Release List Reviews Shop Join News DVD Giveaways Video Games Advertise
DVD Reviews | Theatrical Reviews | Price Search Buy Stuff Here
DVD Talk
DVD Reviews DVD Talk Headlines HD Reviews


Add to My Yahoo! - RSS 2.0 - RSS 2.0 - DVD Talk Podcast RSS -


Go Back   DVD Talk Forum > General Discussions > Other Talk > Religion, Politics and World Events

Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-19-06, 02:39 PM   #1
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Democratik People's Republik of Kalifornia
Posts: 22,995
The Voter ID Thread

Let's hope this law stay in place. How will the dead get to vote now?

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...434/1001/rss01

For a 126-page legal document, U.S. District Judge Sarah Evans Barker's recent ruling to uphold Indiana's new voter ID law is downright entertaining.


The ruling has it all -- outrage, humor, put-downs.
Unfortunately for Indiana Democratic Party officials, most of it is aimed at them. The Democrats and their fellow plaintiffs didn't just lose their lawsuit challenging the voter ID law. They took a legal spanking.
The spanking begins on Page 2, where Barker points out that the lawsuit "is the result of a partisan legislative dispute," but that Democrats "failed to adapt their arguments to the legal arena."
She says their arguments are based "on little more than their own personal and political preferences."
It gets better. Deeper in the ruling, Barker mocks Democrats for their "apocalyptic assertions of wholesale voter disenfranchisement." She scolds the party for making such allegations while not producing "a single piece of evidence of any identifiable registered voter who would be prevented from voting."
"In contrast to any reliable, specific evidence," Barker wrote, "plaintiffs assert that they know of people, or know of people who know of people, who claim they will not be able to vote."
For the record, that sentence as much as any other in the ruling makes clear the disdain Barker has for the lawsuit.
Even so, Barker continues, criticizing Democrats and the other plaintiffs for sins such as "dramatic overstatement," "sweeping political arguments" and a "feeble effort."
My favorite part of the ruling comes on Page 96, where Barker compares the Democrats' argument to a "wet Kleenex prank," in which "a soggy wet tissue mass is thrown against the dorm wall to see if it will stick."
I'm not a legal scholar, but I'm pretty sure a judge has never before called a lawsuit a "a soggy wet tissue mass."
Barker, though, seemed most bothered by the suggestion by Democrats that nearly a million registered voters could lack the type of ID the new law requires, such as a driver's license.
She calls the claim "utterly incredible" and said she lacked "the time and space to discuss the numerous flaws" in it. If you accept the math, she writes sarcastically, the combined number of voters with and without licenses "represents an incredible 123 percent of Indiana's entire voting-age population."
Barker, who was appointed to the bench by Republican President Ronald Reagan in 1984, smacked Democrats for "this bonanza of hitherto unaccounted- for individuals." With all those people, she said, finding one who would be hurt by the law should have been easy.
Democrats, not surprisingly, are fighting back. National Chairman Howard Dean says Barker's ruling will hurt many potential voters.
"She will go down in history as one of the largest disenfranchisers in our state's history," state party Chairman Dan Parker said.
Is Barker a disenfranchiser? I don't know. But she sure can write an entertaining legal opinion.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-06, 02:43 PM   #2
bhk
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Right of Atilla The Hun
Posts: 19,749
Quote:
If you accept the math, she writes sarcastically, the combined number of voters with and without licenses "represents an incredible 123 percent of Indiana's entire voting-age population."
Incidently, that would be the exact percent turnout in some counties.
__________________
"We are not fighting so that you will offer us something. We are fighting to eliminate you."

Hussein Massawi, the former leader of Hezbollah
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-06, 03:04 PM   #3
Moderator
 
nemein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: 1bit away from total disaster
Posts: 34,082
Mod note: Before anyone RTP the title of the thread is the title of the article that is being quoted. Now if we want to get into a discussion about whether or not certain sources should be used and how their titles/rhetoric fits into the "rules" that's fine. Please start a new thread though, or take it to the "ite" thread and see if we can get that back on track

thx
__________________
"The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." -- Norman Thomas

"When you look really deep, we are all kind of shallow" -- unknown

My Countdown Counting down to: End of the countdown clock
1284 days 14 hours 27 minutes
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-06, 03:51 PM   #4
DVD Talk Ruler
 
General Zod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Where it all happens - SoCal
Posts: 19,950
I didn't see anything other than a legal thrashing that the democrats got for doing this, so why not go for it again next election if things don't go well? Seems like if they try it - lots of people believe them and they get yelled at when it turns out not to be true. So what? Just go for it again next time.. My guess is the people that believed it before will believe it again.
__________________
"Kneel Before Zod"
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-06, 03:59 PM   #5
Moderator
 
wendersfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Nuova Repubblica di SalÚ
Posts: 31,728
As a registered Democrat for the past quarter century, my initial reaction is:



The idea that forcing people to have photo ID in order to vote being unfair, racist, whatever, is just absurd. All it does is perpetuate negative stereotypes about the party, and the people who vote for its candidates.

A BIG to the Democrats, and to Howard Dean.
__________________
"Fifth Element may be as dumb and artless as Johnny Mnemonic, but since a frenchman made it it must be ART!" -Pants
"...I think it's a low blow to draw attention to wendersfan's drunken state. " - dork
"Just because their victims are still alive doesn't mean they didn't commit murder." - grundle
"You concentrate on the sad wanna be hooliganism and let us worry about the actual soccer." - rocketsauce (final score: Columbus 2-Chicago 1)
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-06, 04:02 PM   #6
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 36,980
there is a similar law and i assume law suit in ga
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-06, 04:08 PM   #7
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Shoveler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA, USA
Posts: 4,579
Quote:
Originally Posted by wendersfan
As a registered Democrat for the past quarter century, my initial reaction is:



The idea that forcing people to have photo ID in order to vote being unfair, racist, whatever, is just absurd. All it does is perpetuate negative stereotypes about the party, and the people who vote for its candidates.

A BIG to the Democrats, and to Howard Dean.
Agreed! This one is so funny on its own, I don't even have to twist the truth!
__________________
A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul. -- George Bernard Shaw

In the end I was pretty pleased with my performance. -- Mabuse
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-06, 07:21 PM   #8
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Bartertown due to it having a better economy than where I really live, Buffalo NY
Posts: 29,658
Quote:
Originally Posted by wendersfan
As a registered Democrat for the past quarter century, my initial reaction is:



The idea that forcing people to have photo ID in order to vote being unfair, racist, whatever, is just absurd. All it does is perpetuate negative stereotypes about the party, and the people who vote for its candidates.

A BIG to the Democrats, and to Howard Dean.
ditto
except for the registered democrat part
I've never understood why photo id isn't required to vote whe it's required for so many other things and really isn't hard or expensive to get
__________________
USS Ben Sisko's Mother F***ing Pimp Hand - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgIOdcBkkzg
Vote for freedom not political parties. .... MOΛΩN ΛABE
If they had a philosophy. If they weren't too busy gnawing on your insides.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-06, 07:44 PM   #9
DVD Talk Hero
 
JasonF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 37,707
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikehunt
I've never understood why photo id isn't required to vote whe it's required for so many other things and really isn't hard or expensive to get
The argument (and I'm not saying I buy it) is that everyone has the right to vote, no strings attached. There are people who are so poor that the $10 fee for getting an ID is a genuine burden, or for whatever reason don't have an ID. These people are just as entitled to vote as any other citizen over the age of 18.
__________________
These are my DVDs
360 GamerTag: William T Bunny
PSN ID: William_T_Bunny
"JasonF can do no wrong!" -- Rockmjd23
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-06, 08:06 PM   #10
Retired
 
Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 27,449
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonF
The argument (and I'm not saying I buy it) is that everyone has the right to vote, no strings attached. There are people who are so poor that the $10 fee for getting an ID is a genuine burden, or for whatever reason don't have an ID. These people are just as entitled to vote as any other citizen over the age of 18.
It is definitely an issue. I think they should make the photo ids free for anyone that doesn't have a driver's license and is on any kind of state assistance. In fact, FORCE them to come in and get their photo ID made to keep getting assistance to make sure they will have the idea they need to vote and will have no strings attached for them to cast their vote.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-06, 08:18 PM   #11
DVD Talk Legend
 
nevermind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Illinoyze
Posts: 10,514
I'd go for that . Of course, some would say it's impossible for them to get to the DMV.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-06, 10:31 PM   #12
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Malvern, PA
Posts: 5,013
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevermind
I'd go for that . Of course, some would say it's impossible for them to get to the DMV.
Then it should be impossible to get to the voting booth.
__________________
cpgator: You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you?
crm114: I guess not.


Movies by the MINUTE
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-06, 11:08 PM   #13
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Capitol of the Empire! Center of all Commerce and Culture! Crossroads of Civilization! NEW ROME!!!...aka New York City
Posts: 10,909
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevermind
I'd go for that . Of course, some would say it's impossible for them to get to the DMV.
WHAT?!?! They are tied to thier front stoop by poverty!
__________________
Tommy Ceez may or may not be a moron, but he's OUR possible moron - El Scorcho
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-06, 07:18 AM   #14
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 36,980
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonF
The argument (and I'm not saying I buy it) is that everyone has the right to vote, no strings attached. There are people who are so poor that the $10 fee for getting an ID is a genuine burden, or for whatever reason don't have an ID. These people are just as entitled to vote as any other citizen over the age of 18.
in GA the ids would be free
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-06, 11:09 AM   #15
Moderator
 
wendersfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Nuova Repubblica di SalÚ
Posts: 31,728
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikehunt
except for the registered democrat part
I like to point that out because it continues to astonish/disgust some people.
__________________
"Fifth Element may be as dumb and artless as Johnny Mnemonic, but since a frenchman made it it must be ART!" -Pants
"...I think it's a low blow to draw attention to wendersfan's drunken state. " - dork
"Just because their victims are still alive doesn't mean they didn't commit murder." - grundle
"You concentrate on the sad wanna be hooliganism and let us worry about the actual soccer." - rocketsauce (final score: Columbus 2-Chicago 1)
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-06, 11:12 AM   #16
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Pleasantville - in black & white ;P
Posts: 5,970
Meh... I think of you as a libertarian-Democrat wendersfan. I can handle that.
__________________
"Americans are so enamored of equality, they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom." Alexis de Tocqueville (1805-1859) French historian.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-06, 11:22 AM   #17
Retired
 
Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 27,449
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevermind
Of course, some would say it's impossible for them to get to the DMV.
If they can't hop on the bus, or get someone to drive them in, tough. Only so many concessions we can make for them.

I'm sure they could do the regular, free ids at other locations as well. Give them more options and keep the lines at the DMV from getting even longer.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-06, 04:11 PM   #18
DVD Talk God
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Directionally Challenged (for DirecTV)
Posts: 119,874
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonF
The argument (and I'm not saying I buy it) is that everyone has the right to vote, no strings attached. There are people who are so poor that the $10 fee for getting an ID is a genuine burden, or for whatever reason don't have an ID. These people are just as entitled to vote as any other citizen over the age of 18.

Sorry. I don't see $10 for an ID that last 5 years ($2 per year) as a genuine burden nor poll tax (since it can serve a use beyond voting). It is not like the government is charging $10 to make a profit. Besides if they are that poor and presumably on welfare, surely they have to be already using some form of identification to claim their welfare check. Right?
__________________
"A question for you. Would you rather Bucknell make the NCAA's once every 20 years or so and get ass raped by teams like Kansas in the first round or have them drop down a rung to a confernce where they can compete for a title?"
- Josh Hinkle
1st Round Final Scores: Bucknell 64 Kansas 63 | Bucknell 59 Arkansas 55

Last edited by Red Dog; 04-20-06 at 04:17 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-06, 05:45 PM   #19
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Bartertown due to it having a better economy than where I really live, Buffalo NY
Posts: 29,658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldblum
Then it should be impossible to get to the voting booth.
the democrats bus them in
__________________
USS Ben Sisko's Mother F***ing Pimp Hand - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgIOdcBkkzg
Vote for freedom not political parties. .... MOΛΩN ΛABE
If they had a philosophy. If they weren't too busy gnawing on your insides.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-06, 05:47 PM   #20
Retired
 
Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 27,449
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikehunt
the democrats bus them in
Not to mention if you're in a city you're polling place is almost always with in walking distance.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-06, 05:48 PM   #21
DVD Talk God
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Directionally Challenged (for DirecTV)
Posts: 119,874
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Hinkle
Not to mention if you're in a city you're polling place is almost always with in walking distance.

Mine is 4 blocks away - in a church no less.
__________________
"A question for you. Would you rather Bucknell make the NCAA's once every 20 years or so and get ass raped by teams like Kansas in the first round or have them drop down a rung to a confernce where they can compete for a title?"
- Josh Hinkle
1st Round Final Scores: Bucknell 64 Kansas 63 | Bucknell 59 Arkansas 55
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-06, 02:09 PM   #22
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 12,146
The only reason to oppose a requirement for free voter ID is because of fraud.

And the only reason to oppose paper evidence of voting is because of fraud.

It's just the first is opposed by Democrats, and the second is opposed by Republicans.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-06, 02:13 PM   #23
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Pleasantville - in black & white ;P
Posts: 5,970
Paper "evidence" does not stop fraud, it's simply convenient for "recounts" when your party loses.
__________________
"Americans are so enamored of equality, they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom." Alexis de Tocqueville (1805-1859) French historian.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-06, 02:15 PM   #24
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 36,980
i dont get the point of a paper trail? can't it be manipulated almost as easily as a data trail? it seems like a waste to me
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-06, 02:16 PM   #25
Admin-Self Banned
 
VinVega's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Between the moon and NYC
Posts: 27,997
Quote:
Originally Posted by grundle
The only reason to oppose a requirement for free voter ID is because of fraud.

And the only reason to oppose paper evidence of voting is because of fraud.

It's just the first is opposed by Democrats, and the second is opposed by Republicans.
__________________
"Redistricting has made a tiny slice of ideological activists the power brokers in who gets sent to Congress."

www.endgerrymandering.com
Gerrymandering in the US
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:31 PM.


Copyright 2011 DVDTalk.com All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0