Hints/tips/advice for a newbie..... please?

[db27]

I like the idea of this forum, lets me stay right at home here on dvdtalk and take care of all my bizniz for the most part.

I casually have been playing poker with my friends for several months, and am enjoying it quite a lot.

'Bout a month ago on a friends recommedation I joined up with partypoker and a couple other sites (pokerstars, truepoker) to check 'em all out.

Did the free thing for awhile till I found the site I liked best. Ultimately I think partypoker is my favorite. Smooth, no frills, though I like the stats part of pokerstars a lot.

Anyway. I put $50 in and got going. Most played .50/$1 tables which was a good time, then I tried NL $25 tables as well. In a couple of days my bankroll was at $146 (included a $20 bonus from PP)

Needless to say, since then things haven't been pretty. I've lost that and then another $50.

I want to continue to play because (A) it's a TON of fun, and (B) I'd like to improve, and (C) maybe actually win something.

I'd be happy if I through in another $50 and just was able to continue playing on that for a few weeks.

Anyway, this is probably everyones story to start, or at least similar to it.

What can you veterans suggest?

My knowledge is weak, I know nothing of odds and that sort of thing. Perhaps a book is best?

Thanks in advance.

[Wizdar]

I don’t consider myself a “veteran” but I know something about 12 step programs. You might wanna consider it.

Yes. Read. I’d suggest Phil Hellmuth’s book to start. Others will come by with their suggestions.

Just try to remember that dogs are supposed to chase things. It’s another story with people.






Last time I saw "through" misused, I got royally screwed in an eBay deal.

[moorehed]

THIS PERTAINS TO LIMIT HOLDEM. (if you want your 50 to last for a while thats where you should maybe stick for a while).

first i would suggest NOT reading the phil book... first at least... check out the book I reccomended and the other slansky book reccomended in the book thread.

http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthr...hreadid=387001


next, get a decent starting hand strategy. for a beginner, the tighter (fewer hands played) the better i would say. until you get a better grip on things I would say play only 2 cards 10-A, even if your 69 is suited.

after that, learn about position and to alter your play accordingly. (you can play more hands from the button and just to the right than you can from the left of the blinds because you can be more confident what the action of the hand will be). for example, a hand like JT you should probably throw away if you are the first person to act preflop, because if you call and then it is raised, you really don't want to pay 2 bets to see the flop. however if you are on the button, by the time it gets to you if it is 2 bets to you you fold, if it is only one you can be fairly confident you will se the flop for only one bet. if you put in one bet and it gets raised, in most all cases it is correct to pay the 2nd bet to see the flop... if it gets raised twice tho probably fold, unless you have AA-JJ or AK...

next, be agressive. if you flopped a good hand BET. in most all cases, slowplaying is just giving your opponents a free chance to draw out on you and beat your hand. you want them to have to pay for that card. there are exceptions, but save those for once you've got some experience.

next, remember, at these limits almost all the players are bad, and the players come and go from tables fast. forget your trick plays, forget your cute plays, if you have a hand, bet it, if you don't, in most cases fold when bet to.

next. be agressive. yes. again. if you hit your flush on the river, don't just call someones bet... even if you fear being beaten (in most cases). i can't tell you how many times i have had a decent hand, and someone hit their flush on the river, i bet and they just called. they missed all the extra bets they shoudl have collected when they hit their flush. you need to get maximum value from your winning hands.

forget about big laydowns.

be agressive.

don't make bad calls! learn about pot odds... very simple. pot odds are the ratio of the bet you are about to put into the pot compared to what is in the pot now. if that ratio is larger than the ratio of the cards in the deck (minus your hole and ocmmunity cards) to the cards taht will give you a winning hand you should call a bet in most cases. if not, fold. i will give some examples.

assume for the following you are playing .5/1 holdem and suits are neglegable.

5 players see the flop for 2 bets each (you raised on the button). you are on the button and hold AT. board reads 5 J Q. first player to act bets. everyone calls and it gets to you. what do you do?

Spoiler:

call. the current bet to you is .50. there is currently 7.00 in the pot. there are 4 cards (the kings) out of 47 that give you the best hand. 7.00/.50 is larger than 47/4. you are 11-1 to get the card you need, and are getting 14-1 pot odds on your bet.

2 players see the flop for 1 bet each. you are on the button and hold AT. board reads 5 J Q. first player to act bets. what do you do?

Spoiler:

fold. there is only 1.50 in the pot. you are only getting 3-1 pot odds, but still have 11-1 to get your card. FOLD most draws in small pots. likewise, play your pairs more agressively.

i could go on and on, but i wont. .

lastly, one thing that has saved me a LOT of money that took me a long time to figure out. DO NOT COLD CALL unless you you hold a great hand. (TT-AA or AK most of the time). what this means is, if someone raises preflop, do not call the initial bet AND the raise at the same time with a weaker hand (ie AT). the chance that you are already beat badly by a hand like AQ/AK etc is large. you will save a lot of money by throwing away these hands you would normally play. of course if the raiser has been raising with crap all night, you can adopt a different strategy.

take notes of bad players and follow them around.

and lastly, be agressive.

oh and keep reading more books.

[moorehed]

there are probably errors above. ^^^^ let me know. i just whipped this up on the fly.

one other thing, a good thing to do as a beginner is be a bonus whore. scan recpoker.com or pick up a cardplayer magazine and scan for bonuses. play at new sites that offer bonuses... you will have to fulfill played hand requirements... but as you do, the bonuses should help to offset your initial losses while you tighten up your game.

[Borst]

Please do not read Phils book til a year or more from now when you know how to play and want to read it for entertainment value

$50 at $0.50/$1 tables is way way to little to not run the risk of going broke. For those tables since you're a beginner you should have 300BB to play a certain level. If you want to play with $50 you should start at the $0.10/$0.20 limit tables

Til you're at a much higher skill level and bankroll stay away from the no limit tables as you should have 20x the buy in to play them (so for the $25 NL on Party you should have $500 bankroll)

Books you should get are Winning Low Limit Holdem by Lee Jones or Internet Texas Holdem by Matthew Hilger

[Jeremy517]

Your bankroll is far too small for $25 NL. Stay away unless you are willing to put in a lot more, or until you build your bankroll to a lot higher.

[eisenreich]

I agree with those who said to stay away from Helmuth's book. My roommate, who has been playing online for over 3 years, has about 10 and he said it is absolutely the worst out there. He is excited about the sudden popularity boost as many players without a clue rush in with big bankrolls.

Poker is extremely fun to play, but I would definitely recommend stepping back from putting too much money in before you are more well-versed with the game. Although you can't learn all there is to know from a book, there are certain things that will save you a lot of money down the road.

Best of luck-

[moorehed]

300 x the BB? christ. is that neccesary? perhaps for a newb to play enough to get to the point where he can break even and not have to put more in...

but id say 50 is enough to play .5/1 with the understanding you may have a bad swing and have to redeposit again... but eventually you will get headed in the right direction.

[Jeremy517]

300 BB might be a bit excessive for the limits he's playing, but $50 definitely isn't anywhere near enough for $25 NL.

[Borst]

Yes 300BB is neccessary unless like you said you want to redeposit again and if you go broke and have to put in more money that can be a big blow to your thinking that you're playing good winning poker. Then the 2nd (or 3rd or more) deposit you'll loosen up and chase more to try to hit bigger wins or get desperate with your last 20BB or something like that.

[moorehed]

i like to sit down w/100x BB... i guess i just think about this being enough cause i never really blow through that without bouncing back.

when i started i deposited 50 and played .5/1 for a month maybe then lost it, then deposited another 50 and lost it within a week or 2, then deposited 100 and never went broke again... is that normal?

however i talked to a dude online who was down 3k and had only been playing for not quite a month. heh i followed him around for a while. he doesnt seem to play anymore

[Borst]

So moorehed you basically were in for 200BB the risk of ruin (the chance that'll go broke) for 200BB isnt very high, 300BB is what's suggested for beginners because the risk of ruin is like under 5%. The risk of ruin for only 50BB is probably 50% or more (I don't have the charts here at work to look the actual numbers up)

[moorehed]

eventual ruin i guess... but i played on my first 50 for a good while... long enough to evaluate if i wanted to reup after i lost it....

[db27]

thanks so much for the suggestions, after dinner I'm gonna read through them more, thinking about maybe playing a little later.

maybe do a sit and go or something.

[Spy021]

A lot of excellent advice so far!

I definitely have to agree with playing tight. That strategy alone will do wonders for curtailing huge losses at the tables. I don't know the exact figure, but you only want to be playing something like 20% of the hands dealt to you. Playing much more than that and you'll notice that you'll be taking on a lot of "bad" beats by hands that frequently get dominated or outkicked (i.e. A5o, K6o, etc.)

Also as mentioned, in most of the low limit games, it is rarely correct to slow play. Most people who play low limit are happy to call any bet that you throw into the pot. No need to try and milk extra money from most players. "If you bet it, they will call it" is the motto for many.

When you have the best hand play it strong... yes you may occasionally get beat but in the long run you will make money. For example, if you flop TPTK (Top Pair Top Kicker) get your money in the pot. While it is unlikely you will get a lot of players to fold, even if they are beat at the moment, you want to collect as much as possible on the hands that you do play and win.

Also, learn to read the board. Always know what the strongest hand (Nuts) at any given moment is. This will help you in determining what you should play or what you should fold, even if you are not good at pot odds or implied odds. (ex. Rarely is it correct to call when there are four suited cards on the board and you only hold Top Pair).

Also, when you sit down at a table to play, be sure that you have at least enough money to cover 20 big bets. The last thing you want to do is only have $10 in front of you in a $2/$4 game and get dealt pocket Aces. If during your play, you drop to less than 10 big bets and you feel that you want to conitune playing, buy in with more chips.

In slight contrast to my previous comment about buying in. Be sure to set a stop limit before you sit and play your first hand. Even the pros have sessions where they cannot seem to catch a break. Find a limit that you are cofortable losing without going crazy or beating yourself up over. I typically set my stop limit at 30 big bets. If I am playing and lose 30 big bets, then I am done for that session. I will walk away and find something else to do with my time and come back later. You never want to go on tilt and try to "Win it back plus more."

Sit-n-go's are a great way to get practice on the cheap. It allows you to play a lot of hands for a small buy-in ($5+$1). This is excellent practice I think.

If you really are serious about improving your game, take notes. Nothing is more helpful then reviewing your notes after a winning or losing sessions. Having the time to review each hand without a buzzer going off every 20 seconds is a nice luxury that many do not take. If your real lazy or real analytical about your game, consider picking up a program like Poker Tracker. It will log all of your game information and allow you to see how you and your oppenents play.

[moorehed]

good post...

[Wizdar]

Originally posted by moorehed
get a decent starting hand strategy

Well, that's about the only thing I took away from Motormouth's book. But that by itself paid for the book.

[moorehed]

helmuths starting hand strategy? i thought that part of his book was rather rediculous... is it working for you?

[Wizdar]

What’s not to work? Pairs 8 and above (although I’ll toss 8s and 9s unless I have position), AKs, AKo, AQ. Something wrong with these starting hands?

[Bushdog]

I think that is a great strategy for a starting player. Especially since it seems like my experience is that inexperienced players chase flushes and straights way too much.

[db27]

clearly I play way too much crap.

[Spy021]

I think Phil's starting hands are a good place for a beginning player to start. Far too many new players get involved in way to many hands. This frequently leads them to play hands that are dominated (A4o, K5o) or chase too many straights and flushes, many which are not even close to the nuts.

However, once you have a better understanding of the game, you can clearly open up your starting hands, especially based on the texture of the game your playing. It's just much better to play fewer hands until you get a better grasp of the concepts and fundamentals of the game, rather than limping or cold calling with poor hands and then wondering how you are always coming up with second-best hand. Of course if your a recent lotto winner, then you are free to throw this information out entirely.

[db27]

So, pairs above 8
and any variation of AK, or AQ

so it's best to throw away a low pair?

what if I had 55 at a table with 10 people, and say half fold in front of me?

can you explain to me what "the nuts" means?

[Jeremy517]

If you only play those hands, you're going to get bored awfully quick.

You can play more hands depending on what your table position is. If you're first to bet, you need to be very tight. If you have the dealer button, you can be a bit looser than you would normally.

The best way to play low pocket pairs is to get in against as many people as possible. You're pretty much relying on making a set, so you want as good of odds as possible. Implied odds (that is, money that you can anticipate being put into the pot in later rounds) often let you call even with few callers in front of you though. In early position, dump low pairs. If you don't make your set on the flop, try to see a free card. If someone else bets, unless you think they're stealing, you should most likely get out of there.

[db27]

thanks very much for that post.

helpful in many ways.