Cash for Clunkers - why does congress hate me ?

[wendersfan]

Originally Posted by kvrdave

I oppose this because it will be a slap in the face of GM when no one will use it to buy their crappy cars.

I don't know the details of the bill; is there a stipulation that you have to buy an American-made car?

[The Bus]

Originally Posted by wendersfan

I don't know the details of the bill; is there a stipulation that you have to buy an American-made car?

I'm not really in the market for an M, R- or GL-class Mercedes.

[wendersfan]

Originally Posted by The Bus

I'm not really in the market for an M, R- or GL-class Mercedes.

I was mostly interested in finding out if the U.S. government was subsidizing the purchase of GM cars made in Canada.

[Birrman54]

I think, to the sponsors' dismay, the "buy American" provisions did not make it into the final version of the bill due to trade law concerns.

[imperator505]

Originally Posted by Birrman54

I think, to the sponsors' dismay, the "buy American" provisions did not make it into the final version of the bill due to trade law concerns.

[olds403]

Originally Posted by fujishig

Much like many of the govt. programs. The problem is that it's the people with bad behavior that are screwing the economy.

Same can be said for the people who are getting help to stay in their homes... people who were more responsible or a little less underwater get no help.

The last time I checked this was america and you could drive any damn kind of car you want. If you can afford to put gas in you can drive it. It is bullshit that the new administration wants to try to dictate what kind of car you drive. If I choose to drive a fuel efficient car it will be exactly that my CHOICE, I will not be told what kind of car to drive.

[kvrdave]

Originally Posted by wendersfan

I don't know the details of the bill; is there a stipulation that you have to buy an American-made car?

No stipulation. I suspect that if they had put that in, the 1 billion price tag on this would have ended up closer to $4,500.

[s}{ammer]

I have a feeling this one is just a test program so that when the Chevy Volt comes out the government can make a new cash for clunkers law that will make the Volt the only new car that qualifies.

Gotta protect Government Motors first right?

[JOE29]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned already but this is what is being reported on Comcast. Your trade in can't be a vehicle made before 1984, of course there is a small window of a time limit to do this in, mid July to October is the latest report, that's it. And you can't just buy a clunker to trade it in for a new vehicle you have to show that you have been paying insurance for this clunker that you have for one year.
Funny thing is- I haven't heard any of these conditions before. When the TV media is reporting this they always say how this is such a great thing. But they never seem to mention the " conditions" . I wonder Why?

[wmansir]

The insurance requirement is reasonable, because they want to get clunkers people are actually using off the road. But I don't see the point of the age limit. Based on the age and MPG limitations I see a lot more SUVs, pickups and light duty trucks qualifying than passenger cars. I wonder, is this limited to non-commercial vehicles, if not I would bet most of the money goes to businesses.

[creekdipper]

I'm with those who count this program among the other ones in which government rewards irresponsible behavior (thus punishing wise choices).

It adds insult to injury that, not only do people who have "saved for a rainy day", lived within their means, made economical & conservationist technological choices, etc. NOT get any sort of reward for being good citizens...they end up footing the bill to bail out those who lived high on the hog. Where else will the government get the money to pay for bailouts?

Great lessons for the youth of America. Eat, drink, and be merry...for tomorrow, the party poopers & sticks-in-the-mud will be paying the bill for your party.

According to my doctor, I'm overweight. Maybe I can convince my congressman to sponsor a bill that will give me vouchers for Lean Quisine & pay my membership to a health club. Let my skinnier neighbors who have been exercising & eating more healthfully pay their own way (or, better yet, pay mine).

[NC-36]

Not all of us who want to use this program are irresponsible leeches.

After my wife wrecked her previous POS ('89 Ford Festiva) 6 years ago she needed my car ('92 Chevy Berretta) to do her job. I bought my '81 Pontiac for $500 because we couldn't afford a new car at the time and I just needed something that would get me to work and back every day.

We have since improved our finances and bought a '08 Nissan Versa 18 months ago to replace the Beretta. The Pontiac still runs well and is easy to fix, but no one will buy it or give me $4500 trade credit to replace my "vintage" POS with a new car.

For me the program does exactly what it is intended to do with just one snag - the car's too goddamn old to qualify

[creekdipper]

Originally Posted by NC-36

Not all of us who want to use this program are irresponsible leeches.

After my wife wrecked her previous POS ('89 Ford Festiva) 6 years ago she needed my car ('92 Chevy Berretta) to do her job. I bought my '81 Pontiac for $500 because we couldn't afford a new car at the time and I just needed something that would get me to work and back every day.

We have since improved our finances and bought a '08 Nissan Versa 18 months ago to replace the Beretta. The Pontiac still runs well and is easy to fix, but no one will buy it or give me $4500 trade credit to replace my "vintage" POS with a new car.

For me the program does exactly what it is intended to do with just one snag - the car's too goddamn old to qualify

Well, I can understand that. We drive a 2000 Honda Accord sedan because we inherited it (my dad died the year it was bought & my mom could only drive for a couple of years after that, so it only had 12000 miles on it). We were going to buy a Civic or hybrid (such as the Insight), but couldn't pass up a free car. We would have done the same if it got less gas mileage (depending upon the trade-in value). Our other 2 cars are '88 & '89 models, and we're going to donate one to a shelter who needs transportation to take women to job interviews, doctor's appointments, etc.

It's also understandable that parents with large families might choose vans or larger vehicles. Every situation is different. As you described, some drive the guzzlers out of economic necessity.

Of course there are exceptions. The resentment some of us feel toward "irresponsible" behavior is aimed at people who have the means to choose better but who deliberately choose the lesser option in an extravagant manner.

[Superboy]

Jesus.

Originally Posted by Heat

The new program is really faulty - it is rewarding bad behavior, the buying of a gas guzzler in years past. If you have an old, but fuel efficient car and are buying a similar car you are out of luck.

Oh well.

Originally Posted by calhoun07

Right. What if I want to upgrade my car? I drive a small sub compact car. What if I wanted to upgrade to a hybrid? Where's my tax credit?

I don't know if it's bad behavior that some people have driven old inefficient cars for so long, but it certainly does nothing to encourage those of us who want to upgrade to a hybrid and could benefit with a credit like this to help us make the purchase happen.

Originally Posted by fujishig

Much like many of the govt. programs. The problem is that it's the people with bad behavior that are screwing the economy.

Same can be said for the people who are getting help to stay in their homes... people who were more responsible or a little less underwater get no help.

Originally Posted by olds403

The last time I checked this was america and you could drive any damn kind of car you want. If you can afford to put gas in you can drive it. It is bullshit that the new administration wants to try to dictate what kind of car you drive. If I choose to drive a fuel efficient car it will be exactly that my CHOICE, I will not be told what kind of car to drive.

Originally Posted by creekdipper

I'm with those who count this program among the other ones in which government rewards irresponsible behavior (thus punishing wise choices).

It adds insult to injury that, not only do people who have "saved for a rainy day", lived within their means, made economical & conservationist technological choices, etc. NOT get any sort of reward for being good citizens...they end up footing the bill to bail out those who lived high on the hog. Where else will the government get the money to pay for bailouts?

Great lessons for the youth of America. Eat, drink, and be merry...for tomorrow, the party poopers & sticks-in-the-mud will be paying the bill for your party.

According to my doctor, I'm overweight. Maybe I can convince my congressman to sponsor a bill that will give me vouchers for Lean Quisine & pay my membership to a health club. Let my skinnier neighbors who have been exercising & eating more healthfully pay their own way (or, better yet, pay mine).

Originally Posted by NC-36

Not all of us who want to use this program are irresponsible leeches.

After my wife wrecked her previous POS ('89 Ford Festiva) 6 years ago she needed my car ('92 Chevy Berretta) to do her job. I bought my '81 Pontiac for $500 because we couldn't afford a new car at the time and I just needed something that would get me to work and back every day.

We have since improved our finances and bought a '08 Nissan Versa 18 months ago to replace the Beretta. The Pontiac still runs well and is easy to fix, but no one will buy it or give me $4500 trade credit to replace my "vintage" POS with a new car.

For me the program does exactly what it is intended to do with just one snag - the car's too goddamn old to qualify

Wow... this is amazing. Simply amazing. That people would equate buying an SUV with bad behavior, and call them having to trade in a vehicle and spend money to buy a new one a "reward" is simply amazing.

It's not a reward - it's an incentive to purchase a car that's fuel efficient. It's like offering cheaper college educations to students now who can receive things like financial aid and Cal grants. "but in my day, I had to pay for my education! this isn't fair! everyone should have the same disadvantages that i did growing up! nah nah to the government spending more money to help the economy grow!"

Oh, and it must have been hard driving a fuel efficient, newer vehicle the past few years. It must have been tough.

[D.Pham00]

I wish my car was less efficient. It has a combined MPG of 20.

And i almost never drive it on freeway, so in real life, it would get 18MPG or less.

[BadlyDrawnBoy]

What's amusing is that most of the cars eligible, i.e. cars built in the 90's probably have better MPG than the cars you would replace them with!

Friend of mine wanted to get rid of his old Jetta with this, and get a new Jetta TDi, and of course his old one is far too economical to count.

[fujishig]

Originally Posted by Superboy

Jesus.

Wow... this is amazing. Simply amazing. That people would equate buying an SUV with bad behavior, and call them having to trade in a vehicle and spend money to buy a new one a "reward" is simply amazing.

It's not a reward - it's an incentive to purchase a car that's fuel efficient. It's like offering cheaper college educations to students now who can receive things like financial aid and Cal grants. "but in my day, I had to pay for my education! this isn't fair! everyone should have the same disadvantages that i did growing up! nah nah to the government spending more money to help the economy grow!"

Oh, and it must have been hard driving a fuel efficient, newer vehicle the past few years. It must have been tough.

I thought that the cost of education had risen so much in recent times because of the proliferation of loans available to students?

And I thought the point of this program was to get people to buy new cars, period, under the guise of promoting fuel economy?

[mbs]

I might take advantage of this. I have a 97 Jeep Grand Cherokee that would qualify and have been thinking about looking into a Ford Escape Hybrid.

[Venusian]

http://money.cnn.com/2009/07/30/auto...ion=2009073108

Week into it, it is almost out of money. Does that mean it was successful?

[nemein]

Week into it, it is almost out of money. Does that mean it was successful?

If by successful you mean people buying cars they likely can't afford (and it sounds like in some cases cars that aren't going to make that big of a difference when it comes to environmental impact -- wasn't that supposed to be the real reason behind all this?), getting themselves deeper into debt, and potentially putting dealerships on the line to eat part of the cost, then yes it was successful.

Also consider... this is the same group people want to turn our health care over too If that doesn't scare you I don't know what will.

[Red Dog]

Originally Posted by Venusian

http://money.cnn.com/2009/07/30/auto...ion=2009073108

Week into it, it is almost out of money. Does that mean it was successful?

Funny thing happens when gov't basically 'gives' money directly to the people. Now that's actual stimulus (the merits of which are still debatable), unlike the $$$$$$ bullshit called a 'stimulus' passed earlier in the year.

[Venusian]

I wonder if we can get the stats of the cars traded in. How many are really the terrible polluters and how many are just cars that barely meet the requirements? I think this ends up being pretty bad for the environment

[orangecrush]

Originally Posted by Venusian

I wonder if we can get the stats of the cars traded in. How many are really the terrible polluters and how many are just cars that barely meet the requirements? I think this ends up being pretty bad for the environment

In as far as driving an old car is better for the enviornment than creating a new one to replace the working old one. Sure, this is probably a net loss.

[Venusian]

Originally Posted by orangecrush

In as far as driving an old car is better for the enviornment than creating a new one to replace the working old one. Sure, this is probably a net loss.

that's what i was referring to. unless of course the old one was a terrible polluter compared to the new one, which is why i was wondering about the data.


or we could go Brave New World style and just dispose of everything instead of reusing for the sake of the economy

[BKenn01]

Funny thing happens when gov't basically 'gives' money directly to the people. Now that's actual stimulus (the merits of which are still debatable), unlike the $$$$$$ bullshit called a 'stimulus' passed earlier in the year.

Yea, but a bailout by any other name....