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Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

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Old 06-27-06, 12:17 PM   #1
General Zod
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Israel about to go into Gaza [1/21/09 update - they're out]

So here we go. When Israel gave up the Gaza strip I posted then it was a big mistake and all the Palestinians would do is use it to launch attacks on Israel and that's exactly what has happened. Hamas is trying to play the Arafat card and claim they have no control over the millitants. Uh huh..

Israel has attempted time and time again to extend the hand of peace and they've gotten bit each time. When there's only one side that wants it, it's never going to happen.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5119732.stm

Quote:
US urges calm over Israeli gunner
Israeli tanks mass on border
The Israeli army is on standby for an "extensive" operation

US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has urged Israel to "give diplomacy a chance" in the standoff over an Israeli soldier held by Palestinian militants.

Israeli tanks and troops are massing on the border of Gaza, where it is thought the soldier is being held.

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has warned a large scale military operation is rapidly approaching.

"There really needs to be an effort now to try and calm the situation," Ms Rice told reporters en route to Pakistan.

Mr Olmert has refused to release any Palestinian prisoners in exchange for information about tank gunner Gilad Shalit.

He was responding to a demand by three militant groups that women and youths should be freed from Israeli jails.

Intense diplomatic efforts have been under way since the soldier's disappearance, including mediation by an Egyptian delegation in the Gaza Strip.

The BBC's Jon Leyne, in Jerusalem, says that if mediation efforts fail both Israel and the Palestinians face huge tests.

The Israeli leader must choose between going ahead with military action that would endanger the life of the captured soldier or risk being seen as weak, our correspondent says.

And the Hamas-led Palestinian government must decide whether they are really willing to risk a full-scale attack from the Israelis which could have disastrous consequences.

There are also fears a severe humanitarian crisis and a large numbers of casualties should Israel invades Gaza.

In other developments:

* The Israeli military says it has arrested 43 suspected Palestinian militants in overnight raids across the West Bank

* Egypt has deployed hundreds of riot police along its border with the Gaza Strip to stop any Palestinian attempts to cross illegally in the event of Israeli raids, Reuters news agency reports

* Israeli police says it is taking reports of the kidnapping of a West Bank settler "very seriously" - one of the groups said to be involved in the capture of Gila Shalit has said it abducted the settler

'Time running out'

Mr Olmert has put the army on standby for an extensive military operation against Palestinian militants to free Cpl Shalit and Israeli tanks and armoured vehicles have been assembling on the Gaza border.

"The question of freeing [Palestinian] prisoners is in no way on the Israeli government agenda," Mr Olmert said during a speech in Jerusalem.

"There will be no negotiations, no bargaining, no agreements."

Mr Olmert said that Israel would not allow itself to become the victim of "Hamas-terrorist blackmail", warning that "a large-scale military operation is approaching".

Cpl Shalit is believed to have been seized by militants who tunnelled out of Gaza to attack the army post at Kerem Shalom.

Two Israeli troops and two militants were killed during the raid.


Diplomatic efforts

Hamas political leaders have denied any knowledge of the tank gunner's whereabouts - but they have called for him to be well treated.

The faxed statement calling for the prisoners' release was signed by the Popular Resistance Committees umbrella group, Hamas's Izzedine al-Qassam Brigades, and the previously unknown Army of Islam.

It said: "The Occupation [Israel] will not get any information about its missing soldier until it commits to the following:

"First, the immediate release of all women in prison. Second, the immediate release of all children in prison younger than 18."

Israel is believed to have incarcerated about 100 women and 300 under-18s among the 9,000 Palestinian prisoners it is holding in its jails.

Israeli officials say they hold Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas and Prime Minister Ismail Haniya, of Hamas, responsible for the 19-year-old Israeli's safety.

Correspondents say the crisis could spoil efforts to bind Hamas into a plan implicitly recognising Israel, and may expose divisions between hardline and more pragmatic Hamas elements.
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Old 06-27-06, 12:51 PM   #2
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Oh boy.
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Old 06-27-06, 01:01 PM   #3
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I disagree with Condi.
Diplomacy has been given numerous chances in this conflict.
Give war a chance. Get your soldier (and settler) back, and kick some ass.
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Old 06-27-06, 01:13 PM   #4
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*Wrings Hands* This is only going to make the militants madder. They'll hate us more.
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Old 06-27-06, 01:34 PM   #5
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The US tells Israel to use "diplomacy" yet we had 8,000 US Troops looking for 2 kidnapped soldiers.

Man I tell yah the US is just getting more hypocritical by the day.

Hey Condi et al: Let Israel do their own fucking war the way THEY WANT TO, thanks. We have our own to worry about.
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Last edited by DVD Polizei; 06-27-06 at 01:37 PM.
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Old 06-27-06, 03:30 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DVD Polizei
Man I tell yah the US is just getting more hypocritical by the day.
I wasn't aware that Israel's relationship with Gaza was the same as the US with Iraq. Who knew?
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Old 06-27-06, 06:44 PM   #7
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It has begun...

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/...ier/index.html


Israel strikes Gaza bridges, power plant

JERUSALEM (CNN) -- Israeli warplanes knocked out power to much of northern and central Gaza early Wednesday as Israel demanded the return of a soldier kidnapped by Palestinian militants.

Israeli aircraft also attacked two bridges in central Gaza to limit the militants' ability to move the soldier, the Israel Defense Forces said.

Video from the Palestinian Ramattan news agency showed fires burning at the site of the power station.

Israeli troops and tanks are massed along the Gaza border, but the IDF said land units had not crossed into Gaza.

Prime Minister Ehud Olmert on Tuesday threatened an "extended campaign" against Palestinian leaders unless 19-year-old Cpl. Gilad Shalit is released.

"All targets" would be considered for possible action, Olmert told Israel's parliament, the day after ruling out any deals with militants for Shalit's release.

"We would not make compromises with terror. We would not hold negotiation with [terror]," Olmert told the Knesset amid the escalating crisis.

"No terrorist would be immune."

Capt. Jacob Dallal, an Israeli military spokesman, denied reports that Israeli ground troops had crossed into Gaza, but he said Israel will go to "whatever lengths necessary" to bring Shalit back.

"We are trying to make it clear to the Palestinian Authority and to the terror organizations that we will take the necessary steps to secure his safe return," he said.

Israel has slapped a land and sea blockade on Gaza, cutting off people's movements and shipments of fuel and food, nine months after returning control of the territory to the Palestinians. (Watch tanks mass as tensions run high -- 2:27)

Inside Gaza, Palestinians have dumped piles of sand on major roads, intended to slow any advance of Israeli tanks and armor and provide cover for gunmen.

Israel says it is holding the Palestinian Authority responsible for the safety of Shalit, who was captured Sunday by Palestinian militants at a guard post inside Israel.

Olmert said he did not want to hurt innocents, but the Israeli defense minister said the potential offensive would be deadly.

"There is no doubt we will have to carry out an operation which could cost many lives, but the Palestinian groups have to understand there is a price to pay for any attacks against Israel," said Defense Minister Amir Peretz.

Israeli leaders said Hamas officials, including political leader Khaled Meshaal, who is in exile in Syria, could be targets of Israeli military action.

Aides said Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas and Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniya were directly involved in negotiations to free Shalit.

The Palestinian factions Fatah, headed by Abbas, and Haniya's Hamas, have pleaded with Israel to hold off on military action, saying an offensive would only complicate efforts to end the crisis.

Palestinian leaders have also said they fear Israel will not stop at freeing Shalit but will also go after Palestinian militants who have fired hundreds of crude Qassam rockets into Israel in recent months.

Israeli Deputy Prime Minister Shimon Peres recognized a split between the politicians and the militants, saying Meshaal was behind the kidnapping and "wants to destroy any chance for peace." (Watch Peres' take on the escalating border tensions -- 6:27)

"All this was done against, maybe, the better judgment of the Palestinian leaders on the ground. The orders came from Syria. They came from a gentleman who wants to destroy any chance for peace," Peres said.

Meshaal, the head of the Hamas political office, lives in exile in Damascus.

"A small group of terrible people sitting in Damascus," Peres said, was mobilizing "the whole world against the Palestinians," who he said were the real victims of the kidnapping.

Peres said Israel believes that Shalit, who holds dual Israeli-French citizenship, is "alive and healthy."
Another teenager reported missing

In another development, the Popular Resistance Committees, one of the Palestinian militant groups that says it is holding Shalit, said it also was holding an Israeli settler in the West Bank.

Israeli police said a family in the settlement of Itamar near Nablus had filed a missing persons report. The missing settler was identified as Eliyahu Asheri, 18.

He was last seen Sunday night at the French Hill hitchhiking post in Jerusalem, on the road leading north to the West Bank. His parents reported him missing at noon Monday.
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Old 06-27-06, 07:00 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mopower
It has begun..

Sounds like something out of a George Lucas script.
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Old 06-27-06, 07:10 PM   #9
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I knew someone would throw the Iraq war into this somehow.

Somehow? Why not. Why should the US tell others to be "diplomatic". Maybe take a look at your own pot and see what color it is?

I wasn't aware that Israel's relationship with Gaza was the same as the US with Iraq. Who knew?

Just about everybody knows. Well, except for the diminishing We're Right You're Wrong Iraq War supporters.

How can you NOT see the hypocrisy? If you add up the comparisons, Israel has more justification to invade Gaza or involve itself in a full-out conflict than the US did with Iraq. It's not like the US has been fighting Iraq for decades in a war of attrition.

If a group of terrorists kidnapped a soldier of ours, dontcha thinky maybe we should go try and find the kidnapped person? Oh wait.

WE DID!!! --

To tell Israel how to fight their own war is insulting. That's like France telling us how to fight Al Qaeda. NOYFB.
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Old 06-27-06, 08:00 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DVD Polizei

If a group of terrorists kidnapped a soldier of ours, dontcha thinky maybe we should go try and find the kidnapped person? Oh wait.

WE DID!!! --

To tell Israel how to fight their own war is insulting. That's like France telling us how to fight Al Qaeda. NOYFB.
I gotta agree with that. It's enough of a sham when Europe chimes in with its criticism of every Israeli move, but when the US joins in, sheeesh...

The US, and every country in Europe, would do exactly what Israel is doing if they were in that situation---in fact they'd probably be much more brutal, if history is any indication...
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Old 06-27-06, 08:00 PM   #11
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CNN reporting that Israeli troops have entered Gaza. Whoa boy.
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Old 06-27-06, 10:13 PM   #12
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At least they targetted a soldier and not civilians.

Seriously, I find it a bit odd that kidnapping a soldier might trigger a harsher response than blowing up civilians.
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Old 06-27-06, 10:33 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eXcentris
At least they targetted a soldier and not civilians.

Seriously, I find it a bit odd that kidnapping a soldier might trigger a harsher response than blowing up civilians.
I'm sure Hamas will learn its lesson after this and go back to targeting people who can't fight back.
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Old 06-27-06, 10:56 PM   #14
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I wonder if Hamas will actually fight back or whine and scream and stomp up and down to the UN, proclaiming how Israel is once again picking on theor innocent group.
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Old 06-27-06, 11:29 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DVD Polizei
I wonder if Hamas will actually fight back or whine and scream and stomp up and down to the UN, proclaiming how Israel is once again picking on theor innocent group.
I was wondering the same thing. Judging on their posturing earlier today claiming they have no idea who this group was, where the hostage is, etc.. I'm guessing the later.
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Old 06-27-06, 11:54 PM   #16
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And I was just thinking what you did. Sorta. This "new group". I would not be surprised if Hamas members just made it up and put it out to the media. Instant washing of the hands.

Hamas: "We're clean. We had nothing to do with this. "
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Old 06-28-06, 02:21 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DVD Polizei
I knew someone would throw the Iraq war into this somehow.

Somehow? Why not. Why should the US tell others to be "diplomatic". Maybe take a look at your own pot and see what color it is?

I wasn't aware that Israel's relationship with Gaza was the same as the US with Iraq. Who knew?

Just about everybody knows. Well, except for the diminishing We're Right You're Wrong Iraq War supporters.

How can you NOT see the hypocrisy? If you add up the comparisons, Israel has more justification to invade Gaza or involve itself in a full-out conflict than the US did with Iraq. It's not like the US has been fighting Iraq for decades in a war of attrition.

If a group of terrorists kidnapped a soldier of ours, dontcha thinky maybe we should go try and find the kidnapped person? Oh wait.

WE DID!!! --

To tell Israel how to fight their own war is insulting. That's like France telling us how to fight Al Qaeda. NOYFB.
So we invaded Iraq to look for two soldiers?

You really don't see the difference between the US using it's established military presence in an pre-existing war zone to search for kidnapped soldiers and invading an allegedly sovereign area and starting a new open conflict to do so?

I'm not saying Israel is in the wrong here, or that the US wouldn't have the same response, but it's a real stretch to compare the two situations politically.
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Old 06-28-06, 06:22 AM   #18
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Well, you can break it down micropolitically and say, "Hey, these aren't the same" and come up with your own formula. It's still insulting for Israel to have Condi tell them: "Give diplomacy a chance."

And wasn't Iraq a sovereign nation before we invaded it? Didn't we start a new open conflict? Did Iraq directly attack the US like Hamas directly attacks Israel on a daily basis? Who has more justification?
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Old 06-28-06, 07:21 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eXcentris
At least they targetted a soldier and not civilians.

Seriously, I find it a bit odd that kidnapping a soldier might trigger a harsher response than blowing up civilians.
There are conflicting reports that they also kidnapped a settlor. Militants never take the moral high ground apparently. Sorry.
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Old 06-28-06, 09:16 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadlyDrawnBoy
Sounds like something out of a George Lucas script.
George Lucas wrote Mortal Combat?
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Old 06-28-06, 10:43 AM   #21
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the Omega Code has begun....
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Old 06-28-06, 12:48 PM   #22
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Home Fly-By Sends Message to Syrian Leader
June 28th, 2006 @ 11:09am
By JOSEF FEDERMAN
Associated Press Writer


JERUSALEM (AP) - Israeli warplanes flew over the home of Syrian President Bashar Assad, officials said Wednesday, in a message aimed at pressuring him to win the release of a captured Israeli soldier.

The officials said four warplanes flew over a residence belonging to Assad in the Mediterranean port city of Latakia in northwestern Syria. Israeli television reports said Assad was home at the time.

The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak to the press.

http://www.620ktar.com/?nid=46&sid=191566
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Old 06-28-06, 01:25 PM   #23
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You took it, and broke a major rule of engagement.

Then you broke another one with that circus stunt fly-by.
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Old 06-28-06, 02:15 PM   #24
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[quote=Thor Simpson
Then you broke another one with that circus stunt fly-by.[/QUOTE]

I like it. It's a nice reminder by the IDF to Assad that they can get him.
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Old 06-28-06, 03:07 PM   #25
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Syria must have one hell of an air force to let Israeli planes fly over their Prez's house.
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