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Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

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Old 01-09-06, 06:32 PM   #1
nevermind
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Church destroyed by fire - state to give $1 million to rebuild

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?sec...cal&id=3791788
Quote:
Historic Pilgrim Baptist Church destroyed in fire
Congregation holds first service after fire

January 8, 2006 (Chicago) - Two days after a fire destroyed their landmark South Side church building and the birthplace of gospel music, about 200 members of Pilgrim Baptist Church worshipped and sang together at a temporary site Sunday. The exact cause of the fire has not been determined.

To cheers from the congregation, Alfonso Carrington, chairman of the church's deacon's board, pledged Pilgrim Baptist would rise again.

"The Lord built man from the dirt," Carrington said from the pulpit in the auditorium of Rainbow PUSH Coalition's headquarters. "What better way to rebuild than from the dirt up? He did it in seven days. I can't promise you we'll do it in seven days, but we will rebuild."

Carrington thanked the Rev. Jesse Jackson for use of the Coalition's auditorium a few miles away from the Pilgrim site for Sunday's service. He said the congregation would meet next Sunday in their community center, located across the street from where their 115-year-old church once stood in the city's historic Bronzeville neighborhood.

Firefighters continued to investigate the cause of the fire Sunday, said Chicago Fire Department spokesman Josh Dennis. Four firefighters received minor injuries fighting the blaze that was so intense it could be seen from miles away.
A children's gospel choir sang during Sunday's service, continuing a tradition that started in the 1930s under the church's longtime music director Thomas A. Dorsey, considered the father of gospel music.

Designed as a synagogue between 1890 and 1891 by Louis Sullivan and Dankmar Adler, the church housed the Pilgrim congregation since 1922. It was designated a Chicago landmark in 1981.

Offers of financial help have come in from across the nation, church leaders said Sunday.
The church plans to set up an account for donations at Amalgamated Bank of Chicago, Carrington said. The church is insured, but it's unclear how much the church can expect to claim.


"We're going to deal with this," said longtime member Barbara Gonzalez as she greeted other worshippers.

Church with tremendous history

The landmark building that is home to Pilgrim Baptist Church was originally a synagogue. It was built like Mount Ararat, the place where Noah was said to have landed when the flood was over.

As the current congregation moved in to the church, it helped shape and develop gospel music in the 1930's, which gave the South Side house of worship a nationwide reputation.

The history of the Pilgrim Baptist Church began in 1915 when it was organized as a prayer group. The actual building at 3301 S. Indiana was built between 1890 and 1891, but the Pilgrim Baptist congregation didn't move in until1920.

The church and congregation are long-credited with being the birthplace of gospel music. Aretha Franklin's father once taught aspiring gospel singers at the church.

One of the choir's oldest members is Mary Lewis. She turned 107 last year.

The church was designed by renowned architects Louis Sullivan and Dankmar Adler. The building was designated a Chicago landmark in 1981. It has been slowly coming apart at the seams and needed nearly $3 million in repairs.

Rev. Hycel Taylor was the most recent minister at the church before his departure. Thomas Dorsey was the choir director for the church during the years that gospel music was being developed when other churches around the country thought his music was too secular. Perhaps the most famous song written at the church was "Precious Lord."

Chicagoan Mahalia Jackson and James Cleveland were regulars who visited the church and sang with the choirs.
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?sec...cal&id=3796391

Quote:

Blowtorch blamed for historic church fire

State expected to give $1M to rebuild

By John Garcia

January 9, 2006 - Investigators say a torch used by a crew doing repair on the roof started the fire. Flames destroyed the 115-year-old building on Friday. Fire officials say the cause of the fire was accidental.

That word comes as hundreds of local church members and community leaders hold the first fundraiser for the congregation. There is next to nothing left of Pilgrim Baptist Church at 33rd and Indiana. The heat and flames destroyed the sanctuary and damaged other buildings nearby.

A number of African-American church leaders got together Monday to talk about how to raise money to help rebuild the church, and that effort will get a huge boost from the state. The governor is expected to announce the state will contribute $1 million toward the effort to try to rebuild.
Chicago police continue to stand guard over what remains of Pilgrim Baptist. Very little of one of the city's most storied churches is left, which, according to one historian, is a tragedy.

"It was an organizing center. People coming straight from the South sometimes were guided by their friends, 'Go to Pilgrim, they will tell you what it is all about,' " said Timuel Black, historian.

Black watched Mahalia Jackson, Sam Cooke and Thomas Dorsey perform at Pilgrim and listened to speakers like Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

Church leaders are already meeting with architects to work on rebuilding. Some of what was lost was irreplaceable. But leaders hope to salvage much of the original that will structure as possible.

"If the building is there, the imagination is easier to begin to grasp those kinds of images," said Black.

Damage also spread beyond the church. The Loop Lab School was totally destroyed. They are looking for a new location to teach 80 students for the rest of the year.
Latrice Evans' home next door suffered heavy smoke and water damage. Backed up sewer water filled her basement. She estimates $25,000 in damage.

"The stench is still in the house. The smoke is still in the house. The sewage, you know, the bacteria levels. They consider my basement totaled," said Latrice Evans, church neighbor.

The cause of the fire comes as no surprise to church leaders who have been speculating since Friday afternoon that the blowtorch was used on the roof may have caused the fire.
Officials are having an emergency meeting of the board of trustees to talk about the strategy.

The roofers, the Conrad Roofing Company, had no comment about the findings.
Why is the state contributing $1 million to rebuild a private insured building that needed $3 million in repairs to begin with, when private donations are coming in from across the nation?

Last edited by nevermind; 01-09-06 at 06:35 PM.
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Old 01-09-06, 06:40 PM   #2
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This could get interesting
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Old 01-09-06, 06:44 PM   #3
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Wow, if I were in Chicago (or anywhere in Illinois) i'd be writing some letters. This is not supposed to be what your tax money is for, this is what donations are for.

Sounds like this fire worked out rather nicely... and conveniently. Hmmm I say.
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Old 01-09-06, 06:47 PM   #4
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Notice it's a 115-year old building. Many states have "historical" building clauses, which permit states to rebuild the entire structure if necessary. Doesn't matter if it's a church or an Athiest House Of Pain.
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Old 01-09-06, 06:51 PM   #5
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I understand it is (well, was) a 115-year old building, but it is no longer. Historical clauses usually protect a landmark from being torn down to build something else. That place is a complete loss and an entire new building will have to be erected.

And if the historic significance was so important that the state can spend tax dollars to rebuild it, why didn't they require the owners to fix a slowly (to the point of $3 million) deteriorating landmark before it got that out of hand?
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Old 01-09-06, 07:01 PM   #6
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separation of church and state guess it doesn't apply here? Where's the ACLU?
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Old 01-09-06, 07:43 PM   #7
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Yeah, that's ridiculous. It's a waste of tax payer money to spend $1 million to rebuild a church. I don't care if it is historic. It's just a waste of money. Not to mention the seperation of church and state issue. Ridiculous.
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Old 01-09-06, 10:56 PM   #8
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There would be a ginormous uproar if this church was Catholic and the Croatian Sensation was offering up State money to help rebuild it.
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Old 01-09-06, 11:35 PM   #9
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Separation of Church and State has nothing to do with this case.

Think of it this way. The State of IL is only giving money which it collected from religious taxpayers--which I am sure totals much more than $1M annually.

So, for those of you complaining, your money has not been tainted by The Baby Jesus or his Daddy.
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Old 01-10-06, 06:21 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DVD Polizei
Separation of Church and State has nothing to do with this case.
I didn't say separation of church and state had anything to do with it. It was a dilapidated, private (tax-exempt for that matter), insured building, with the fire caused by a roofing company that should be insured as well.

Quote:
Think of it this way. The State of IL is only giving money which it collected from religious taxpayers--which I am sure totals much more than $1M annually.
The church membership had dwindled to a few hundred members. I highly doubt those few hundred members have given the state $1M annually. Why in the hell is public money being spent to help rebuild it, especially given all the circumstances I just mentioned? Completely remove religion from this if you feel the need to, and it's still wrong.

Quote:
So, for those of you complaining, your money has not been tainted by The Baby Jesus or his Daddy.
No, my money has been spent by an asshole governor who has his term coming up, in a way it should not be spent. If my insured house burns down I sure as hell don't expect the state to build me a new house using public funds. The more I think about this the more it pisses me off. But hey, he chipped in $1,000 of his own money .
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Old 01-10-06, 06:51 AM   #11
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I don't see the big deal, but I will ask: what does the Illinois constitution say about seperation of church and state, if anything?
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Old 01-10-06, 07:05 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevermind
I didn't say separation of church and state had anything to do with it. It was a dilapidated, private (tax-exempt for that matter), insured building, with the fire caused by a roofing company that should be insured as well.
this would be my problem with it. the roofing company should cover it as they are probably insured and it was their fault.


how much federal money is going to rebuild churches along the gulf coast?
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Old 01-10-06, 07:31 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevermind
No, my money has been spent by an asshole governor who has his term coming up, in a way it should not be spent. If my insured house burns down I sure as hell don't expect the state to build me a new house using public funds. The more I think about this the more it pisses me off. But hey, he chipped in $1,000 of his own money .

Sorry I don't know, but who is your governor?
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Old 01-10-06, 07:34 AM   #14
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Rod Blagojevich, and hopefully this is his last year.
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Old 01-10-06, 07:45 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by mosquitobite
Sorry I don't know, but who is your governor?
Just another in a long, storied line of shitty governors.
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Old 01-10-06, 07:49 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B.A.
Just another in a long, storied line of shitty governors.
Truer words have never been spoken
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Old 01-10-06, 08:30 AM   #17
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I'm happy with my governor.

He asked the people to pray for rain - last night snow and rain in Oklahoma.
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Old 01-10-06, 08:37 AM   #18
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BTW: He's a Democrat - naturally he would have an 'in' with God.
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Old 01-10-06, 11:50 AM   #19
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Quote:

Church hopes challenge grant will inspire other private donations

CHICAGO, Jan. 10 /PRNewswire/ -- After the pain and tragedy of Friday's
devastating fire, the Pilgrim Baptist Church has been blessed by J.B. and M.K.
Pritzker with a remarkable gift. The Pritzker Family Foundation challenge
grant will match private donations dollar-for-dollar up to $500,000 to help
rebuild the historic church and restore its historic art and artifacts.
"J.B. and M.K. Pritzker have been very supportive of our church for years.
Still, for them to be so generous when we need it so badly is just
overwhelming," said Robert Vaughn, chairman of Pilgrim's board of trustees.
"Without contributions like this, we could not afford to fully replace the
church. It's a blessing from the Lord."
"We all know how this wonderful institution has improved thousands of
lives and elevated countless souls in prayer and in song. Together I hope we
can help reestablish these 'gates of righteousness'," J.B. Pritzker said in
reference to the Psalm 118 verse inscribed over the entrance of the now
destroyed building.
From its origin as a synagogue to its role as the birthplace of gospel
music, Pilgrim has served as the heart of the Bronzeville community for more
than a century. Combined with the renowned Sullivan and Adler architecture,
Pilgrim is a Chicago landmark and a national treasure.
Mr. Pritzker continued, "I want to thank Senate President Emil Jones for
his leadership in bringing together those of us committed to rebuilding this
wonderful facility. It is my deepest wish that our commitment serves as a
catalyst for further private support of this important effort."
"With this gift, I can see a magnificent new church begin to rise out of
the charred ashes of our old home," said Mr. Vaughn. "We pray that this
generous gift will inspire others to help us restore our community's spiritual
center."
Donations can be made out to Pilgrim Baptist Church Rebuilding Fund and
sent to P.O. Box 94433, Chicago, IL 60690-4433.
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/st...4246345&EDATE=

They are matching up to $500K. There's $1M right there.

Keep the public funds out of this.
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Old 01-10-06, 11:59 AM   #20
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Too late :

Quote:
Posted: Tuesday, 10 January 2006 9:43AM

Governor Donates $1 Million to Rebuild Historic Church

Steve Grzanich Reporting

CHICAGO (WBBM 780) -- Members of a Chicago congregation offered up prayers, gospel music and cash as the fundraising effort began Monday night to rebuild the historic Pilgrim Baptist Church after last week's devastating fire.

Governor Rod Blagojevich helped fill the collection basket with a state check for $1 million dollars during the service at Saint John Missionary Baptist Church at 115th and Indiana.

"I'm committing a million dollars to the rebuilding of Pilgrim Baptist Church," the governor told the standing room-only audience. "When it comes to what happens with the Pilgrim Baptist Church, it will rise like the phoenix from the ashes and be rebuilt bigger and better and stronger and more influential than ever before," he said. Blagojevich also donated $1,000 of his own money to the rebuilding effort.

The state contribution would come from a special contingency fund in the governor's office and does not require legislative approval, Blagojevich told reporters. The money can only be used to rebuild the school and administrative building attached to the Pilgrim Baptist Church but not the church itself, to avoid constitutional separation of church and state questions.

"This is an investment that's going to go along way towards helping a lot of people and I don't see anything wrong with it," the governor said. "Those who want to criticize it whatever their motivations are they are free to do it. "This investment is much bigger than just rebuilding a church," he added.

"A piece of all of us is in the ashes," said one pastor about last Friday's fire that all but leveled the historic church at 33rd and Indiana. Also on Monday, a donation fund was set up at the Amalgamated Bank of Chicago, where others could contribute to the rebuilding effort. Donations can be mailed to: Pilgrim Baptist Church Rebuilding Fund, c/o Amalgamated Bank,
1 W. Monroe St., Chicago, IL 60603
http://www.wbbm780.com/pages/2045.php


So a private insured school and a private insured administration office of a church with 200 members gets public money to rebuild a building destroyed by a private insured contractor .

This is the same asshole who put a freeze on the State Grant program for municipalities because the State was broke. Grants that had already been approved and to this day never paid out.


This is absolutely disgusting. No legislative approval needed?!? This guy is using tax money to buy votes, plain & simple. Hell, he even put the fucking check in a collection basket at a service. Nice publicity stunt, fuckhead.
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Old 01-10-06, 12:00 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DVD Polizei
Notice it's a 115-year old building. Many states have "historical" building clauses, which permit states to rebuild the entire structure if necessary. Doesn't matter if it's a church or an Athiest House Of Pain.

Yeah, I'm sure that there would be no uproar from Christians should that event happen. Better yet, make it a mosque.

BTW - I like that: "Atheist House of Pain" Maybe the NJ Devils can spin something off that for their new arena.
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Old 01-10-06, 01:02 PM   #22
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Eric Zorn is a Chicago Tribune Columnist.

Here's his latest blog entry on their website:

http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news...titutio_2.html
Quote:
Originally posted: January 10, 2006
Our constitutionally challenged and wholly transparent governor
Honestly, I swore at my TV set when this news came on last night:

On Monday, Gov. Rod Blagojevich pledged up to $1 million in state funds to help cover the cost of rebuilding (the recently burned out Pilgrim Baptist Church's) school and administrative offices. Blagojevich...said the state funds would not directly go to the church in order to maintain the constitutional separation between church and state.

I swore not only because this is such a blatant use of public funds to pander to voters in the African American community that were devastated by the loss of Pilgrim, but also because it betrays the governor's loose grasp of the Illinois Constitution that he's sworn to uphold.

Check out Article 10, Section 3 :

PUBLIC FUNDS FOR SECTARIAN PURPOSES FORBIDDEN

Neither the General Assembly nor any county, city, town, township, school district, or other public corporation, shall ever make any appropriation or pay from any public fund whatever, anything in aid of any church or sectarian purpose, or to help support or sustain any school, academy, seminary, college, university, or other literary or scientific institution, controlled by any church or sectarian denomination whatever; nor shall any grant or donation of land, money, or other personal property ever be made by the State, or any such public corporation, to any church, or for any sectarian purpose.


Italics added.

Government doesn't pay for churches, in other words. Not directly. And not through back door shell games and diversions. Not even when an historic and important church sadly burns to the ground. Not even in an election year.

Others expressed concern as well:

Civil rights activist, atheist crusader and Democratic State Rep. candidate Rob Sherman, for one.

Sherman called a news conference for 1 p.m. today at his home/campaign office, 778 Stonebridge Ln. in Buffalo Grove.

His announcement cited the state constitution, as above, and said:

These constitutional provisions are unambiguous... (Blagojevich) may have been well intentioned, but the plan is unconstitutional.

Sherman accuses the governor of using public funds to attempt to "buy Black votes," which sounds like a challenge to Blago's sincerity.

He can answer that challenge and dispatch the constitutional issue with a simple fix: Take the $1 million out of his obscenely swollen campaign war chest instead of the pockets of Illinois taxpayers.

He could join up with the Pritzker Family Foundation, which announced Tuesday it will match private donations up to $500,000 to help rebuild the church. Or he could drop it right into the Pilgrim Baptist Church Rebuilding Fund, c/o Amalgamated Bank, 1 W. Monroe St., Chicago, IL 60603.

The American Civil Liberties Union of Illinois will send a letter to Blagojevich this afternoon seeking more information about just where the governor expects this money to go and how he expects to stay within constitutional boundaries, said ACLU spokesman Ed Yohnka.

"Right now, we have more questions and concerns than we have answers," said Yohnka.
Whoops!

I hope Blagojevich is nailed to a wall for this.
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Old 01-10-06, 01:10 PM   #23
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Well there you have it. It would take quite a living constitution interpretation to get around that text.
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Old 01-10-06, 01:19 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevermind
This is the same asshole who put a freeze on the State Grant program for municipalities because the State was broke. Grants that had already been approved and to this day never paid out.
And the same asshole who took money out of the State's Transportation Fund (which has always been a huge no-no in the State of Illinois) and put it into other programs, then replaced some of the money in the Transportation Fund by taking out bonds.

Thanks for posting those articles, nevermind.
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Last edited by B.A.; 01-10-06 at 01:21 PM.
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Old 01-10-06, 01:22 PM   #25
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And the same asshole who took money out of the State's Transportation Fund (which has always been a huge no-no in the State of Illinois) and put it into other programs, then replaced some of the money in the Transportation Fund by taking out bonds.

Then there are a bunch of assholes, because that's a widespread practice by many states.
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