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Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

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Old 07-15-05, 08:07 PM   #1
OldDude
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France 'to expel radical imams'

I agree with the French. Inciting violence and overthrow of the system is not valid free speech and shouldn't be tolerated. Toss the imans out if they violate the rules. I don't know what they propose if the iman is a citizen though. Lock him up?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4688111.stm
Quote:
France 'to expel radical imams'


French Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy has vowed to deport any Muslim cleric preaching violence.
Speaking after meeting his Spanish counterpart in Madrid, Mr Sarkozy said he would seek the expulsion of imams in France "whose sermons are radical".

Mr Sarkozy said France and Spain had agreed tougher joint measures against Islamic militancy.

Two days ago, France reimposed border controls with its EU neighbours following the London bombings.

Call for unity

After meeting Spanish Interior Minister Jose Antonio Alonso, Mr Sarkozy told reporters radical preaching would no longer be tolerated in France.

"The [French] republic is not a weak regime and it does not have to accept speech which on the pretext that it is happening in a place of worship calls for hate and murder.

"Those who persist in this way will systematically be the object of an expulsion procedure."

Over the past decade France has expelled several foreign-born Muslim preachers after accusing them of abusing their positions by inciting violence.

The minister said Western countries must unite in the fight against al-Qaeda.

"I know of only one policy against these people - firmness, arresting them, punishing them, penalising them, in Madrid, London, New York, everywhere.

"We must never allow ourselves to give them the satisfaction of a division between us," he said.


Mr Sarkozy said he and Mr Alonso had agreed to strengthen co-operation in the fight against Islamic militancy.

France has stepped up security measures in the light of the London bombings, including restoring border controls with its EU neighbours.

On Thursday, French President Jacques Chirac warned that no country was immune from terrorist attacks.

"These terrorists have a mentality, a psychological state that is different from our own. All efforts must be made to fight against terrorism," he said.
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Old 07-15-05, 08:24 PM   #2
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I'd like to hope this becomes a trend but I doubt we would ever grow a pair big enough to try this.. too afraid of "offending' someone. Our country is so strong and so whimpy at the same time.
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Old 07-15-05, 08:54 PM   #3
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Personally I'd prefer they start convicting some of these people instead. Exporting them just means they go somewhere else and spew the same the shit. I guess depending upon local laws that may be difficult to do though...
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Old 07-15-05, 09:06 PM   #4
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What happened to the "France appeases radical Muslims" chorus?
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Old 07-15-05, 09:09 PM   #5
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Well, I'm going to be singing a new tune if France actually does this.

French Fries, French Toast, French Bread, and French Kisses, are back baby!

Will the US do this?
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Old 07-15-05, 09:24 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by General Zod
I'd like to hope this becomes a trend but I doubt we would ever grow a pair big enough to try this.. too afraid of "offending' someone.
I disagree. France may be a bunch of cheese-eating surrender monkeys when it comes to warfare, national defense, etc., but it is a priority of theirs to maintain their collective French identity. In some ways, they are more liberal than the US can ever be, and in some ways they are more conservative. The only folks they care about offending are outside their borders.

Last edited by SFranke; 07-16-05 at 09:27 AM.
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Old 07-15-05, 10:27 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger
What happened to the "France appeases radical Muslims" chorus?

Just wait, I expect they will appear shortly.
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Old 07-15-05, 10:30 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eXcentris
Just wait, I expect they will appear shortly.

It sure will. If they bend to public pressure and go back on this....
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Old 07-15-05, 10:32 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFranke
I disagree. France maybe a bunch of cheese-eating surrender monkeys when it comes to warfare, national defense, etc., but it is a priority of theirs to maintain their collective French identity. In some ways, they are more liberal than the US can ever be, and in some ways they are more conservative. The only folks they care about offending are outside their borders.
No, I agree with General Zod. Just browse some recent threads here where French counter-terrorism structure and methods were discussed. They go far beyond any Patriot Act you can think off. A country like the US built on principles of individual freedom and liberties would never accept some of these measures.
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Old 07-15-05, 10:35 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eXcentris
No, I agree with General Zod. Just browse some recent threads here where French counter-terrorism structure and methods were discussed. They go far beyond any Patriot Act you can think off. A country like the US built on principles of individual freedom and liberties would never accept some of these measures.

Would Canada accept such measures?
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Old 07-15-05, 10:39 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Myster X
Would Canada accept such measures?
We would be more likely to accept them than the US would. Simply because our values based on social equality, i.e. the greater good, are much closer to those of Europe than the US.
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Old 07-15-05, 11:18 PM   #12
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When France expells someone, is that the same thing as when the USA kidnaps someone in the middle of the night, flys them to Afghanastan, and lets the locals torture the suspect?

There was something on 60 minutes tonight, about that very same story. The USA kidnapped a canadian, while he was in NYC, and flew him to the middle east, where for 1 year he was beaten. The USA then figured out they had the wrong guy and released him.
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Old 07-16-05, 12:48 AM   #13
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I'm not sure who came up with the bright idea of flying someone way over to Middle East, just to beat the crap out of them. Hell, take them to a ghetto location in Chicago, Cleveland, LA, or something. Nobody would even notice.
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Old 07-16-05, 09:29 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eXcentris
No, I agree with General Zod. Just browse some recent threads here where French counter-terrorism structure and methods were discussed. They go far beyond any Patriot Act you can think off. A country like the US built on principles of individual freedom and liberties would never accept some of these measures.
Oops, I misread General Zod's post. I thought he said France wouldn't follow through.
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Old 07-16-05, 10:15 AM   #15
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good move .. now if the UK can do something similar.
saw a documentary of extremist type imams living in UK, preaching holy war againts the UK, and then commiting unemployment insurance fraud (or whatever its called).

if you've decided to live abroad, you have to live by the rules of the country. the religion tells us this. i guess, these people also like to pick and choose what to follow, and what not too.
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Old 07-16-05, 11:37 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomaan
saw a documentary of extremist type imams living in UK, preaching holy war againts the UK, and then commiting unemployment insurance fraud (or whatever its called).

Hey, give them a break. Maybe it doesn't meet the level of "jihad" they are always talking about, but they're doing their part to break the "evil empire."


(hopefully the fraud can be prosecuted and they preach in prison)
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Old 07-16-05, 12:27 PM   #17
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I'm all for convicting extremist Imams (especially the Saudi-backed ones), but I hope the governments in question (US, UK, France) don't take this as an opportunity to get rid of regular imams who might question the authority of the US-led war on Iraq and other such "initiatives".
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Old 07-16-05, 12:39 PM   #18
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I'll believe it when I see it. Remember, politicians of all colors and parties lie...a lot.
The FCLU will have a cow if this happens.

The US would never be able to do this.
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Old 07-16-05, 10:18 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eXcentris
We would be more likely to accept them than the US would. Simply because our values based on social equality, i.e. the greater good, are much closer to those of Europe than the US.
I do recall how European countries have very strict hate crimes laws and have censored several hate websites (for example, the Euros have blocked few Nazi websites based in America). I'm not really complaining about those measures and I do think there is a problem with a great number of extremist groups -not just radical muslims- abusing the free speech America grants them.

OTOH, I don't want to us to get dragged into ultra-censorship (ex. Canada banning the Bible because some view it as hate speech ). Another example could be the government banning video games or movies that blatantly promote violence against whatever and so on.
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Old 07-16-05, 10:37 PM   #20
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We'll never know unless we try.
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Old 07-17-05, 01:16 AM   #21
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It could happen over there a lot easier than here. The UK is used to giving up civil liberties in times of crisis, and the French already have a law against badmouthing the Prime Minister, so it isn't a big reach. For here, it would take something like a dirty nuke detonated on our soil for Congress to pass the Patriot Act 3 and the Supreme Court would let them, just like they let Japanese camps go in WWII.

You play poker? If shit hits the fan, everyone not white and Christian can come live with me.....but you have to play poker.
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Old 07-17-05, 01:56 AM   #22
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Gives new meaning to the phrase, "He just blew up during the Texas Hold'em tournament."
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Old 07-17-05, 12:48 PM   #23
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Now they're going to be a year behind all of the other imams in their class.
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Old 07-17-05, 04:16 PM   #24
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France will expell them from their country, and the US will take them with open arms. Hell, we'll even make a mosque for them to preach their anti-US opinions. Because that's what the US is all about. Freedom to do whatever you want.
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Old 07-17-05, 06:25 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kvrdave
You play poker? If shit hits the fan, everyone not white and Christian can come live with me.....but you have to play poker.

At first Dave, I thought that meant you were inviting them to hell (with you - a metaphor about playing poker with your soul).
Then I remembered you actually DO play poker. You meant those still ALIVE.



Shoulda known it wouldn't have been that deep. *doh* And that prejudice!
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