Afterbirther Movement (long form released)

[CRM114]

Originally Posted by classicman2

I asked to see the registrar's seal. Without that seal, a b/c is worthless.

Just because I ask questions that doesn't mean I wasn't convinced.

But like many, you seemed to have accepted the false premise of there not being a seal.

I still can't believe that the proper documents aren't authenticated at the time a Presidential candidate files his paperwork.

[JasonF]

Originally Posted by classicman2

I asked to see the registrar's seal. Without that seal, a b/c is worthless.

Just because I ask questions that doesn't mean I wasn't convinced.

A birth certificate is not wirthless without a registrar's seal.

Now, I will agree that the seal provides a strong indicia of reliability that is not otherwise present. But if you demand a seal, what you are, in essence, saying is "I believe this unsealed birth certificate may be a forgery." And I have to wonder why you believe that.

[Mordred]

Originally Posted by classicman2

I asked to see the registrar's seal. Without that seal, a b/c is worthless.

Just because I ask questions that doesn't mean I wasn't convinced.

Fair enough. Personally I'd like to examine the dust from the elevator shafts of the WTC to look for the chemical signature of plastique. I of course do not subscribe to any kooky 9/11 conspiracy theories though!

[classicman2]

Originally Posted by CRM114

But like many, you seemed to have accepted the false premise of there not being a seal.

I still can't believe that the proper documents aren't authenticated at the time a Presidential candidate files his paperwork.

Please see post #19.

[classicman2]

Originally Posted by JasonF

A birth certificate is not wirthless without a registrar's seal.

Now, I will agree that the seal provides a strong indicia of reliability that is not otherwise present. But if you demand a seal, what you are, in essence, saying is "I believe this unsealed birth certificate may be a forgery." And I have to wonder why you believe that.

A birth certificate with the registrar's seal is not primary proof of age or citizenship.

You obviously haven't read what I've posted.

[JasonF]

Originally Posted by classicman2

A birth certificate with the registrar's seal is not primary proof of age or citizenship.

You obviously haven't read what I've posted.

Primary proof to who, under what standard? You're talking as if Moses came down from Sinai and said "Here's how you prove citizenship and anything else is per se inadequate." That's just not the way it is.

[CRM114]

If that's the way it was, I could not prove citizenship. I sent away through the mail to the state and they sent me a document.

[CRM114]

What about post 19. It's where you acknowledge there is a seal.

[classicman2]

Originally Posted by JasonF

Primary proof to who, under what standard? You're talking as if Moses came down from Sinai and said "Here's how you prove citizenship and anything else is per se inadequate." That's just not the way it is.

Social Security Administration

[CRM114]

According to the SSA website, this is what is required to get a ORIGINAL SS card:

We can accept only certain documents as proof of U.S. citizenship. These include a U.S. birth certificate, U.S. consular report of birth, U.S. passport, Certificate of Naturalization or Certificate of Citizenship.

You must present your birth certificate if you have it or can easily obtain it. If not, we can consider other documents, such as your passport to prove age. Social Security must verify a birth record for all U.S.-born applicants or any age who apply for an original Social Security number.

So when they verify, they'd likely contact the same office who provided the replacement birth certificate. They apparently hold hospital and other records.

[cpgator]

Originally Posted by CRM114

McCain was born in a US controlled territory of a foreign country. Obama has a birth certificate showing he was born in the United States. I'm not sure why Obama is more questionable.

I believe McCain was born on a military base, so I not sure what would be questionable about that.

[classicman2]

Originally Posted by CRM114

According to the SSA website, this is what is required to get a ORIGINAL SS card:

That's what I said.

You don't have to have primary proof, you can seek secondary proof - such as a delayed b/c, early school records, etc.

[Thor Simpson]

It amazes me how much trust the left puts in Hawaiians. Anyone who puts fruit on their pizza should be questionable.

[CRM114]

Originally Posted by cpgator

I believe McCain was born on a military base, so I not sure what would be questionable about that.

It's certainly a legal issue but one I have no problem with:

Almost since those words were written in 1787 with scant explanation, their precise meaning has been the stuff of confusion, law school review articles, whisper campaigns and civics class debates over whether only those delivered on American soil can be truly natural born. To date, no American to take the presidential oath has had an official birthplace outside the 50 states.

“There are powerful arguments that Senator McCain or anyone else in this position is constitutionally qualified, but there is certainly no precedent,” said Sarah H. Duggin, an associate professor of law at Catholic University who has studied the issue extensively. “It is not a slam-dunk situation.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/us.../28mccain.html

[Willy]

Originally Posted by Thor Simpson

It amazes me how much trust the left puts in Hawaiians. Anyone who puts fruit on their pizza should be questionable.

They are changing the name from pizza to freedom bread.

[cpgator]

Originally Posted by CRM114

It's certainly a legal issue but one I have no problem with:

Well that's just stupid.

[CRM114]

Originally Posted by cpgator

Well that's just stupid.

Less stupid than the Obama flap. Hell, McCain's legal counsel actually took the time to gather a legal opinion.

[Groucho]

There's one person who can clear this up once and for all: the doctor who supposedly delivered Obama! However, he will remain forever silenced as he died under mysterious circumstances back in February, just weeks after Obama came into power.

[Red Dog]

It's all rather clear that Obama is a hideous space reptile in disguise.

[Mordred]

Originally Posted by Groucho

There's one person who can clear this up once and for all: the doctor who supposedly delivered Obama! However, he will remain forever silenced as he died under mysterious circumstances back in February, just weeks after Obama came into power.

<bhk>Can't we just have The Messiah^TM resurrect him?</bhk>

[CRM114]

Originally Posted by Groucho

There's one person who can clear this up once and for all: the doctor who supposedly delivered Obama! However, he will remain forever silenced as he died under mysterious circumstances back in February, just weeks after Obama came into power.

They did find traces of baba ghanoush near the body though.

[starman9000]

Originally Posted by Thor Simpson

It amazes me how much trust the left puts in Hawaiians. Anyone who puts fruit on their pizza should be questionable.

Spoiler:

[cpgator]

Originally Posted by CRM114

Less stupid than the Obama flap. Hell, McCain's legal counsel actually took the time to gather a legal opinion.

If you say so. McCain was born on American soil - an American military base of all places. He meets the qualifications, and if someone has a doubt, they are plainly ignorant.

The issue surrounding Obama is (if I recall) was that he was born in another country. And while i don't recall now, but I thought there were somewhat valid reasons why people thought that - like either some family member or hospital staff said so, or didn't the ambassador say something about Obama's birth site there?

[Red Dog]

Originally Posted by cpgator

If you say so. McCain was born on American soil - an American military base of all places. He meets the qualifications, and if someone has a doubt, they are plainly ignorant.

I agree that he meets the qualifications but I do think there can be a legal argument (that doesn't constitute ignorance) over what "natural born citizen" under Article II Section 1 means.

[Numanoid]

Originally Posted by cpgator

The issue surrounding Obama is (if I recall) was that he was born in another country. And while i don't recall now, but I thought there were somewhat valid reasons why people thought that

From past campaigns, I'd wager that it most likely started with a poorly photocopied handbill, replete with grammar and spelling errors.