2012 Senate Elections - Page 2

mosquitobite · 05-01-12, 10:09 PM

When does Indiana ever have a voice in a Republican Presidential primary? Our state is always too late to matter.

I think it actually favors Lugar if we have a low turn out - because those will be the zombies that vote for Romney.

High turnout means people are still fighting to let their voice be heard instead of just crowning the media declared "winner" (even though he is FAAAAR short of 1144 delegates).

I think the establishment knows Ron Paul supporters will get out and vote. So they'll make sure to get out and vote as well (some for Lugar). Although I did read somewhere that over 70% of the GOP chairmen in Indiana support Mourdock over Lugar. Not sure where mine stands, but I'll guess Lugar since he's [my GOP chairman] a turncoat!

I get at *LEAST* (no exaggeration here) 3 mailers a week and 2-3 emails a DAY from Lugar. Most are heavily negative against Mourdock. He is DESPERATE and should have retired like all the smart politicians that saw the anti-incumbent writing on the wall!

I find it funny that my democratic friends are actually posting stuff in favor of Lugar.

I always ask them if they're going to take a Republican ballot, because there's no way in hell I'm voting for him!

Supermallet · 05-06-12, 04:07 PM

I just want to say how happy I am that Lieberman is retiring.

mosquitobite · 05-06-12, 06:03 PM

Lugar should have retired along with Lieberman...

chowderhead · 05-08-12, 06:27 PM

Lugar has lost his primary against Richard Mourdock. Indiana has a sore loser law so this is it for the 80 year old Lugar. He truly ran a horrible campaign. Hatch was in a somewhat similar position but looks to be safe because he took his primary much more seriously early on. This seat could potentially be very competitive now.

classicman2 · 05-08-12, 07:09 PM

Maybe Lugar could run as an Independent? Lieberman did.

Groucho · 05-08-12, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman2

Maybe Lugar could run as an Independent? Lieberman did.

No, as mentioned by chowderhead Indiana has a sore loser law. Not sure of the purpose of those, but there you go.

classicman2 · 05-08-12, 07:14 PM

Would the sore loser law survive a court challenge?

Groucho · 05-08-12, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman2

Would the sore loser law survive a court challenge?

Depends on whether the party affiliation of the presiding judge matches that of the candidate making the challenge. I imagine the biggest problem any challenger would have is that by the time their case made it to court, the general election would be long over.

classicman2 · 05-09-12, 11:58 AM

Don't feel sorry for Dick. He's got a good government pension coming.

It's difficult to see how any one can be more of a conservative than Lugar was. He was thought of as a hard core conservative by the rating groups I've seen.

CRM114 · 05-09-12, 02:38 PM

Compromise is unacceptable at any level to the new Republican party.

wendersfan · 05-09-12, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman2

It's difficult to see how any one can be more of a conservative than Lugar was. He was thought of as a hard core conservative by the rating groups I've seen.

You're living in the past. The recent past, but the past nonetheless.

Then again, so am I.

Venusian · 05-09-12, 10:04 PM

How much did Lugar's residency issues come into play?

I feel like that would have mattered to me. If the guy doesn't live in the state, why should he represent it?

wmansir · 05-10-12, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman2

It's difficult to see how any one can be more of a conservative than Lugar was. He was thought of as a hard core conservative by the rating groups I've seen.

I've been looking around and all the "ideological ranking" places I've seen put him squarely in the centrist camp. It seems he was usually just behind Snowe and Collins when it came to the Dems looking for a crossover vote. The National Journal actually puts him between Snowe and Collins in their ranking.

But from what I've read it was less about ideology and more about Lugar being out of touch with his state and running a lousy campaign.

CRM114 · 05-10-12, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venusian

How much did Lugar's residency issues come into play?

I feel like that would have mattered to me. If the guy doesn't live in the state, why should he represent it?

That's a big reason Rick Santorum lost his Senate seat in PA. Not only did he not live here but he sent his kids to cyber school and allowed his home district to pay the bill.

classicman2 · 05-10-12, 08:35 AM

When Lugar first came into office, congressmen & senators didn't go home every weekend as most do now. Most lived as bachelors (whether they were married or not) in apartments (nice ones) in Washington D.C. Sam Rayburn was famous for his exploits in Washington - famous for his poker get-togethers and good bourbon whiskey. Now, it's not reported if they were members of the opposite sex at those get togethers. I imagine there were.

classicman2 · 05-10-12, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wmansir

I've been looking around and all the "ideological ranking" places I've seen put him squarely in the centrist camp. It seems he was usually just behind Snowe and Collins when it came to the Dems looking for a crossover vote. The National Journal actually puts him between Snowe and Collins in their ranking.

But from what I've read it was less about ideology and more about Lugar being out of touch with his state and running a lousy campaign.

Does the National Journal show their actual voting records on issues?

Try On The Issues.com.

The National Journal ranked Sen. Barack Obama as the most liberal in the Senate. Do you believe Obama was the most liberal? Ask our esteemed moderator wendersfan.

CRM114 · 05-10-12, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman2

When Lugar first came into office, congressmen & senators didn't go home every weekend as most do now. Most lived as bachelors (whether they were married or not) in apartments (nice ones) in Washington D.C. Sam Rayburn was famous for his exploits in Washington - famous for his poker get-togethers and good bourbon whiskey. Now, it's not reported if they were members of the opposite sex at those get togethers. I imagine there were.

You are referring to the time when Democrats and Republicans actually talked with one another and socialized.

coli · 05-10-12, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRM114

Compromise is unacceptable at any level to the new Republican party.

Oh come on, BOTH parties are guilty of this. The last time anything worked in Washington was with Clinton and the Republicans. Since Bush won 2000, I believe politicans have become more polarized and more ideological and this reflects less moderates from both parties being elected. The Democrats didn't want to work with Bush after the 2006 elections, and the Republicans don't want to work with Obama after the 2010 elections.

Unfortunately this is the state of politics, and their BOTH at fault.

classicman2 · 05-10-12, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRM114

You are referring to the time when Democrats and Republicans actually talked with one another and socialized.

I believe there would be more bi-partisanship in the congress if they didn't return to their districts nearly every weekend. They might actually get to know the other members - even members of their party.

Of course the re-election pressure wasn't on most of the members back then.

CRM114 · 05-10-12, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coli

Oh come on, BOTH parties are guilty of this. The last time anything worked in Washington was with Clinton and the Republicans. Since Bush won 2000, I believe politicans have become more polarized and more ideological and this reflects less moderates from both parties being elected. The Democrats didn't want to work with Bush after the 2006 elections, and the Republicans don't want to work with Obama after the 2010 elections.

Unfortunately this is the state of politics, and their BOTH at fault.

Yeah, except that the Democrats capitulated entirely on healthcare reform (a one-way compromise) as just one example. How about Gitmo, Patriot Act, Bush tax cuts, and on and on. Name 4 significant pieces of legislation in that time frame in which the Republicans compromised.

classicman2 · 05-10-12, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coli

Oh come on, BOTH parties are guilty of this. The last time anything worked in Washington was with Clinton and the Republicans. Since Bush won 2000, I believe politicans have become more polarized and more ideological and this reflects less moderates from both parties being elected. The Democrats didn't want to work with Bush after the 2006 elections, and the Republicans don't want to work with Obama after the 2010 elections.

Unfortunately this is the state of politics, and their BOTH at fault.

I don't believe the parties idealogical leanings vary too much from those when there was cooperation in the congress.

wendersfan · 05-10-12, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman2

I don't believe the parties idealogical leanings vary too much from those when there was cooperation in the congress.

There were more Bill Nelsons and Olympia Snowes in Congress 20 years ago.

I did a 'quick and dirty' graph of the ADA and ACU ratings of Lugar. The solid lines are the actual rankings and the dotted lines show the linear trend:

BTW, blue = Americans for Democratic Action (ADA), red = American Conservative Union (ACU).

Clearly, Lugar got a bit more liberal over the time he was in the Senate. If I get an opportunity later today I'll do some work with his DW-NOMINATE scores, comparing him with his Senate colleagues over the years.

And no, Obama was not the most liberal Senator.

classicman2 · 05-10-12, 10:45 AM

Would a New Deal Democrat such as Lyndon B. Johnson be called a Liberal Democrat today?

creekdipper · 05-13-12, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman2

Would the sore loser law survive a court challenge?

Since I've never lost a case, I wouldn't know.

creekdipper · 05-13-12, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRM114

You are referring to the time when Democrats and Republicans actually talked with one another and socialized.

And had bi-partisan limo drivers to pick them up off the sidewalk outside the pub & drive them home.

Good times, Tip & Ronnie.

05-01-12, 10:09 PM	#26
mosquitobite DVD Talk Limited Edition Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Pleasantville - in black & white ;P Posts: 5,967	Re: 2012 Senate Elections When does Indiana ever have a voice in a Republican Presidential primary? Our state is always too late to matter. I think it actually favors Lugar if we have a low turn out - because those will be the zombies that vote for Romney. High turnout means people are still fighting to let their voice be heard instead of just crowning the media declared "winner" (even though he is FAAAAR short of 1144 delegates). I think the establishment knows Ron Paul supporters will get out and vote. So they'll make sure to get out and vote as well (some for Lugar). Although I did read somewhere that over 70% of the GOP chairmen in Indiana support Mourdock over Lugar. Not sure where mine stands, but I'll guess Lugar since he's [my GOP chairman] a turncoat! I get at LEAST (no exaggeration here) 3 mailers a week and 2-3 emails a DAY from Lugar. Most are heavily negative against Mourdock. He is DESPERATE and should have retired like all the smart politicians that saw the anti-incumbent writing on the wall! I find it funny that my democratic friends are actually posting stuff in favor of Lugar. I always ask them if they're going to take a Republican ballot, because there's no way in hell I'm voting for him! __________________ "Americans are so enamored of equality, they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom." Alexis de Tocqueville (1805-1859) French historian.

05-06-12, 04:07 PM	#27
Supermallet Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Termite Terrace Posts: 38,697	Re: 2012 Senate Elections I just want to say how happy I am that Lieberman is retiring. __________________ "if you truly want to discuss Sodom with me, send me a PM" - dvdjunkie32 Watch me squawk on Twitter: @Supermallet Check out my Bond commentaries

05-06-12, 06:03 PM	#28
mosquitobite DVD Talk Limited Edition Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Pleasantville - in black & white ;P Posts: 5,967	Re: 2012 Senate Elections Lugar should have retired along with Lieberman... __________________ "Americans are so enamored of equality, they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom." Alexis de Tocqueville (1805-1859) French historian.

05-08-12, 06:27 PM	#29
chowderhead DVD Talk Platinum Edition Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Earth .... Posts: 3,124	Re: 2012 Senate Elections Lugar has lost his primary against Richard Mourdock. Indiana has a sore loser law so this is it for the 80 year old Lugar. He truly ran a horrible campaign. Hatch was in a somewhat similar position but looks to be safe because he took his primary much more seriously early on. This seat could potentially be very competitive now. __________________ There go I but for the grace of Money!

05-08-12, 07:09 PM	#30
classicman2 DVD Talk God Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 66,868	Re: 2012 Senate Elections Maybe Lugar could run as an Independent? Lieberman did.

05-08-12, 07:14 PM	#32
classicman2 DVD Talk God Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 66,868	Re: 2012 Senate Elections Would the sore loser law survive a court challenge?

05-09-12, 11:58 AM	#34
classicman2 DVD Talk God Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 66,868	Re: 2012 Senate Elections Don't feel sorry for Dick. He's got a good government pension coming. It's difficult to see how any one can be more of a conservative than Lugar was. He was thought of as a hard core conservative by the rating groups I've seen. Last edited by classicman2; 05-09-12 at 12:05 PM.

05-09-12, 02:38 PM	#35
CRM114 DVD Talk Hero Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 34,824	Re: 2012 Senate Elections Compromise is unacceptable at any level to the new Republican party.

05-09-12, 10:04 PM	#37
Venusian Moderator Join Date: Nov 1999 Posts: 36,943	Re: 2012 Senate Elections How much did Lugar's residency issues come into play? I feel like that would have mattered to me. If the guy doesn't live in the state, why should he represent it?

05-10-12, 08:35 AM	#40
classicman2 DVD Talk God Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 66,868	Re: 2012 Senate Elections When Lugar first came into office, congressmen & senators didn't go home every weekend as most do now. Most lived as bachelors (whether they were married or not) in apartments (nice ones) in Washington D.C. Sam Rayburn was famous for his exploits in Washington - famous for his poker get-togethers and good bourbon whiskey. Now, it's not reported if they were members of the opposite sex at those get togethers. I imagine there were.

05-10-12, 10:45 AM	#48
classicman2 DVD Talk God Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 66,868	Re: 2012 Senate Elections Would a New Deal Democrat such as Lyndon B. Johnson be called a Liberal Democrat today?