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Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

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Old 02-23-06, 09:10 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classicman2
I assume homsexual parents are always kind, gentle, loving, never harsh, etc.to their children.
All the ones I know are. Admittedly, it's a small sample size, largely due to the positively prehistoric laws in this country concerning homosexual behavior.
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Old 02-23-06, 09:17 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger

However, my opinion is that the adoption process needs much reforming and streamlining, therefore permitting gays to adopt - while they cannot legally marry - should not be a high priority because family law is messed up and complicated enough already. I do think it is important to establish the legal flexibility in terms of recognizing equal rights, but that will take time.
Well, it must be clarified that gays can legally adopt in most states- this is about restricting that. Of course I'm biased on this issue, but I can't think of any compelling reason why gays should be restricted from adopting.

People like to say that a heterosexual monogamous married couple is the best environment in which to raise a child, and I'll concede the point- it may be true, it may not be. However, with the surplus of children not in stable permanent homes, I can't understand why we would want to turn any qualified person away from adopting.

This is knee-jerk reactionism at its best.
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Old 02-23-06, 09:23 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhk
Coming this July, a vote on the anti gay-marriage amendment in the Senate. Read that Frist will try to bring a vote on it.
Good political move.
Perhaps a good ultra-conservative political move for stone-faced Frist but a sad social commentary on America.

Last edited by LiquidSky; 02-23-06 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 02-23-06, 09:39 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by bhk
Exactly, because it's always one or the other, nothing else.
Apparently it is for supporters of this ban.
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Old 02-23-06, 09:42 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by LiquidSky
Perhaps a good ultra-conservative political move for stone-faced Frist but a sad social commentary on America.
How in the hell did you get an avatar, while I, the great and mystical kvrdave, are still without one?

I mean, good for you, but anyway.
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Old 02-23-06, 11:14 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by kvrdave
How in the hell did you get an avatar, while I, the great and mystical kvrdave, are still without one?

I mean, good for you, but anyway.
I bought Geoff a six pack.
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Old 02-23-06, 11:21 AM   #32
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Now I feel ashamed of what I did, and still never got one.
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Old 02-23-06, 11:38 AM   #33
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Are you two planning to adopt?
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Old 02-23-06, 04:51 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidSky
Perhaps a good ultra-conservative political move for stone-faced Frist but a sad social commentary on America.


I might also say Frist is being cynical, opportunistic and pandering... if I didn't know he is noble and above all that.

[cough]Terri Schiavo "diagnosis"[/cough]
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Old 02-23-06, 05:12 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Vandelay_Inds
Do we have studies that compare the ratio of children brought up by same-sex couples that grow up to be gay and the percentage of the population that is gay?
I don't have any off hand, but it seems like we have in the past, and they were roughly the same.
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Old 02-23-06, 05:28 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by TracerBullet
Well, it must be clarified that gays can legally adopt in most states- this is about restricting that. Of course I'm biased on this issue, but I can't think of any compelling reason why gays should be restricted from adopting.
I wasn't aware that gays already could legally adopt. I thought the current universal requirement was being a married couple.

So with that in mind, Gay adoption bans and its enforcement certainly would make the family law stuff even more complicated.
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Old 02-23-06, 05:34 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Ranger
So with that in mind, Gay adoption bans and its enforcement certainly would make the family law stuff even more complicated.
I don't think it's that complicated now. Family law basically comes down to: if you have a pussy, you get the children and all the money.
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Old 02-23-06, 07:44 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Vandelay_Inds
If so, it would be a very powerful argument for the gay-adoption advocates. I wonder why they don't bring it up more often then...?
Because 99% of the people who would be in favor of such a ban would never be swayed by something as silly as "logic" and "the truth".
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Old 02-24-06, 08:55 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Ranger
I wasn't aware that gays already could legally adopt. I thought the current universal requirement was being a married couple.
Single people adopt all the time. The only state that I can think of that prohibits gay people from adopting is Florida.
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Old 02-24-06, 09:43 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamblast
Absolutely no one is "going to bat" for us in this fucking culture war.
We need to cosponsor this bill, from Ohio senator Hagan:
Quote:
Ohio State Sen. Robert Hagan sent out e-mails to fellow lawmakers late Wednesday night, stating that he intends to "introduce legislation in the near future that would ban households with one or more Republican voters from adopting children or acting as foster parents."
The e-mail ended with a request for co-sponsorship.

Hagan said his legislation was written in response to a bill introduced in the Ohio House this month by state Rep. Ron Hood, R-Ashville, that is aimed at prohibiting gay adoption.

To further lampoon Hood's bill, Hagan wrote in his mock proposal that "credible research" shows that adopted children raised in Republican households are more at risk for developing "emotional problems, social stigmas, inflated egos, and alarming lack of tolerance for others they deem different than themselves and an air of overconfidence to mask their insecurities."
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Old 02-24-06, 09:50 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by WildcatLH
Because 99% of the people who would be in favor of such a ban would never be swayed by something as silly as "logic" and "the truth".
So if someone doesn't agree with you, they must be ignorant? Maybe some of that 99% aren't worry about the kids turning gay, but are instead support the ban for other reasons? Perhaps you can't understand that truth? I personally believe that most situations, the child would benefit the most if adopted by a husband and wife. Mostly because this would supply a more rounded environment for the child. Children get different things from the mother and the father. Plus I would be concerned about the social factors that a child would have to experience if they had gay parents.

I don't necessarily support a ban on gays adopting, but certainly feel that married couple (man & woman) should get first priority.
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Old 02-24-06, 12:03 PM   #42
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Perhaps the people who support this ban should be required to adopt at least two children.
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Old 02-24-06, 12:23 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidSky
Perhaps the people who support this ban should be required to adopt at least two children.
Make bigots accountable for their narrow-minded beliefs? Never!
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Old 02-24-06, 12:30 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by cpgator
So if someone doesn't agree with you, they must be ignorant? Maybe some of that 99% aren't worry about the kids turning gay, but are instead support the ban for other reasons? Perhaps you can't understand that truth? I personally believe that most situations, the child would benefit the most if adopted by a husband and wife. Mostly because this would supply a more rounded environment for the child. Children get different things from the mother and the father. Plus I would be concerned about the social factors that a child would have to experience if they had gay parents.

I don't necessarily support a ban on gays adopting, but certainly feel that married couple (man & woman) should get first priority.
And children would get "different things" from gay parents as well. What makes you so sure it's better with a man and a woman?

From my limited experience with children (2 year old and 2 month old), kids need to be loved more than anything. They need to be taken care of, they need people to show interest in what they are doing, what they are feeling and talk to them when they have problems.

Sure, they might get something from each straight parent, but I don't think they get LESS with gay parents. I've never thought sexual orientation had much bearing on whether or not you'd be a good parent. In fact, I'd argue that it has no bearing on it.

I know straight people who should never have kids. I know gay people who shouldn't either. But I believe that good parents are good parents, regardless of sexual orientation.
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Old 02-24-06, 12:45 PM   #45
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I wonder if the gay couples who adopt try to raise their adopted child gay?
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Old 02-24-06, 12:48 PM   #46
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Old 02-24-06, 12:51 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by tbird2340
I wonder if the gay couples who adopt try to raise their adopted child gay?
How exactly would one do that? Show them gay porn instead of Sesame Street?

The vast majority of gay people in the world were raised by straight parents. I know I was, unless there's something my folks aren't telling me.

I have to wonder why people are so afraid of children who mature into homosexuals. Even if there were a higher incidence of homosexuality in children who were raised by gay parents, so the fuck what?
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Old 02-24-06, 12:58 PM   #48
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How exactly would one do that?? Are you serious?! Say you adopt a 2 month old kid who knows absolutely nothing.. As he /she grows up he / she sees a man living with a man (or woman living with a woman).. He / she grows up to think that's the way it's supposed to be..

Dunno.. Just seems like the chances of them being gay would be a lot more likely.. And personally, as a non gay man, "so the fu&$ what" doesn't really cut it with me..
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Old 02-24-06, 01:03 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by tbird2340
How exactly would one do that?? Are you serious?! Say you adopt a 2 month old kid who knows absolutely nothing.. As he /she grows up he / she sees a man living with a man (or woman living with a woman).. He / she grows up to think that's the way it's supposed to be..

Dunno.. Just seems like the chances of them being gay would be a lot more likely..
Yeah, I am serious. No one is "made" gay. No one is "made" straight.

All the gay people you've ever heard of grew up in an incredibly heterosexual world, and probably had straight parents as well. So how'd they "become" gay?

The illogic of this astounds me.

Quote:
And personally, as a non gay man, "so the fu&$ what" doesn't really cut it with me..
So your views on this matter are colored by your belief that homosexuality is something to be avoided, right? I like to keep these things straight.
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Old 02-24-06, 01:05 PM   #50
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I like to keep these things straight.
Apparently, so would tbird.
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