Release List Reviews Shop Join News DVD Giveaways Video Games Advertise
DVD Reviews | Theatrical Reviews | Adult DVD Reviews | Video Game Reviews | Price Search Buy Stuff Here
DVD Talk
DVD Reviews DVD Talk Headlines HD Reviews


Add to My Yahoo! - RSS 2.0 - RSS 2.0 - DVD Talk Podcast RSS -


Go Back   DVD Talk Forum > General Discussions > Other Talk > Religion, Politics and World Events

Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-27-04, 01:03 PM   #1
Jergen
Returning banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 391
Bush on military intervention during the 2000 debate

Over the weekend, I checked out the cspan.org website where they have streaming video of the 2000 debates. In the first debate with Gore, Bush laid out a clear set of conditions where he would use our troops in any military action. Bush said we should only use force if it was in our "vital" national interest. Here were his conditions:

1. If our territory or people were under attack
2. If we had a strong coalition of allies
3. If we had a clear mission
4. If are troops are prepared and trained for a decisive victory.
5. If we have an exit strategy

Bush said he would be guarded in his approach to intervention. He said, "I believe we are overextended in many places" and we should stop extending our troops all over the world. He also said we should not be in business of nation building.

Now let's look at Iraq:

1. Iraq did not attack this country.
2. We have no strong coalition of allies. We are paying for 90% of the costs and have 90% of the troops.
3. Did we have a clear mission? First, we went in for WMDs because we might get nuked by Saddam. Whoops, nevermind...we went in to liberate the people, to protect human rights, women's rights, set up a puppet regime, blah blah blah.
4. Should the troops be considered prepared when families have to buy their kids body armor because the military won't provide the very best equipment?
5. Obviously we have no exit strategy.

His whole "guarded approach" bit was an outright lie. First we were overextended, but now we're not according to Bush. But we weren't in Afghanistan and Iraq during the time Bush claimed we were overextended. We are not doing much of a job in terms of nation building in Iraq, so perhaps Bush is consistent on his "no nation building" position. Otherwise, it seems pretty clear that Bush himself is a big time flip flopper.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-04, 01:07 PM   #2
al_bundy
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: in da cloud
Posts: 26,196
opinions are like *&%$ everyone has one

mission was to get rid of terrorism. where do you think oil for food money was going?
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-04, 01:07 PM   #3
raven56706
DVD Talk Legend
 
raven56706's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Back in the Good Ole USA
Posts: 19,343
Wow..... what a way for your first post
__________________
There is a master key and a spare key for the office. Dwight has them both. When I asked, "what if you die, Dwight? How will we get into the office?" He said, "if I'm dead, you guys have been dead for weeks."
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-04, 01:07 PM   #4
Birrman54
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Hoboken, NJ
Posts: 3,067
I seem to remember something that happened in 2001 that may have changed his mind.


birrman54
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-04, 01:10 PM   #5
raven56706
DVD Talk Legend
 
raven56706's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Back in the Good Ole USA
Posts: 19,343
Jergen... tell me.... whats Kerry's approach....... Back in 1997, in an Interview......even without all this talk of WMD...... he said "Iraq is a real threat"....


What do you say then?

it is easier to say after the fact of someone else doing what they say.....
__________________
There is a master key and a spare key for the office. Dwight has them both. When I asked, "what if you die, Dwight? How will we get into the office?" He said, "if I'm dead, you guys have been dead for weeks."
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-04, 01:15 PM   #6
Nazgul
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Nazgul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Jayhawk Central, Kansas
Posts: 7,121
Quote:
Originally posted by Birrman54
I seem to remember something that happened in 2001 that may have changed his mind.
__________________
2013 BuLi, CL, Pokal Meister. FC Bayern München!
2008 National Champions, Kansas Jayhawks
2010, 2012 World Series Champions, SF Giants
2008 Stanley Cup Champions, Detroit Red Wings
2008 NBA Champions, Boston Celtics
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-04, 01:17 PM   #7
nemein
Moderator
 
nemein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: 1bit away from total disaster
Posts: 33,730
Quote:
Originally posted by Nazgul
Something about a few hijacked airplanes but I can't seem to recall the details off hand



Or were you being serious?
__________________
"A second flood, a simple famine, plagues of locusts everywhere, or a cataclysmic earthquake, I'd accept with some despair. But no, You sent us Congress! Good God, Sir, was that fair? " -- 1776

"When you look really deep, we are all kind of shallow" -- unknown

My Countdown Counting down to: End of the countdown clock
2254 days 16 hours 46 minutes
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-04, 01:32 PM   #8
bfrank
Premium Member
 
bfrank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: So. Cal
Posts: 20,613
Funny how some try and understand why a view could change with one side but not the other.

__________________
B

Be good humans!
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-04, 01:41 PM   #9
classicman2
DVD Talk God
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 68,052
9/11 had not occurred.

9/11 changed things.

IMO, it was a watershed event.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-04, 01:50 PM   #10
Tommy Ceez
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Capitol of the Empire! Center of all Commerce and Culture! Crossroads of Civilization! NEW ROME!!!...aka New York City
Posts: 10,909
Quote:
Originally posted by bfrank
Funny how some try and understand why a view could change with one side but not the other.

I believe people are more supportive of changing your views after an earthshattering event as opposed to changing your views every 5 minutes
__________________
Tommy Ceez may or may not be a moron, but he's OUR possible moron - El Scorcho
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-04, 02:07 PM   #11
raven56706
DVD Talk Legend
 
raven56706's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Back in the Good Ole USA
Posts: 19,343
Well said Tommy Ceez
__________________
There is a master key and a spare key for the office. Dwight has them both. When I asked, "what if you die, Dwight? How will we get into the office?" He said, "if I'm dead, you guys have been dead for weeks."
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-04, 03:11 PM   #12
Tsar Chasm
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: PDX Metro
Posts: 8,951
Saddam Hussein and his army of playing cards piloted planes into large buildings killing many people. At the last moment, Saddam Hussein and his playing card pals used a Secret WMD Enabling Teleportation Device to whisk themselves back to Iraq where they were shoulder deep in their nukuler, biological and chemical weapons of mass destruction planning thereby facilitating the 10 year old plan of George Herbert Walker Bush to assist the Iraqis that were opposed to Saddam Hussein during and after the first gulf war only to pull the rugs out from under them assuring that they would be mass slaughtered so badly as to give George Walker Bush plausible backup reasoning for invading a soverign nation that did nothing but (as 42% of the US populace continues to believe, but no.... Americans aren't fucking idiots) destroy the twin towers and crash into the side of the Pentagon killing upwards of 3000 innocent people.

What was the question?
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-04, 03:13 PM   #13
Birrman54
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Hoboken, NJ
Posts: 3,067
Quote:
Originally posted by Tsar Chasm
Saddam Hussein and his army of playing cards piloted planes into large buildings killing many people. At the last moment, Saddam Hussein and his playing card pals used a Secret WMD Enabling Teleportation Device to whisk themselves back to Iraq where they were shoulder deep in their nukuler, biological and chemical weapons of mass destruction planning thereby facilitating the 10 year old plan of George Herbert Walker Bush to assist the Iraqis that were opposed to Saddam Hussein during and after the first gulf war only to pull the rugs out from under them assuring that they would be mass slaughtered so badly as to give George Walker Bush plausible backup reasoning for invading a soverign nation that did nothing but (as 42% of the US populace continues to believe, but no.... Americans aren't fucking idiots) destroy the twin towers and crash into the side of the Pentagon killing upwards of 3000 innocent people.

What was the question?
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-04, 03:26 PM   #14
al_bundy
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: in da cloud
Posts: 26,196
Quote:
Originally posted by Tsar Chasm
Saddam Hussein and his army of playing cards piloted planes into large buildings killing many people. At the last moment, Saddam Hussein and his playing card pals used a Secret WMD Enabling Teleportation Device to whisk themselves back to Iraq where they were shoulder deep in their nukuler, biological and chemical weapons of mass destruction planning thereby facilitating the 10 year old plan of George Herbert Walker Bush to assist the Iraqis that were opposed to Saddam Hussein during and after the first gulf war only to pull the rugs out from under them assuring that they would be mass slaughtered so badly as to give George Walker Bush plausible backup reasoning for invading a soverign nation that did nothing but (as 42% of the US populace continues to believe, but no.... Americans aren't fucking idiots) destroy the twin towers and crash into the side of the Pentagon killing upwards of 3000 innocent people.

What was the question?
i bet it's horrible knowing things that others don't get
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-04, 03:38 PM   #15
Venusian
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 36,974
Re: Bush on military intervention during the 2000 debate

Quote:
Originally posted by Jergen

1. If our territory or people were under attack

...

1. Iraq did not attack this country.
one could argue that our territory (the planes patrolling the no fly zone) and our people (Bush I) were attacked by Iraq.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-04, 07:04 PM   #16
Jergen
Returning banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 391
Again, the right-wingers are trying to link 9-11 and Iraq. The 9-11 Commission has already shot this link down. 9-11 was a very good reason to go into Afghanistan, but a very poor reason to go into Iraq.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-04, 07:06 PM   #17
Jergen
Returning banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 391
Quote:
Originally posted by raven56706
Jergen... tell me.... whats Kerry's approach....... Back in 1997, in an Interview......even without all this talk of WMD...... he said "Iraq is a real threat"....


What do you say then?

it is easier to say after the fact of someone else doing what they say.....
North Korea is a real threat. Iran is a real threat. Are we going to invade and occupy them anytime soon?

All Kerry was saying back then was we needed to continue being aggressive in the inspections process. I don't think he ever called for an invasion and occupation back in 1997.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-04, 07:08 PM   #18
Jergen
Returning banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 391
Re: Re: Bush on military intervention during the 2000 debate

Quote:
Originally posted by Venusian
one could argue that our territory (the planes patrolling the no fly zone) and our people (Bush I) were attacked by Iraq.
Oh, so that's now the reason we went to war? Great..."this man tried to kill my daddy."
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-04, 07:08 PM   #19
classicman2
DVD Talk God
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 68,052
Quote:
Originally posted by Jergen
Again, the right-wingers are trying to link 9-11 and Iraq. The 9-11 Commission has already shot this link down. 9-11 was a very good reason to go into Afghanistan, but a very poor reason to go into Iraq.
Your conclusion - whatever the 9/11 commissions says is gospel.

You're a trusting soul.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-04, 07:18 PM   #20
Jergen
Returning banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 391
Quote:
Originally posted by classicman2
Your conclusion - whatever the 9/11 commissions says is gospel.

You're a trusting soul.
Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize that each and every member of the 9-11 Commission and the Commission Staff is an outright liar. Thanks for clearing things up.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-04, 07:32 PM   #21
bfrank
Premium Member
 
bfrank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: So. Cal
Posts: 20,613
Quote:
Originally posted by classicman2
Your conclusion - whatever the 9/11 commissions says is gospel.

You're a trusting soul.
Or we could just continue to disregard the facts to suit our political views
__________________
B

Be good humans!
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-04, 09:45 PM   #22
johnglass
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Just north of Atlanta
Posts: 5,215
Quote:
Originally posted by bfrank
Or we could just continue to disregard the facts to suit our political views
I thought that was required in this forum.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-04, 11:57 PM   #23
nemein
Moderator
 
nemein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: 1bit away from total disaster
Posts: 33,730
Quote:
Originally posted by Jergen
Again, the right-wingers are trying to link 9-11 and Iraq. The 9-11 Commission has already shot this link down. 9-11 was a very good reason to go into Afghanistan, but a very poor reason to go into Iraq.
It all depends upon what you mean by "link". Did Iraq have have anything directly to w/ 9/11? I don't think anyone here has seriously made that argument in a long time (if ever, I don't recally what people were saying after 9/11 first happened). However if by link you mean we are in Iraq because 9/11 happened, then I think many people would agree that is the case. Whether or not you agree w/ that reasoning is another story.
__________________
"A second flood, a simple famine, plagues of locusts everywhere, or a cataclysmic earthquake, I'd accept with some despair. But no, You sent us Congress! Good God, Sir, was that fair? " -- 1776

"When you look really deep, we are all kind of shallow" -- unknown

My Countdown Counting down to: End of the countdown clock
2254 days 16 hours 46 minutes
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-04, 01:50 AM   #24
Snowball
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,429
Quote:
Originally posted by Jergen
Again, the right-wingers are trying to link 9-11 and Iraq. The 9-11 Commission has already shot this link down. 9-11 was a very good reason to go into Afghanistan, but a very poor reason to go into Iraq.
Just because there may not be a direct link between Iraq and 9/11 doesn't mean we shouldn't be there. I don't believe Bush ever said that Iraq attacked us on 9/11.

Iraq is a part of the WAR ON TERROR, not a part of "getting revenge" or "attacking those who attacked us" for 9/11.

The whole liberal mindset is that we should only respond after we are attacked. That doesn't prevent the initial attack though. 9/11 changed everything. We need to respond to these threats before its too late. Remember these people are like suicide bombers, responding after the fact does little good.

I think if liberals had their way, we'd have something like this:
Afghanistan attacks us on 9/11
We bomb Afghanistan and go home
Lybia attacks us
We bomb Lybia and go home
Syria attacks us
We bomb Syria and go home
Iraq detonates a nuclear bomb in Chicago
We bomb Iraq and go home
Sudan detonates a nuclear bomb in Washington DC
We bomb Sudan and go home

It would never end...

Last edited by Snowball; 09-28-04 at 03:04 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-04, 01:58 AM   #25
Snowball
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,429
Quote:
Originally posted by Jergen
North Korea is a real threat. Iran is a real threat. Are we going to invade and occupy them anytime soon?
North Korea and Iran have not invaded another country. North Korea and Iran have not defied the civilized world (read: "United Nations") for 12+ years by refusing to disarm. The diplomatic process is still going on to try and resolve both North Korea and Iran.

As far as Iraq goes, the international community was growing weary of perpetual sanctions on Iraq. We couldn't keep Saddam in the box we had him in forever. So our choice was either let Saddam crawl out of his box or take him out.
  Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:12 AM.

Rules - DVD Talk - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0
Copyright 2011 DVDTalk.com All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.