP.

So...who wants to say they love me? Maybe I'm just not as warm and cuddly.
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Old 07-21-06, 08:21 AM   #21
GIjon213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eXcentris
Well except if you believe that the death penalty is barbaric and uncivilized, that government's shouldn't be in the business of executing their citizens, that the death penalty has more to do with vengeance than justice, and that justice shoudn't be rendered according to the suffering of the victims and their families. But I guess those are just a few minor quibbles.
I would agree with you about it being barbaric and uncivilized if it was hanging, beheading, or some form of execution that also serves as torment to the condemned. And, to a point, the government is not responsible for the verdict, we, the people, are. The death penalty is about justice, which has fairness as it's first definition. I am sure vengeance is sought by the family members and loved ones of the victim, but they are not the court system. They aren't allowed to issue judgement or punishment on the one responsible. I am sure if they were allowed to, then their would be a barbaric and uncivilized execution. Also, the death penalty is a deterrent. Like I said before, if there is a shadow of reasonable doubt, the death penalty shouldn't even be considered. The whole case shouldn't be considered. Do I acknowledge there is corruption in our court system? Yes, of course there is, in all levels of life there is corruption. But there are also safeguards in place to deflect the damage caused by this corruption. With criminology and forensics progressing like they have over the past 15 years, I would think that proving a case has become much easier, and the likelihood of a mistake rendered almost nil.
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Old 07-21-06, 12:18 PM   #22
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Beheading isn't cruel if the head is lopped off with one stroke. It isn't unusual if it gets done more often.
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Old 07-21-06, 01:26 PM   #23
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I have no problems with the concept of the death penalty. I think there are acts that effectively forfeit a person's right to live. If you murder a 6-year-old, you have lost your own right to life. Period. End of discussion.

However, it has to be an ironclad situation for me to support an execution. If there is any serious doubt or problems with the trial, I'm okay with a severely restrictive lifetime in prison.

These guys sound like real pieces of work, so I'm not sorry to see them go. Just gotta make sure everything is in order before we flip the switch.
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Old 07-21-06, 02:00 PM   #24
Nausicaa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gijon213
Also, the death penalty is a deterrent.
It is widely agreed that the death penalty is NOT a deterrent.

Death penalty states have higher homocide rates than states without it. People commit murder because, a) it is an act of rage, a murder in the heat of the moment without premeditation, b) the murderer does not expect to get caught (no one murders with the intention of being arrested), c) the person is mentally ill and out to kill for the sake of killing (serial killers, etc.).

In the first instance, obviously the DP will not act as a deterrent since the murder is committed with no forethought and thus no consideration of possible consequences. This also includes people who are under the influence of a substance. Regarding b), the murder will be committed regardless of the consequences because the murderer does not believe they will ever come to fruition. Finally, people with mental disorders kill because they have to satisfy some twisted desire. In the vast majority of these cases, the wacko or serial killer in question will always try and hide whatever incriminating evidence there might be, suggesting that they know their actions are wrong yet they do them anyway.

The death penalty IS barbaric and I believe that people who support it are hypocritical because they support it with the same malice, hatred, vengeance, or sick desire that caused the murderer to commit his crime in the first place. By supporting state sanctioned murder, you are, in effect, an accomplice to said murder.
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Old 07-21-06, 03:50 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nausicaa
It is widely agreed that the death penalty is NOT a deterrent.

Death penalty states have higher homocide rates than states without it.
Is that the killing of only gay people? Sorry, couldn't resist

There are only 12 states that currently don't have a death penalty statute, Alaska, Hawaii, Iowa, West Virginia, Maine, Vermont, North Dakota, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, and Wisconsin. Kansas and New York are the only two states that have ruled the DP unconstitutional.

Quote:
Death penalty states have higher homocide rates than states without it. People commit murder because, a) it is an act of rage, a murder in the heat of the moment without premeditation, b) the murderer does not expect to get caught (no one murders with the intention of being arrested), c) the person is mentally ill and out to kill for the sake of killing (serial killers, etc.).

In the first instance, obviously the DP will not act as a deterrent since the murder is committed with no forethought and thus no consideration of possible consequences. This also includes people who are under the influence of a substance. Regarding b), the murder will be committed regardless of the consequences because the murderer does not believe they will ever come to fruition. Finally, people with mental disorders kill because they have to satisfy some twisted desire. In the vast majority of these cases, the wacko or serial killer in question will always try and hide whatever incriminating evidence there might be, suggesting that they know their actions are wrong yet they do them anyway.
(a) I agree, passion crimes are something where there is no thought of the consequences. (b) You are implying that the perpetrator has premeditated his crime, and decided that he won't get caught. There is no statistic that states how many people weighed the consequences and decided not to kill. (c) This is a combination of the last two points, where a person is driven to deviant behavior which he replicates often. To this, I would say these people should be first in line for execution, because no amount of rehabilitation will help them and they are only a burden on society. Plus, they are anomalies, few and far between.

Quote:
The death penalty IS barbaric and I believe that people who support it are hypocritical because they support it with the same malice, hatred, vengeance, or sick desire that caused the murderer to commit his crime in the first place. By supporting state sanctioned murder, you are, in effect, an accomplice to said murder.
It is not my, how do you say, malice, hatred, vengeance, or sick desire that has me as a supporter of the DP, it is these qualities in another that leads me to the belief that they shouldn't be on this earth. I am not alone in this, 60% of Americans believe the same way. Furthermore, we, the people, sit on a jury, not the state.

My point is that these animals that committed horrible acts and should not be allowed to live, to influence others, and to possibly get paroled and start all over again. My second point is that these criminals are taking up valuable space and taxpayer's dollars with every breath they take. That is it. They don't deserve mercy, they don't deserve freedom, and they certainly don't deserve to live. They deserve justice.
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