PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING In The Political Forum

[nemein]

Welcome to the Political Forum of DVDtalk. If this is your first time here you might find things are a little different here so please take the time to read through this, get a feel for the place and hopefully you'll enjoy it as much as our regulars seem to. The first thing that needs to be said is discussions of politics, religion, etc can get very personal and easily out of hand. Chances are at some point someone here is going to say something you might find offensive. In fact if you don't find something offensive at some point it could be brought into question whether or not you have firm views on anything Our goal here is to promote an environment in which people can present various ideas, opinions and points of view in a manner which supports discussion of these things. The moderators are not here to prevent you from being offended, we are here though to make sure the discussion proceeds in a civilized manner.

In light of that in addition to the usual rules that apply to all DVDtalk forums (no personal attacks, no threadcrapping, no spam, etc all of which are found here in case you need a reminder http://www.dvdtalk.com/legal.html) the Political Forum has a couple of rules/recommendations particular to it.

The rules:
- No "fixing" posts: This means when someone posts an opinion or point of view you're not allowed to edit or add a couple of words in the quoted portion and write "fixed" after it. This is done in order to limit misrepresentation, and since in most cases its use seems to be done in a manner that is tantamount to a threadcrap or personal attack, "fixed" posts are not allowed in the Political Forum. Such posts will simply be deleted by the moderators and continued abuse may lead to further action. The proper response is to quote the original post exactly and then make your comments outside of the quoted portion.

- No party bashing/generalizations: Posts like "liberals are smarter than conservatives" or "conservatives are more moral than liberals" do nothing to forward the discourse we are trying to have here, not to mention the majority of the time these types of generalizations are speculation, opinon, or outright false. If you are trying to make a specific point, like "[liberals or conservatives] favor ________" please back up the supposition w/ links to articles/polls/sites that support the point you are trying to make.


While they are not hard rules the following recommendations are also made to help foster a more cooperative environment:
- The use of links is strongly encouraged. When quoting outside resources please provide a link to the material if at all possible. This is especially important if you are quoting just a section of the original text so that quote can be put back into the context that it was originally in.

- Similarly though just posting an article and link, particularly as the first post in a thread, w/o any additional commentary to continue the dialog is discouraged. If it's good enough to post it's worth commenting on as well.

- Try not to "fire from the hip" or respond "in-kind" when posting. Take the time to think through your response and reread it before hitting the submit button to make sure it says what you want to say in the manner you want it said. This is especially important when a particular thread starts to get a little heated and people on both sides are getting worked up and feeding off of each other leading to an all out "flame war".

- As a follow-up to the above it is ok to take a break from the forum occasionally. If a particular thread is getting too heated instead of trying to get in the last word it is recommended to just take a break from that thread for awhile.

- Finally as in all the forums here at DVDtalk use of "report this post" feature (found on everyone else's posts in the lower left hand corner) is encouraged, particularly if you are to the point of having to walk away. As mentioned the moderators are not here to prevent you from being offended but if someone has clearly broken the rules/recommendations reporting the post will make sure the moderators at least take a look at it. Just like you, moderators have different issues they are interested in and there is no guarantee that a moderator is reading/following any particular thread.

It should also be noted we try to keep a balance of moderators on all sides of the political spectrum and those moderators try to apply these rules fairly to all situations. If you do have a problem w/ a particular moderator though please contact the DVDtalk administrators http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/contact.php.


The point of these rules and recommendations is not to stiffle any particular point of view or opinion, we strongly encourage open/frank discussion in the threads. This is forum meant for mature people to have "grown-up" conversations (to distinguish from the mature/adult aspects of the "Adult forum" ) about real world happenings. If you really want a "no holds bar" political discussion there are plenty of newsgroups/political forums elsewhere that will accomodate you.


CONSIDER THIS A GENERAL FORUM WARNING. If you insist on having this level of "discussion" here you will be barred from posting in the Political Forum (if not suspended or banned outright depending upon what you've done).

[bfrank]

[Josh H]

Huge

Long overdue IMO.

[VinVega]

How Cow, bfrank showed up. I knew he'd be back if we changed the rules.

Seriously, I've noticed a few new posters to the forum over the past few days. Maybe things are looking up.

[pedagogue]

Nifty.

Maybe i'll wander in here a bit more now.

-p

[kvrdave]

Moderators think they are so superior to us Norms.





What's up with bfrank coming around?

[hahn]

FWIW, I'll do my part to be kinder and gentler. Honestly, I'm not this sarcastic. This forum brings out the worst side mostly because it's my outlet for my frustrations about this administration. And sometimes, the smugness around here just gets too much. But I'll do better at walking away. I wish you mods luck in putting out the fires. It's the political forum. It's kind of like trying to light a cigarette while standing in a puddle of gasoline.

[classicman2]

It seems that some of the fun has returned to the forum.

[VinVega]

Yes, I noticed c-man had taken a small hiatus.

[Bandoman]

From the "high taxes drive productive Californians to leave the state" thread:

Originally Posted by nemein

Alot of people were complaining about the partisan bickering/sniping that was going on in the Political Forum. It was to the point where a lot of regulars were saying they weren't coming around any more because of it. In order to help keep things on a friendly/productive level we decided the institute the new rule. Overall it's a balancing act between what is/isn't allowed and I'm sure we don't always get it right but I think things have improved here since the rule went into effect.

BTW it might be best to take this discussion to the sticky thread so if you want to reply please copy/paste this post and continue there.

I was one of the people who had mentioned a lack of civility in this forum, and although I am only an occasional poster I read most of the threads here. Since the rule has been enacted I've noticed a marked inprovement in the tone of the forum. Sure, people still take the "liberals are causing this problem" and "conservatives are destroying our liberties" position, but are taking the time to try to back up their assertions to avoid making one-note sniping posts, which is good. I don't have a problem with anyone expressing their point of view, no matter what that view is. The non-reasoned bickering that so permeated this forum previously is, for the most part, gone IMO. Props to the mods, who work hard to maintain a delicate balance between allowing freedom of expression of opinions and controlling tempers/bickering.

[VinVega]

I don't know how much change I've seen, although I never had much of a problem with the place originally. Politics in general is an emotional topic, so emotional responses are to be expected. I do appreciate the efforts of the mods in trying to keep things civil. That's one of the things that keeps me coming back here.

[uberjoe]

I do think it's better overall. However, the mods never seem to advance past initial warnings. What I mean is a poster will make a useless/inflammatory comment, a mod will say don't do that, the poster will do it again in another thread, mod again tells them to cut it out, poster does it again... etc. How many times to you have to be told "stop" before you get a suspension? If there's no follow-through, there's no reason to obey the rules.

Still, I really do believe the overall tone has improved.

[Red Dog]

I haven't seen any change myself. Frankly, I'm a little tired of it all, and haven't been posting as much in here lately.

[Brain Stew]

Originally Posted by uberjoe

However, the mods never seem to advance past initial warnings. What I mean is a poster will make a useless/inflammatory comment, a mod will say don't do that, the poster will do it again in another thread, mod again tells them to cut it out, poster does it again... etc. How many times to you have to be told "stop" before you get a suspension? If there's no follow-through, there's no reason to obey the rules.

I completely agree.

[dolphinboy]

Originally Posted by Red Dog

I haven't seen any change myself. Frankly, I'm a little tired of it all, and haven't been posting as much in here lately.

I think I might just start sticking to the other forums where the mods and posters are almost always mutually respectful and fair.

The changes makes no sense if there is no consistency in how the rules are applied and if you dare ask someone to please help you understand what about a post is wrong, you get no clarification.

Of course, clarification when a situation comes up could only benefit all posters, as it could be later applied to all posts, so that everyone feels there is one set of rules for all.

Meanwhile, one group gets away with pretty much anything they want to do short of actual name-calling.

[nemein]

Meanwhile, one group gets away with pretty much anything they want to do short of actual name-calling.

The amusing thing about this statement is... both sides have been saying it

[wendersfan]

Originally Posted by nemein

The amusing thing about this statement is... both sides have been saying it

Yes, but only one side is correct when they say it. It's up to you to guess which one I mean.

[VinVega]

I guess you're doing a decent job when both sides of the political spectrum say you're biased in the other's favor.

[wendersfan]

Originally Posted by VinVega

I guess you're doing a decent job when both sides of the political spectrum say you're biased in the other's favor.

Yeah, but people say the same thing about the media, and I'm not so sure they're doing such a great job...

[VinVega]

Originally Posted by wendersfan

Yeah, but people say the same thing about the media, and I'm not so sure they're doing such a great job...

Thanks a lot. Now I'm like the media.

[Sominex]

Originally Posted by X

Sominex,

There's no need to be as antagonistic as this and some of your other posts.

Just want to make sure I understand you right (respectfully)

It's ok for certain posters to:

1. Criticize me
2. Attack me personally
3. Post pictures about me

But I can't make generalized statements?

I've been called "strident, biased, and devoid of facts ". If that isn't antagonistic I don't know what is!


I find it ironic (maybe wrongly so), that I contribute a LOT to this forum this is both neutral and contructive. Other's just criticize me and attack me, but my SMALL percentage of posts that respond with SIMILAR rhetoric to them are honed in on and singled out.

I don't know... I'm just wondering. No disrespect intended at all man.

Even though I've gotten reprimanded in the particular thread, I was told I was no longer allowed to reply, and I must post it here. So there it is (above)

[VinVega]

Originally Posted by Sominex

Just want to make sure I understand you right (respectfully)

It's ok for certain posters to:

1. Criticize me
2. Attack me personally
3. Post pictures about me

But I can't make generalized statements?

I've been called "strident, biased, and devoid of facts ". If that isn't antagonistic I don't know what is!


I find it ironic (maybe wrongly so), that I contribute a LOT to this forum this is both neutral and contructive. Other's just criticize me and attack me, but my SMALL percentage of posts that respond with SIMILAR rhetoric to them are honed in on and singled out.

I don't know... I'm just wondering. No disrespect intended at all man.

Even though I've gotten reprimanded in the particular thread, I was told I was no longer allowed to reply, and I must post it here. So there it is (above)

We're talking about The Path to 9/11 thread

I think you need to take a look at your posting style and how it may ber interpreted by people.

Originally Posted by Sominex

A) I'll feel free to comment on whatever I'd like to comment on, thank you very much

Originally Posted by Sominex

Wow! We caught the little fish! YAAAYYY!

Originally Posted by Sominex

Awwww.... if you say so. *lol*

I've mentioned those comments. Now, JasonF and chess were out of line for calling you condescending and for posting the daily show photoshopped picture, but I think it's fair to say that they were reacting to the tone displayed in your posts, not your argument and not necessarily against the person you are, or your party affiliation. They were wrong for making it about YOU, I absolutely agree. I know both of these posters and generally, they do pretty well at having a conversation or a spirited debate.

I'm only mentioning this because I DO think you have a lot to add to the forum and you are an active member, something that the forum always needs. Personally, I lean to the left on a lot of issues, so I'm generally going to side with the opinion of the lefty posters, however, I have gotten lefty posters exiled and suspended from the site for some of the things we've discussed in this very post. My only advice is even in the zeal to "win" an argument, to take a step back before you hit the submit button and make sure you're addressing the poster's topic (not the poster) in a respectful manner. If everybody does this, we're golden. Fair enough?

[JasonF]

Originally Posted by VinVega

Now, JasonF [was] out of line for ... posting the daily show photoshopped picture

When I posted the picture, I was thinking of Stephen Colbert's TV persona. He's a pretentious blowhard who puts people "on notice" for perceived slights, which are not necessarily actual insults. He put "bears" on notice, for example.

So when I posted the picture, I was trying to poke fun at myself as much as at Sominex. I was trying to say that we had become enemies who couldn't communicate with each other -- not real enemies, though, but cartoonish enemies a la Stephen Colbert and his enemies, real and imagined. It was an attempt to bow out of the conversation and defuse the situation.

Sorry that it failed.

[VinVega]

Originally Posted by JasonF

When I posted the picture, I was thinking of Stephen Colbert's TV persona. He's a pretentious blowhard who puts people "on notice" for perceived slights, which are not necessarily actual insults. He put "bears" on notice, for example.

So when I posted the picture, I was trying to poke fun at myself as much as at Sominex. I was trying to say that we had become enemies who couldn't communicate with each other -- not real enemies, though, but cartoonish enemies a la Stephen Colbert and his enemies, real and imagined. It was an attempt to bow out of the conversation and defuse the situation.

Sorry that it failed.

Yes, it didn't go over too well. I certainly didn't get it, although Colbert is very funny.

[bwvanh114]

Death to JasonF, I plan a Day of Rage unless he bows down and properly apologizes!

Note to the humor-impaired: I am not calling for Jason's death. It's a parody of the muslims who are calling for the pope's death for not quite apologizing the way they want.