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Old 08-11-17, 05:09 AM   #1
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Homeowners or rental property insurance q.

I was at a craft show this past weekend. We set up on the sidewalk and during the day the road is closed and people can walk the street and visit the various craft tents. The house behind us is a small apt building with a retail store out front. The tenants were nice enough to let us park in the parking lot during the day. This makes it so much easier to pack, unpack, and replenish stock vs. parking blocks away. During the day the owner comes by and starts bitching that I am illegally parking on his property and what a liability it is. His insurance doesn't cover me. I explained about the tenants but he said they have no right to do that, they were just being nice. (what's wrong with being nice?) Since the road was closed there was nothing he could do about it. Sunday I parked off sight but I was 2 blocks away. I offered to rent the spot but he said he didn't have a lease(?) for something like that. I just figured I'd throw him a $50 or so for the weekend. Even a $100 would be worth it.

My question. I owned some rental property back in the 80's and don't remember my insurance limiting who can park there. Or the option to have that. I thought everyone has liability insurance that would cover them. Not sure what he thought would happen? Anyone familiar with insurance, can he possibly have such restrictions or was he just being an overly cautious dick? How would you guys approach it for next year? Conveniently forget or contact him in advance with some sort of hold harmless agreement?
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Old 08-11-17, 05:57 AM   #2
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Re: Homeowners or rental property insurance q.

Laws are different in different states so hard to tell. I think he was just worried he might be liable for damage to your cars. I don't see how it differs from visitors of the tenants.

Around here when some event is going on people have signs in their yards offering parking for a fee.
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Old 08-11-17, 07:10 AM   #3
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Re: Homeowners or rental property insurance q.

He was just being a dick and making up excuses to keep people from parking there. If you park in a random parking lot and your car gets broken into it is not the responsibility of the lot owner to pay for your damages.
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Old 08-11-17, 11:14 AM   #4
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Re: Homeowners or rental property insurance q.

I'm sure somewhere is someone who would park in the guy's driveway, trip going to it, then sue him for their accident. A. I'm not that guy. B. Sometimes in life you gotta take your chances and just be a decent human being even if it bites you.

We go through the same thing with Canal Days every summer. People park in every lot they can find. If someone bitches, unless the car is causing a danger, we tell them it's 2 days a year learn to live with it. If you start towing cars you'll start to lose visitors. Visitors that show up to your community and spend money.
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Old 08-11-17, 12:05 PM   #5
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Re: Homeowners or rental property insurance q.

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Originally Posted by JimRochester View Post
I was at a craft show this past weekend. We set up on the sidewalk and during the day the road is closed and people can walk the street and visit the various craft tents. The house behind us is a small apt building with a retail store out front. The tenants were nice enough to let us park in the parking lot during the day. This makes it so much easier to pack, unpack, and replenish stock vs. parking blocks away. During the day the owner comes by and starts bitching that I am illegally parking on his property and what a liability it is. His insurance doesn't cover me. I explained about the tenants but he said they have no right to do that, they were just being nice. (what's wrong with being nice?) Since the road was closed there was nothing he could do about it. Sunday I parked off sight but I was 2 blocks away. I offered to rent the spot but he said he didn't have a lease(?) for something like that. I just figured I'd throw him a $50 or so for the weekend. Even a $100 would be worth it.

My question. I owned some rental property back in the 80's and don't remember my insurance limiting who can park there. Or the option to have that. I thought everyone has liability insurance that would cover them. Not sure what he thought would happen? Anyone familiar with insurance, can he possibly have such restrictions or was he just being an overly cautious dick? How would you guys approach it for next year? Conveniently forget or contact him in advance with some sort of hold harmless agreement?
I would think it would be no different than a tenant allowing their friend to park on the property for visiting or whatever (doesn't even need to be visiting, just the ok from the friend, even).

But the owner probably just woke up on the wrong side that day. I would say the owner is probably correct, but I'm also pretty sure the owner could have let you park without any additional overwhelming amount of legal liability that otherwise would not be there already.

Offering a "harmless" contract would make things worse, actually. You don't want anything on paper. You could technically be sued (and your insurance company) by the owner's insurance company, and your insurance company might have to defend you in court. A real mess. I've seen it happen. Harmless contracts are picked apart by insurance companies.

Also, the tenant who gives permission...can also be sued, and I've also seen cases where they have been sued by the property owner's insurance company. If the tenant gives permission and in the rental contract it says "Renter cannot give permission", then the owner is not liable. Because the tenant breached the contract.

kvrdave should have some more insight on this.

I don't see a good resolve that would end well on this property. This owner won't negotiate and apparently will be looking for you and looking for those tenants who allowed it. Is there any other place where the owners are more accommodating for special events?
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Old 08-11-17, 12:37 PM   #6
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Re: Homeowners or rental property insurance q.

For such a minor thing it seems like it could be quite a mess. He does have it posted however if it is never enforced that opens another can of worms. If the tenant says we have people over all the time, they park here, he knows about it and never says anything then he can't suddenly jump on their shit for offering me the spot for during the day.

Unless he is there at 9 in the morning next year blocking the driveway, once the road is closed there is nothing he can do about it. The road is closed so no tow truck would be allowed down the street and no police officer is going to help him. There thousands of people walking that street once it closed.

I talked to some other vendors and the other property owners usually give them the space for a nominal fee or even free. I'll have to scope some out for next year. Or maybe I'll just be a dick and try and park there anyway. This was the first year he showed up in 5 years.
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Old 08-11-17, 05:57 PM   #7
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Re: Homeowners or rental property insurance q.

He may have been concerned not about someone breaking into your vehicle, etc., but about liability from a third party possibly being injured by you or your vehicle while on or entering/leaving his property.

That would be my concern were it my property. You injure someone on my property and they sue me because, hey, deep pockets. I'm a landlord and I'll have insurance. And if my insurance doesn't pay up, hey, I'm a landlord... deep pockets, you know, and I can afford it.

Not gonna happen if I can prevent it by telling someone "No. Sorry. Can't park here."

And, fwiw, it's not likely a tenant has any right to give permission to park on property they don't own.
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Old 08-11-17, 06:13 PM   #8
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Re: Homeowners or rental property insurance q.

I ran into something like that once. Mrs Danger was selling in a small craft fair in a restaurant parking lot. The guy who owned the land under the parking lot drove up in a rage and demanded we leave. When we said that the restaurant said that it was okay, he said that it was his land and it wasn't. He wouldn't discuss it.

We left.
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Old 08-11-17, 07:03 PM   #9
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Re: Homeowners or rental property insurance q.

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He may have been concerned not about someone breaking into your vehicle, etc., but about liability from a third party possibly being injured by you or your vehicle while on or entering/leaving his property.

That would be my concern were it my property. You injure someone on my property and they sue me because, hey, deep pockets. I'm a landlord and I'll have insurance. And if my insurance doesn't pay up, hey, I'm a landlord... deep pockets, you know, and I can afford it.

Not gonna happen if I can prevent it by telling someone "No. Sorry. Can't park here."

And, fwiw, it's not likely a tenant has any right to give permission to park on property they don't own.
I certainly understand there is always the possibility of something happening. With 99% of the property owners chalking it up to 2 days a year, this seemed like an overly paranoid douche move. Even without the car there I could still trip on his property. When loading and unloading the police have you utilize the driveways so you are not blocking the road, so the danger when pulling in or out still exists. The only thing it eliminates is the car sitting there. The road is closed from 9:00 am to 6:00 pm so no one can pull onto the road.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Danger View Post
I ran into something like that once. Mrs Danger was selling in a small craft fair in a restaurant parking lot. The guy who owned the land under the parking lot drove up in a rage and demanded we leave. When we said that the restaurant said that it was okay, he said that it was his land and it wasn't. He wouldn't discuss it.

We left.
I know full well the tenant has no legal authority to give permission. However Like Mrs. Danger, someone says it's ok, you don't exactly question their ownership. This was my fifth year doing this show and a tenant had given me permission each time so I had no reason to believe this would be different. He's never shown up before.

Someone else told me the "insurance not covering me" was bullshit. Of course it covers casual parkers. He certainly has the option of allowing parking.
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Old 08-11-17, 07:23 PM   #10
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Re: Homeowners or rental property insurance q.

You should check with the organizers of the craft show to see if they have insurance and what it covers. Most likely it won't cover areas not designated as part of the craft show though but it doesn't hurt to check.
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Old 08-11-17, 09:38 PM   #11
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Re: Homeowners or rental property insurance q.

If its private property, I would assume the owner has the right to not allow anyone to park on the property that he does not want to. Even if I work a 9-5 job and my car would not be in my driveway, I would not want someone parking in it during the time I was not there.

Since the owner has expressly stated he does not want people from the craft show parking there, I would guesss it would be tresspassing to continue do so even if you know you could not be towed because the streets are blocked. If I walk into a store, and there are no employees there, it would not be ok for me to take whatever I want just because there would be noone around to stop the crime.
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Old 08-12-17, 06:44 AM   #12
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Re: Homeowners or rental property insurance q.

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If its private property, I would assume the owner has the right to not allow anyone to park on the property that he does not want to. Even if I work a 9-5 job and my car would not be in my driveway, I would not want someone parking in it during the time I was not there.

Since the owner has expressly stated he does not want people from the craft show parking there, I would guesss it would be tresspassing to continue do so even if you know you could not be towed because the streets are blocked. If I walk into a store, and there are no employees there, it would not be ok for me to take whatever I want just because there would be noone around to stop the crime.
I would never say he didn't have the right. My question was in relation to the reason he gave. Did he man up and give me a valid reason or did he pussy out and blame his insurance?
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Old 08-12-17, 09:45 AM   #13
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Re: Homeowners or rental property insurance q.

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I would never say he didn't have the right. My question was in relation to the reason he gave. Did he man up and give me a valid reason or did he pussy out and blame his insurance?
Leaving your car on someone else's property could create a bailor bailee situation. If keys are given to the property owner they would have more liability. If he accepts money for you to park there he would also have more liability responsibility. If he allows you to park there he still has to exercise due diligence to make sure your car is not damaged while it is on his property. The property may not even be zoned to be used as a "parking garage", so if he were to allow it in that case it could be considered an illegal use of the property therefore the insurace would likely reject any claim for damage.
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Old 08-12-17, 10:33 AM   #14
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Re: Homeowners or rental property insurance q.

Liability under a homeowners policy can be tricky. Typically there are a couple coverage.

Damage to property of others (usually a small amount)
Medical Pay (very low limit like $5,000)
Liability

Under liability there are often two "duties" associated the duty to pay the claimant and the duty to defend the homeowner. They may sound the same, but they are not.

Liability under a home policy will list coverages and items not covered. Typically, "anything" done for business is NOT covered. There is often some very limited coverage. And sometimes you can add endorsements extending to very limited coverage (very small barber shop or day care for example).

It sounds like the guys excuse was BS. It's a pretty complicated matter. But it is his property.
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Old 08-18-17, 08:58 PM   #15
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Re: Homeowners or rental property insurance q.

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Originally Posted by JimRochester View Post
can he possibly have such restrictions or was he just being an overly cautious dick?
It's his private property, he can do whatever* he wants. If you return, you may even get the tenants in trouble.
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