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Old 08-06-17, 05:57 AM   #1
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Girls' Softball Team Booted From World Series for Bird Flipping

And, no, the 12-14 year-old females were not tossing sea gulls around in the outfield.

https://sports.yahoo.com/little-leag...212434926.html

This seems a better place to post than the "sports thread" since it doesn't involve well-known athletes and it addresses behavior not (entirely) sports-related.

While not condoning shooting middle fingers in general, I'm puzzled by the actions based upon the photo. The article gives a general interpretation of the intent, but the photo itself just shows them in the dugout flipping toward the camera...not toward the other team or individuals. How can this be judged as "unsportsmanlike conduct?" The article explains that the team was unhappy about their treatment by the host team and the comments section mentions that a coach or two from the other team were ejected during the game for cheating. So the article suggests that it "explains" the response but doesn't justify it. Still, if they didn't publicly do it or comment about why they did it, how does that justify disqualifying them from the tournament?



Here's the team:



Here's their post-win celebration:

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Last edited by creekdipper; 08-06-17 at 06:56 AM.
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Old 08-06-17, 07:07 AM   #2
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Re: Girls' Softball Team Booted From World Series for Bird Flipping

Punishing a whole group for the actions of a few? Isn't that called "collective punishment" and a war crime?
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Old 08-06-17, 07:10 AM   #3
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Re: Girls' Softball Team Booted From World Series for Bird Flipping

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Originally Posted by OldDude View Post
Punishing a whole group for the actions of a few? Isn't that called "collective punishment" and a war crime?
In fairness, there are only 12 girls on the team (judging by several team photos), so if half the team were disqualified, they'd have to forfeit.

Unless the rules have been changed to allow them to play with only no outfield.
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Old 08-06-17, 09:18 AM   #4
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Re: Girls' Softball Team Booted From World Series for Bird Flipping

They are not even using proper form. You don't stick your thumb out.
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Old 08-06-17, 10:18 AM   #5
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Re: Girls' Softball Team Booted From World Series for Bird Flipping

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Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
In fairness, there are only 12 girls on the team (judging by several team photos), so if half the team were disqualified, they'd have to forfeit.

Unless the rules have been changed to allow them to play with only no outfield.
Haven't read the article yet, but "this." I believe Little League rosters for the World Series are set at 12-14 players.

I am not licensed/patched/certified (whatever term you want to use) in Little League (I think the closest organization is about an hour away and they try not to pay umpires), but the organizations I am licensed in are all the same with that rule: You can can finish a game with 8 players if you have an injury or illness, but you must have 9 to start a game.

I'll weigh in more after I have time to read the article.
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Old 08-06-17, 10:31 AM   #6
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Re: Girls' Softball Team Booted From World Series for Bird Flipping

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They are not even using proper form. You don't stick your thumb out.
Maybe they're throwing gang signs.
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Old 08-06-17, 11:03 AM   #7
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Re: Girls' Softball Team Booted From World Series for Bird Flipping

Why is the pic above edited but the one on the article is not?

Banning the girls in the pic would be the proper response, but since that would disqualify the entire team anyway, then it's a non-starter.

Also update already:
Quote:
Jamie Batten, the president of Atlee Little League, released a statement late Saturday night about the softball team's disqualification due to an inappropriate Snapchat post.

"We are deeply disappointed this social media post did not reflect the core values of Little League International or Atlee Little League," he wrote. "We expect Little League International will take the time to fully investigate the matter, and we will comply with this investigation by providing all information about unpleasant interactions including the social media post and the time leading up to that event - not all of which were on the part of those on the Atlee softball team.

"We desire to protect all youth who are recipients of inappropriate behavior both on and off the field, as we take very seriously our charge to impart the value of good sportsmanship."
Umm, what investigation? It's a picture. Pretty clear cut there, Sherlock.
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Old 08-06-17, 11:04 AM   #8
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Re: Girls' Softball Team Booted From World Series for Bird Flipping

I agree, this is a war crime.
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Old 08-06-17, 11:50 AM   #9
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Re: Girls' Softball Team Booted From World Series for Bird Flipping

I coach youth sports. The first thing we tell the kids is, "You represent yourself, your family, your school, and your community. Your behavior must be of the highest standard."

Furthermore, the girls won the game. Being a sore winner is probably the worst thing you can do.

I'd personally bench my kid even if the sanctioning body did nothing.

Lastly, proper behavior on social media needs to be taught and enforced. Each of those girls probably has a statistically greater possibility of making further asses of themselves online in a manner that could cause even greater distress in their lives.
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Old 08-06-17, 11:54 AM   #10
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Re: Girls' Softball Team Booted From World Series for Bird Flipping

Good. They're lucky they weren't banned from the sport for a few years--maybe they will be after reading a few articles.

A stupid act, and extremely rude to visiting opponents.
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Old 08-06-17, 03:26 PM   #11
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Re: Girls' Softball Team Booted From World Series for Bird Flipping

Excellent, and a most appropriate form of punishment. Like Financial management, Social Media etiquette needs to be taught. I suppose from kindergarten onward. Maybe a section on "good sportsmanship" and how it will get you far in life...

We need a new "Modern Problems" course, an updated one of the type my Grandmother took in high school / jr. high 85 years ago. They stopped offering those around 1955, but they need to start again for contemporary kids.
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Old 08-06-17, 08:10 PM   #12
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Re: Girls' Softball Team Booted From World Series for Bird Flipping

I think this is fucking hilarious I did shit like this as a kid, but the difference is that we didn't have social media (or the Internet), so it didn't get the coverage this has.

I.e., if this had happened in anytime prior to the advent of the Internet (or at least high-speed Internet) and social media, this would have been a picture someone took & passed around - and maybe the kids would still have gotten trouble over this. But, it wouldn't have been all over the national news.
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Old 08-06-17, 08:23 PM   #13
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Re: Girls' Softball Team Booted From World Series for Bird Flipping

One stupid printed photo shared among friends is very different than blasting your arrogance/stupidity to millions of people, coaches, parents, etc.
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Old 08-06-17, 08:27 PM   #14
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Re: Girls' Softball Team Booted From World Series for Bird Flipping

If President Trump has shown us anything it is that you shouldn't be held accountable for your actions. Let them play.
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Old 08-06-17, 08:32 PM   #15
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Re: Girls' Softball Team Booted From World Series for Bird Flipping

I think a DQ for that is stupid. Far too harsh of a punishment.
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Old 08-06-17, 08:38 PM   #16
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Re: Girls' Softball Team Booted From World Series for Bird Flipping

I'd normally think they should get more than one game, but since it's the title game that should be enough of a lesson.
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Old 08-06-17, 09:24 PM   #17
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Re: Girls' Softball Team Booted From World Series for Bird Flipping

A just punishment, from what I can see.
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Old 08-07-17, 12:07 PM   #18
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Re: Girls' Softball Team Booted From World Series for Bird Flipping

Huh, typical behavior for Mechanicsville, kids and adults.

But yeah, this is unsportsmanlike conduct, rules against which are actually enforced at that age.
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Old 08-07-17, 12:26 PM   #19
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Re: Girls' Softball Team Booted From World Series for Bird Flipping

Bird flipping is a gateway to smoking weed and teen pregnancy, I say send them to jail now!!!
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Old 08-07-17, 04:42 PM   #20
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Re: Girls' Softball Team Booted From World Series for Bird Flipping

Quote:
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Huh, typical behavior for Mechanicsville, kids and adults.

But yeah, this is unsportsmanlike conduct, rules against which are actually enforced at that age.
And of course being from Alaska means you actually have any indication of how people are in Mechanicsville. Guess you know who killed Kennedy and know where Hoffa is buried right.
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Old 08-07-17, 05:15 PM   #21
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Re: Girls' Softball Team Booted From World Series for Bird Flipping

Born and raised not one hour distant from Mechanicsville, sport. Left for college, returned, left for the Army, and been back to visit family (several of whom live in Mechanicsville) many times over the years.

But you seem to know I'm from Alaska and didn't merely move here nine years ago. So you tell me, who killed Kennedy and where is Hoffa buried?
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Old 08-07-17, 06:04 PM   #22
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Re: Girls' Softball Team Booted From World Series for Bird Flipping

This is why we have Gitmo, capital punishment, and that oil rig prison in Face/Off.
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Old 08-07-17, 07:04 PM   #23
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Re: Girls' Softball Team Booted From World Series for Bird Flipping

In defense of GCS (who might have a connection to Mechanicsville too), I did make a sweeping negative generalization.

My apologies, man.

At least the girls weren't from somewhere in Henrico County. They might have skipped the birds and gone straight to shooting somebody.
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Old 08-08-17, 06:55 AM   #24
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Re: Girls' Softball Team Booted From World Series for Bird Flipping

^ ^ ^

If you're into making sweeping generalizations, you can throw in that cheating, dishonesty, and rude behavior is typical behavior for anyone...children or adults...residing in Kirkland.

If "unsportsmanlike conduct" is the justification for the DQ, seems that the other team would also have been DQ'd from the championship since two managers/coaches were ejected from the game with Atlee for stealing signs. That was an offense that had a direct effect on the actual game, so you can be the judge about which offense was worse. Additionally, the cheating offense was committed by the adults in charge of the team...who (presumably) ought to be held more accountable than 12-14 year olds.

If the Little League were being consistent, they would have barred both teams from advancing, and the other team would have won by default. That would have been a major embarrassment, of course, as well as canceling a prime appearance on ESPN. Can't have that.

Surely there was some other form of discipline for the offense...excluding the team from post-tournament ceremony (for instance, just allowing a representative to receive trophy), banquets, parade, etc. Or withholding individual awards (medals, etc.). Something other than the drastic equivalent of the "death penalty" in sports. After, all, cheaters got to prosper by advancing to the title game, even after losing despite the cheating by their coaches.

One thing another article reported was that the coach had the post deleted as soon as he became aware of its existence, and the entire team went in person to apologize to the other team. That bit of humble pie may not have been sufficient discipline (see other suggestions above), but it was an important gesture.

I coached girls' teams in three sports for 12 years, and I wouldn't have agreed with the banning of an opposing team who did that even though I enforced very strict rules about behavior, grades, school attendance, practice attendance and behavior, fair play, treatment of teammates, behavior in class, etc. If people think that kids much younger than these kids don't soak up vulgarities in their exposure to popular and social media and don't hear/see it every day, they should listen in on some second-graders sometime. You don't have to condone behavior to make the punishment proportionate to the offense. Some people commenting on the situation wanted to see the coaches fired and the players banned from any future participation in Little League.
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Old 08-08-17, 08:38 AM   #25
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Re: Girls' Softball Team Booted From World Series for Bird Flipping

If you coached Creek, maybe you know... My sister used to play (in very-rural PA). All I remember is how awful the parents are at those things. It's like tourettes with those people. Some of those sports parents are out of their minds.

Looking back, I feel bad for the kids who have to be raised by parents like that.

In that sense, the middle finger seems very tame.
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