Same Sex Marriage Thread Part 2

Venusian · 11-13-08, 12:15 PM

Continued from Why is same sex marriage so bad?

Venusian · 11-13-08, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spainlinx0

I understand the sin of premarital sex.

what is your understanding of why premarital sex is a sin?

Thor Simpson · 11-13-08, 12:19 PM

Posted this at the end of the last one, but...
Spainlinx0's question actually outlines this very well.

"I understand the sin of premarital sex. I understand adultery. So why not apply the same rules to gay sex. A sin only outside of marriage."

Because we do not make the rules when it comes to God's law. And attempting to "sanctify" homosexual sex under the title of legal marriage does not cover the sin. It only makes it more acceptable by society.

Incidentally, I think premarital sex is much more open to debate than homosexual sex from a biblical perspective. The latter is described more along the lines of adultery.

kvrdave · 11-13-08, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thor Simpson

Spainlinx0's question actually outlines this very well.

"I understand the sin of premarital sex. I understand adultery. So why not apply the same rules to gay sex. A sin only outside of marriage."

Because we do not make the rules when it comes to God's law. And attempting to "sanctify" homosexual sex under the title of legal marriage does not cover the sin. It only makes it more acceptable by society.

Lot of "sins" have been made legal and more acceptable by society without the downfall of Christianity or society. I think the goal would not be in thinking it would be acceptable to all, but that it wouldn't be discriminated against.

But I do agree to not understanding how one can understand a sin of premarital sex but then truly question the reasoning of homosexual sex.

Perhaps one should ask why Spainlinx0 believes premarital sex is a sin.

kvrdave · 11-13-08, 12:23 PM

Thread continuation/time continuation problems

Please delete the thread I started. And quit asking my questions.

LiquidSky · 11-13-08, 12:27 PM

I still want to know why these so-called "Christians" continue to cling to homosexuality as being the biggest "sin" above any other. Again, they need to take a long hard look at their own lives, how they treat people, etc. before casting the first stone and making gay folks their scapegoats. I have zero regard for these type of people.

Dr Mabuse · 11-13-08, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvrdave

Perhaps one should ask why Spainlinx0 believes premarital sex is a sin.

A good question, many would be surprised at what the bible has to say on that topic.

Groucho · 11-13-08, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiquidSky

I still want to know why these so-called "Christians" continue to cling to homosexuality as being the biggest "sin" above any other.

I hit on this in the last thread, but it's an easy sin to condemn if you're heterosexual since there's no chance that you yourself will stray. Whereas adultery, divorce, cheating on taxes are the kinds of things that can and do happen to anybody.

kvrdave · 11-13-08, 12:30 PM

I agree.

edit....with Liquidsky. I can't agree with Groucho no matter what he wrote.

Venusian · 11-13-08, 12:34 PM

C.S. Lewis briefly touches on this in Surprised by Joy. He says he will not comment on the sin (he's actually talking about pederasty) because he has never been tempted by it.

Venusian · 11-13-08, 12:39 PM

His quote:

"...the sin in question is one of the two (gambling is the other) which I have never been tempted to commit. I will not indulge in futile philippics against enemies I never met in battle."

Groucho · 11-13-08, 12:39 PM

It's like the "Virginity Club" at high school. Those guys would leave the club in a New York minute if some hotty showed up ready and willing.

joeblow69 · 11-13-08, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiquidSky

I still want to know why these so-called "Christians" continue to cling to homosexuality as being the biggest "sin" above any other. Again, they need to take a long hard look at their own lives, how they treat people, etc. before casting the first stone and making gay folks their scapegoats. I have zero regard for these type of people.

My guess is this sin hits close to home to them, as they see it as having a direct effect on their family. The more accepted homosexuality becomes, they think that will just increase the chance that one of their spawn will become homosexual.

kvrdave · 11-13-08, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeblow69

My guess is this sin hits close to home to them, as they see it as having a direct effect on their family. The more accepted homosexuality becomes, they think that will just increase the chance that one of their spawn will become homosexual.

HA! I knew it was contagious. I change my vote!

joeblow69 · 11-13-08, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvrdave

HA! I knew it was contagious. I change my vote!

Yep, we are an outbreak to them. A child corrupting, aids spreading outbreak.

Thor Simpson · 11-13-08, 01:04 PM

I agree that there is far too much of an emphasis on homosexuality without an equal regard for adultery within the Christian community. I would also contend that many homosexuals are placing far too much emphasis on their sexuality in their lives, but that's for them to determine, I suppose.

Naturally, I am only talking about the vocal ones that we actually hear about, as I assume you are with Christians.

I think that in day to day life the average Christian gives far more attention and admonishing to adultery than homosexuality. Probably because it is much more common. I'm sure this varies in different circles, however. I can only speak from my personal experience.

The Bus · 11-13-08, 01:23 PM

It still bewilders me how many people think homosexuality is infectious. Some people see more "open" homosexuality as a force that will lead their children to grow up being homosexuals, when in reality it will just make their children more accepting of people who are different from them.

Venusian · 11-13-08, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bus

It still bewilders me how many people think homosexuality is infectious. Some people see more "open" homosexuality as a force that will lead their children to grow up being homosexuals, when in reality it will just make their children more accepting of people who are different from them.

makes sense if you see sexuality as a choice. if you have that view, than homosexuality being accepted by society in general would probably lead to more people choosing it, including possibly one's children

Thor Simpson · 11-13-08, 01:31 PM

It all comes down to the difference between being homosexual in nature and homosexuality as an action. I don't think there are many people who (I could be wrong) think that it is "infectious" to people who do not have homosexual leanings to begin with. The idea would be that sin itself is infectious and begets more sin due to our very nature. This is true of all kinds of sexual impurity. Since homosexual actions are considered sinful by these people, they feel that acceptance would indeed increase its abundance in the population that is most affected by it. Of course there are people who engage in these actions no matter what, but the concern would be over those who might not succumb to the temptations without societal acceptance. Measuring this is impossible and the likely number of people affected in this manner is possibly quite small at this time. Perhaps not.

It's unfortunate that this matter is a huge stumbling block with regards to faith and action. It's a difficult issue to discuss in this context because in a personal relationship there are 100 things I would talk to someone about first before ever addressing sexuality. We all experience impure desires and lust of different kinds and I don't judge people according to such things. Establishing a relationship with God is far more important and essential before addressing temptations. Indeed, I think the concern is not so much about accepting homosexuals as confronting homosexuality within the Christian community itself and how that might be impacted by wider societal acceptance of the relationship. That clearly is not the case with regards to "hateful" people who target homosexuals in a broad manner, but I would take issue with their hatred to begin with.

Tracer Bullet · 11-13-08, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thor Simpson

Because we do not make the rules when it comes to God's law. And attempting to "sanctify" homosexual sex under the title of legal marriage does not cover the sin. It only makes it more acceptable by society.

People have kept saying homosexuals are also being intolerant. Can someone explain to me how I'm supposed to have any respect for an intellectual position which at its basis calls one of the most fundamental parts of my nature to be a sin?

This shit is fucking insane. It's like we're back in the 15th Century calling left-handers tools of Satan.

spainlinx0 · 11-13-08, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venusian

what is your understanding of why premarital sex is a sin?

You know what, I don't know. Growing up as a Catholic, in after-school CCD for 8 years, then on to 4 years of private all guys Catholic HS, I just always remember being taught that premarital sex was a sin. Of course growing up Catholic I don't remember what exactly wasn't a sin except for going to church and not eating meat on Fridays during lent.

I understand adultery because you have pledged yourself to one person, and to go and have sex with someone else was to betray that person's trust. From my upbringing I think we were kind of pushed towards all sex being bad until you find the person you're going to marry. Then sex is good because you're having kids.

I admit that is not a biblical interpretation. It's just what was drilled into my head from when I was young.

What is the biblical reasoning?

Thor Simpson · 11-13-08, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet

Can someone explain to me how I'm supposed to have any respect for an intellectual position which at its basis calls one of the most fundamental parts of my nature to be a sin?

If you look more closely, the position at its basis calls one of the most fundamental parts of all of our natures sin.

Tracer Bullet · 11-13-08, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thor Simpson

If you look more closely, the position at its basis calls one of the most fundamental parts of all of our natures sin.

Then let us get marri- OH WAIT

Red Dog · 11-13-08, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Groucho

I hit on this in the last thread, but it's an easy sin to condemn if you're heterosexual since there's no chance that you yourself will stray. Whereas adultery, divorce, cheating on taxes are the kinds of things that can and do happen to anybody.

I never thought of it that way. Excellent point.

Thor Simpson · 11-13-08, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet

Then let us get marri- OH WAIT

Because we are all sinful, the definition of marriage must therefore include relationships within the same sex? I don't follow.

11-13-08, 12:15 PM	#1
Venusian Moderator Join Date: Nov 1999 Posts: 34,647	Same Sex Marriage Thread Part 2 Continued from Why is same sex marriage so bad?

11-13-08, 12:19 PM	#3
Thor Simpson DVD Talk Hero Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: BWG's Mom Posts: 27,602	Posted this at the end of the last one, but... Spainlinx0's question actually outlines this very well. "I understand the sin of premarital sex. I understand adultery. So why not apply the same rules to gay sex. A sin only outside of marriage." Because we do not make the rules when it comes to God's law. And attempting to "sanctify" homosexual sex under the title of legal marriage does not cover the sin. It only makes it more acceptable by society. Incidentally, I think premarital sex is much more open to debate than homosexual sex from a biblical perspective. The latter is described more along the lines of adultery. __________________ "So they got a warrant and moved in. " - JasonF

11-13-08, 12:23 PM	#5
kvrdave DVD Talk God Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: Pacific NW Posts: 66,734	Thread continuation/time continuation problems Please delete the thread I started. And quit asking my questions. __________________ Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. - C.S. Lewis

11-13-08, 12:30 PM	#9
kvrdave DVD Talk God Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: Pacific NW Posts: 66,734	I agree. edit....with Liquidsky. I can't agree with Groucho no matter what he wrote. __________________ Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. - C.S. Lewis

11-13-08, 01:04 PM	#16
Thor Simpson DVD Talk Hero Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: BWG's Mom Posts: 27,602	I agree that there is far too much of an emphasis on homosexuality without an equal regard for adultery within the Christian community. I would also contend that many homosexuals are placing far too much emphasis on their sexuality in their lives, but that's for them to determine, I suppose. Naturally, I am only talking about the vocal ones that we actually hear about, as I assume you are with Christians. I think that in day to day life the average Christian gives far more attention and admonishing to adultery than homosexuality. Probably because it is much more common. I'm sure this varies in different circles, however. I can only speak from my personal experience. __________________ "So they got a warrant and moved in. " - JasonF Last edited by Thor Simpson; 11-13-08 at 01:09 PM.

11-13-08, 12:27 PM	#6
LiquidSky DVD Talk Limited Edition Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: Pokey Dot Lounge, Nashville, TN Posts: 7,097	I still want to know why these so-called "Christians" continue to cling to homosexuality as being the biggest "sin" above any other. Again, they need to take a long hard look at their own lives, how they treat people, etc. before casting the first stone and making gay folks their scapegoats. I have zero regard for these type of people.

11-13-08, 12:34 PM	#10
Venusian Moderator Join Date: Nov 1999 Posts: 34,647	C.S. Lewis briefly touches on this in Surprised by Joy. He says he will not comment on the sin (he's actually talking about pederasty) because he has never been tempted by it.

11-13-08, 12:39 PM	#11
Venusian Moderator Join Date: Nov 1999 Posts: 34,647	His quote: "...the sin in question is one of the two (gambling is the other) which I have never been tempted to commit. I will not indulge in futile philippics against enemies I never met in battle."

11-13-08, 12:39 PM	#12
Groucho DVD Talk Hero Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 46,742	It's like the "Virginity Club" at high school. Those guys would leave the club in a New York minute if some hotty showed up ready and willing.

11-13-08, 01:23 PM	#17
The Bus DVD Talk Hero Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Delaware Posts: 42,931	It still bewilders me how many people think homosexuality is infectious. Some people see more "open" homosexuality as a force that will lead their children to grow up being homosexuals, when in reality it will just make their children more accepting of people who are different from them. __________________ XBL/PSN/Steam: Chiwotweiler \| hd dvdaf \| last.fm \| Movies: 2002 / 03 / 04 / 05 / 06 / 07 / 08 / 09 "It's no coincidence that the forum where people are saying "I wouldn't see this in a MILLION YEARS" is the same place where we have thread after thread of clueless dudes seeking "dating advice"." - Groucho on New Moon

11-13-08, 01:31 PM	#19
Thor Simpson DVD Talk Hero Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: BWG's Mom Posts: 27,602	It all comes down to the difference between being homosexual in nature and homosexuality as an action. I don't think there are many people who (I could be wrong) think that it is "infectious" to people who do not have homosexual leanings to begin with. The idea would be that sin itself is infectious and begets more sin due to our very nature. This is true of all kinds of sexual impurity. Since homosexual actions are considered sinful by these people, they feel that acceptance would indeed increase its abundance in the population that is most affected by it. Of course there are people who engage in these actions no matter what, but the concern would be over those who might not succumb to the temptations without societal acceptance. Measuring this is impossible and the likely number of people affected in this manner is possibly quite small at this time. Perhaps not. It's unfortunate that this matter is a huge stumbling block with regards to faith and action. It's a difficult issue to discuss in this context because in a personal relationship there are 100 things I would talk to someone about first before ever addressing sexuality. We all experience impure desires and lust of different kinds and I don't judge people according to such things. Establishing a relationship with God is far more important and essential before addressing temptations. Indeed, I think the concern is not so much about accepting homosexuals as confronting homosexuality within the Christian community itself and how that might be impacted by wider societal acceptance of the relationship. That clearly is not the case with regards to "hateful" people who target homosexuals in a broad manner, but I would take issue with their hatred to begin with. __________________ "So they got a warrant and moved in. " - JasonF Last edited by Thor Simpson; 11-13-08 at 01:49 PM.