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Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

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Old 08-11-17, 08:02 PM   #951
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Re: The Voter ID Thread

Mod note: this thread is about voter id laws, not about private companies that may require photo id. Any questions, please raise them in feedback forum.
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Old 08-13-17, 04:58 AM   #952
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Re: The Voter ID Thread

This is not a question but an opinion.

If the objections to voter IDs is that they are not necessary, it seems entirely pertinent to the debate to point out numerous other societal examples in which photo ID is required due to concerns about people portraying themselves as someone other than their actual identify. In cases of fraud/forgery, etc., I believe the legal terms are "criminal impersonation" or "criminal simulation" (or something along these lines). The point seems to be that there's not a huge outcry in those cases; indeed, most accept the measures as logical and reasonable.

If the distinction is "private vs. public," aren't people required to present valid IDs when applying for government assistance of any type (including SSI)? I know that I had to provide quite a bit of information when signing up for Social Security benefits to begin.

When critics cite statistics about how few violations have been found, I agree that there's not generally sufficient motivation for voter fraud (as opposed to theft). And it's hard enough just to motivate people to get out and vote when there are no obstacles. Still, how does one know how many offenses actually occur if the monitoring is so lax? I would theorized that if retail stores reduced their security measures (cameras, security staff, security, merchandise security tags that set off alarms, etc.), there would be far less thieves caught. They do have the advantage of being able to check inventory vs. sales, which voting commissions don't have. The only real tip-offs are things such as abnormally high voting turnout or unusual demographic shifts in voting patterns.
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Old 08-13-17, 05:49 PM   #953
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Re: The Voter ID Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
This is not a question but an opinion.

If the objections to voter IDs is that they are not necessary, it seems entirely pertinent to the debate to point out numerous other societal examples in which photo ID is required due to concerns about people portraying themselves as someone other than their actual identify. In cases of fraud/forgery, etc., I believe the legal terms are "criminal impersonation" or "criminal simulation" (or something along these lines). The point seems to be that there's not a huge outcry in those cases; indeed, most accept the measures as logical and reasonable.

If the distinction is "private vs. public," aren't people required to present valid IDs when applying for government assistance of any type (including SSI)? I know that I had to provide quite a bit of information when signing up for Social Security benefits to begin.

When critics cite statistics about how few violations have been found, I agree that there's not generally sufficient motivation for voter fraud (as opposed to theft). And it's hard enough just to motivate people to get out and vote when there are no obstacles. Still, how does one know how many offenses actually occur if the monitoring is so lax? I would theorized that if retail stores reduced their security measures (cameras, security staff, security, merchandise security tags that set off alarms, etc.), there would be far less thieves caught. They do have the advantage of being able to check inventory vs. sales, which voting commissions don't have. The only real tip-offs are things such as abnormally high voting turnout or unusual demographic shifts in voting patterns.
For your Social Security example, you only need to present ID once and then never again. That is very different than voting, which is at least yearly. All they need to do to prevent in person voter fraud, the kind you are discussing, is mark people with a 24 hour "ink" after they vote. So long as the mark can't be removed and the vote administrators check for a prior mark, it is a fool proof system and requires no one to obtain something they don't already have.
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Old 08-13-17, 07:12 PM   #954
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Re: The Voter ID Thread

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For your Social Security example, you only need to present ID once and then never again. That is very different than voting, which is at least yearly. All they need to do to prevent in person voter fraud, the kind you are discussing, is mark people with a 24 hour "ink" after they vote. So long as the mark can't be removed and the vote administrators check for a prior mark, it is a fool proof system and requires no one to obtain something they don't already have.
That's a good idea. It works in other countries that have used it.

Wouldn't help with absentee ballots but neither would photo ID.
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Old 08-13-17, 08:25 PM   #955
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Re: The Voter ID Thread

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That's a good idea. It works in other countries that have used it.

Wouldn't help with absentee ballots but neither would photo ID.
Glad we agree and yes, it has indeed been used in many other countries. Specifically those were ID is not as common. So, can we rid ourselves of this "voter ID laws prevent voter fraud" idea? Those laws are only there to prevent people from voting, targeting the poor that don't always have IDs.
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Old 08-13-17, 09:45 PM   #956
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Re: The Voter ID Thread

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Originally Posted by JasonX View Post
All they need to do to prevent in person voter fraud, the kind you are discussing, is mark people with a 24 hour "ink" after they vote. So long as the mark can't be removed and the vote administrators check for a prior mark, it is a fool proof system and requires no one to obtain something they don't already have.
How do you deal with underage voters?
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Old 08-14-17, 01:08 AM   #957
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Re: The Voter ID Thread

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How do you deal with underage voters?
You mean registering to vote? That is really a separate issue. The "easy" way would be to use the SSA database and confirm that the last name, DOB, and last four of SSN match when registering. Everyone has an SSN, so it shouldn't create an access issue and would have no cost. I guess you could claim that an underage individual could ascertain someone else's information to get into the system, but the number of teens who would be willing and want to do that, has to be completely insignificant.

Realistically, I think getting teens to want to vote can be a battle. I just don't see all that many even wanting to do so early.
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Old 08-14-17, 05:53 AM   #958
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Re: The Voter ID Thread

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How do you deal with underage voters?
If they're old enough to care let them vote. I can't imagine it being many.
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