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Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

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Old 06-25-05, 01:24 AM   #1
Myster X
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UN demands access to Guantanamo Bay

It'll be nice for a change to see the UN demand the release of Aung San Suu Kyi or stop the genocide in Sudan. But nosiree Bob, Guantanamo tops the list of UN priorities.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4123200.stm

Investigators from the United Nations have accused the US of stalling over their repeated requests to visit detainees at Guantanamo Bay.
The UN says it has evidence that torture has taken at the prison amid reports that 520 inmates have had mental breakdowns.

The UN said for over a year there had been no response to its requests to check on the condition of detainees.

The Department of Defense told BBC News the UN request is being considered.

"As for the request to visit with detainees, the ICRC [International Committee of the Red Cross] already performs this important role," a statement said.

'Serious allegations'

Manfred Nowak, the UN's special expert on torture, has been given access to many countries, among them, some with very poor human rights records. He said he had expected more openness from the US

"We are very disappointed that a country that always was very... positive about high human rights standards... and which is also reminding other states that they should actually co-operate fully with the special mechanisms of the UN commission on human rights itself is not living up to these standards," he said.

They have been asking to visit Guantanamo Bay as part of an investigation into allegations of human rights abuse at the US-run prison.

The accusations include "serious allegations of torture, cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment", they said.

"The purpose of the visit would be to examine objectively the allegations first-hand and ascertain whether international human rights standards... are being upheld with respect to those detained persons," the UN statement said.

The body says it will begin an investigation into alleged abuses at Guantanamo Bay with or without US co-operation.

After three and half years in detention, only four inmates held that the base have been charged.

The International Red Cross does not publish the findings from their visits.
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Old 06-25-05, 02:25 AM   #2
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The UN can suck it!
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Old 06-25-05, 03:15 AM   #3
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Since the US thumbed its nose at the UN (you might recall), it shouldn't be too much of a leap why the UN is doing this.

Also, why doesn't the US demand the release of Aung San Suu Kyi or stop the genocide in Sudan?
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Old 06-25-05, 09:11 AM   #4
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What's the problem? I think we have a spare cell for Kofe down there.
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Old 06-25-05, 09:24 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DVD Polizei
Also, why doesn't the US demand the release of Aung San Suu Kyi or stop the genocide in Sudan?
I believe the U. S. has done so in requesting his release.

Just how do you suggest we stop the genocide in The Sudan?
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Old 06-25-05, 10:45 AM   #6
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Her.
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Old 06-25-05, 12:17 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myster X
It'll be nice for a change to see the UN demand the release of Aung San Suu Kyi or stop the genocide in Sudan. But nosiree Bob, Guantanamo tops the list of UN priorities.
Yeah, we all know there's only two people working at the UN and that they had to drop everything else they were working on because Guantanamo is top priority!
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Old 06-25-05, 12:48 PM   #8
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Yeah, we all know there's only two people working at the UN
There's no one working at the UN. Well, unless you count relatives of despots stuffing their own pockets with money, if you do, everyone's working.
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Old 06-25-05, 01:47 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eXcentris
Yeah, we all know there's only two people working at the UN and that they had to drop everything else they were working on because Guantanamo is top priority!
Does it makes you feel better if I bash Amnesty?
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Old 06-25-05, 02:16 PM   #10
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Abott and Costello, Laurel and Hardy, bhk and Myster X, the tradition continues.
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Old 06-25-05, 04:42 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classicman2
I believe the U. S. has done so in requesting his release.

Just how do you suggest we stop the genocide in The Sudan?
Well hoo-fuckin'-ray for the US.

And I have no idea how to stop the genocide in the Sudan, and think it would be a wasted effort in even trying. I would guess the UN feels the same.

Now, I don't like the UN. Never have. But to accuse them of misdirection, is a little retarded when the US is just as guilty, no?
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Old 06-25-05, 05:27 PM   #12
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Cheney: "detainees are well treated, well fed and "living in the tropics."
Journalists: "Can we see them?"
Cheney: "No."

Personally, I think Elvis is alive and in Gitmo, along with his pet sasquatch. Why else would they not want the world to see what's going on in there?
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Old 06-25-05, 05:37 PM   #13
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For some reason your little dialogue script makes me laugh. It's so true.
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Old 06-26-05, 12:03 AM   #14
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Sad state that we are even in this situation!

Fuel for our critics - let the UN in. If they find something is wrong then lets fix it. Seems simple to me???
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Old 06-26-05, 12:08 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfrank
Fuel for our critics - let the UN in. If they find something is wrong then lets fix it. Seems simple to me???
I don't disagree.

Just don't let them linger too long and set up shop there.
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Old 06-26-05, 12:11 AM   #16
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I don't disagree.

Just don't let them linger too long and set up shop there.
Are you talking about Gitmo? Or Iraq?

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Old 06-26-05, 12:36 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfrank
Sad state that we are even in this situation!

Fuel for our critics - let the UN in. If they find something is wrong then lets fix it. Seems simple to me???
Does it makes a difference if US allow the UN in or not? The UN agenda has already been made regardless.
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Old 06-26-05, 01:53 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfrank
Sad state that we are even in this situation!

Fuel for our critics - let the UN in. If they find something is wrong then lets fix it. Seems simple to me???

I would rather go with what the Red Cross says. Give them permission to make reports, etc. I don't think the UN is unbiased in this.
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Old 06-26-05, 01:53 PM   #19
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US acknowledges torture at Guantanamo; in Iraq, Afghanistan - UN

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Washington has, for the first time, acknowledged to the United Nations that prisoners have been tortured at US detention centres in Guantanamo Bay, as well as Afghanistan and Iraq, a UN source said.

The acknowledgement was made in a report submitted to the UN Committee against Torture, said a member of the ten-person panel, speaking on on condition of anonymity.
Somehow I'm not willing to buy this story just yet. Most likely some slip-up in the chain of command that will be flat-out denied by higher-ups. If this story does pan out though, it might be due to the pressure from the UN for access.

Last edited by Nutter; 06-26-05 at 01:58 PM.
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Old 06-26-05, 01:58 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nutter
US acknowledges torture at Guantanamo; in Iraq, Afghanistan - UN

Somehow I'm not willing to buy this story just yet. Most likely some slip-up in the chain of command that will be flat-out denied by higher-ups.
I think I'll wait to be concerned until I find out what consititutes "torture" to a group called "The Committee, which monitors respect for the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment".

Here's what the Convention says...

"Article 1

1. For the purposes of this Convention, the term "torture" means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions."
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Old 06-26-05, 09:30 PM   #21
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UN inspections of Gitmo. No way. Those inspectors couldn't even find the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. They obviously can't be trusted.

Trust the Bush administration. They know what's best for you.
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Old 06-26-05, 11:40 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classicman2
Just how do you suggest we stop the genocide in The Sudan?
Hi-ho! Hi-HO! It's off to war we go!

La la la laa la laa la laaa........

Hi-HO! HihoHihoHIHO!

Heaven forbid!

War is evil.
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Old 07-05-05, 12:52 AM   #23
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Protesters Demand Guantanamo Shutdown

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...namo_protest_2

NEW YORK - Feminist author Gloria Steinem on Monday joined about 200 protesters to demand the closure of the U.S. detention camp at Guantanamo Bay, saying holding prisoners indefinitely without charging them violates the values upon which the United States was founded.

Steinem compared Guantanamo to the kind of autocratic rule early colonists were trying to flee.

"They came to escape the very things ó detention without due process, bias, a religious government ... that we protest today," Steinem said.

Some detainees have been held at the camp in Cuba for more than three years without being charged. The U.S. government contends the prisoners are enemy combatants and are not entitled to constitutional protections.

Rachel Meeropol, a lawyer with the Center for Constitutional Rights that has filed lawsuits in federal court challenging the detentions, also addressed the crowd.

The Bush administration "has claimed the power to kidnap men anywhere in the world and hold them, interrogate them, detain them without any process of law," said Meeropol, the granddaughter of Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, who were executed in 1953 after being convicted of conspiring to commit espionage for the Soviet Union.
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Old 07-05-05, 01:28 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myster X
Does it makes a difference if US allow the UN in or not? The UN agenda has already been made regardless.
Here's a radical idea: Maybe, just maybe, we could try taking something at face value.

I know it's a shocking concept, but if Guantanamo is really the Club Med we've been told it is, I don't see any reason not to let the UN check it out.

As far as their agenda, they may have one. But what better way to discredit them then to show what's really going on?
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Old 07-05-05, 02:16 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myster X
It'll be nice for a change to see the UN demand the release of Aung San Suu Kyi or stop the genocide in Sudan.
But are Burma (sorry, "Myanmar") and Sudan members of the UN? They may be harder on the US because it's signed various human rights conventions.

Of course, China is a member of the UN, too.
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