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Old 04-18-15, 03:10 PM   #101
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
The whole concept seems pretty shady.
Shady, but par for the course with any business these days. It just means that we as comsumers must really do our homework (= work out the numbers completely) before making the purchase. We need to become more savvy comsumers in general. This type of thing is why knowing basic math and mental arithmetic is really important!

Decker, that self-valeting seems very neat. So, we're more than halfway there already with goal of the Tesla being a self-drivable car if it can park itself, retrieve itself, and maintain a (crash-free?) course in a single lane on the highway!

Congrats again on your purchase. With the 1/2 rate charging, the cost to keep it charged should be quite affordable, certainly less than purchasing gas...
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Old 04-18-15, 08:02 PM   #102
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

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The saving grace of all this will be *when* those Supercharging stations are truly and ubiquitously as available as regular gas stations. If Tesla can manage that level of infrastructure, then they'll sell their cars, even at $75k+ especially in Calif. which has the highest electricity costs in the nation. When I can actually drive across the country for "free" and not have *any* worry of being stranded or having to go hundreds of miles astray to get to a charging station, then I'll gladly purchase a Tesla.
I wish I could see a roll-out plan, because the one long distance trip I take regularly (to/from Joplin) has me looking at nearly 300 miles of I-44 once I get past St Louis. If I had regular trips to South Dakota I'd be golden, but I don't.
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Old 04-18-15, 10:20 PM   #103
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

That link I posted shows plans for a lot more in MO in 2016 (you click the year above the map to see the roll out plan).
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Old 04-18-15, 11:18 PM   #104
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

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What's the rationale behind such high electricity prices? Deficit reduction? Conservation? Of course it hits poor people the hardest.
zyzzle's probably including all the fees, etc. My parents live in Riverside County, and the last time I visited in summer, I had to run the AC 24/7. It resulted in a $600 electricity bill, which was far higher than normal for them.
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Old 04-18-15, 11:49 PM   #105
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

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zyzzle's probably including all the fees, etc. My parents live in Riverside County, and the last time I visited in summer, I had to run the AC 24/7. It resulted in a $600 electricity bill, which was far higher than normal for them.
Could be. The rates I cited for Ontario don't include the "Delivery Charge" (roughly $100/month), the "Debt Retirement Charge", which will itself soon be retired, and some other fee, which name I can't remember. Of the $750 bi-monthly bill I mentioned above, about $300 was non-usage-related.
Regular summers here also often require constant AC usage to keep the suffocating humidity bearable, unless it's an atrociously cool, wet summer like last year's.
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Old 04-21-15, 10:37 AM   #106
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

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I called my salesman today...
He also said that since the announcement of the 70D they haven't sold a single 85 in the Vegas dealership. That doesn't surprise me since it's AWD, just as fast and $5000 less than the 85. I expect that model to be phased out soon.
That didn't take long - they've now removed the 85 RWD from their website. There are now just three models of the car, the $75,000 70D, the $85,000 85D and the $105,000 P85D. All with the identical trim.

My order goes final today. I ended up not changing anything and went with :

All-Wheel Drive
Titanium Metallic Paint
Body Color Roof
19" Wheels
Tan Next Generation Seats
Piano Black Décor
Textile Headliner
Autopilot Convenience

I really liked the Premium Sound System but that's another $2500 which I can't swing. And even then you can't do XM radio without the $1500 Panoramic Sunroof option as well (which turns the car into a greenhouse in the Summer).
Anyway, I'll be getting a VIN and more definitive delivery window soon. I'm hoping for early June. Looks like the 70D model has really spurred on sales.

Oh yeah, I was looking forward to having the first Tesla at my hospital but this morning I get there before 7 and there's a brand new Black P85D with the $4500 21" Grey Turbine wheels parked all by itself at the far side of the Doctor's Lot. Damn surgeons!

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Old 04-21-15, 12:30 PM   #107
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

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Oh yeah, I was looking forward to having the first Tesla at my hospital but this morning I get there before 7 and there's a brand new Black P85D with the $4500 21" Grey Turbine wheels parked all by itself at the far side of the Doctor's Lot. Damn surgeons!

It would be worse if it was an O.R. nurse; they make bank, too.
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Old 04-21-15, 12:34 PM   #108
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

That would be a LOT worse! They shouldn't even be parking in the Doctor's lot (but I know they do).
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Old 04-21-15, 12:36 PM   #109
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

I hope Tesla "makes it". I get that their business model is a little shaky and Elon Musk couldn't care less about the financials... but that's one of the main things I like about them

Love seeing Wall Street get all pissy about some kid that cares more about the tech than the money (which he's had hand over fist since his PayPal days)
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Old 04-21-15, 02:28 PM   #110
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

It just amazes me that the #1 car that everyone is talking about is made in America. I never thought that would happen again.
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Old 04-21-15, 03:06 PM   #111
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

That is cool actually. I haven't owned an American car in 18 years. What's extra-cool is that it's an American car that's having an impact on the top of the Luxury car market - an area that with the sole exception of Cadillac (and maybe the gas-guzzling Lincoln Navigator) there hasn't been much of an American car presence at all.

I'm old enough to remember when the DeLorean came out. I remember how excited folks were that an upstart could challenge the "Big Three". That didn't work out so well, but back in the day I loved the car. I even got my dad to go on a test drive once. Then he noted that the entire window didn't roll all the way down and he had no interest in it, which was pretty fortunate as it turned out.
After that monumental failure, I don't think anyone thought another individual could build a car line in the United States that would be competitive and successful. I was pretty surprised and slightly disappointed that Time Magazine didn't include Elon Musk in the Time 100 (Okay, they didn't ignore him completely, they had him write the cover story profile on Kanye West -- but that's even worse).
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Old 04-21-15, 03:18 PM   #112
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

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I hope Tesla "makes it". I get that their business model is a little shaky and Elon Musk couldn't care less about the financials... but that's one of the main things I like about them
I like the Model S a great deal, but I percieve Tesla's business model as an indefensible taxpayer-funded slush fund designed to help sell subsidized luxury items to rich people. The innovation might pay off in the long run, but right now we're simply lining the pockets of people who need it least with Tesla.

/politics.
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Old 04-21-15, 03:37 PM   #113
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

Curious if this is going to be your daily driver Decker? I have seen alot of press about Tesla, and I would consider a lower priced option from them, if/when it became available, but right now it couldn't be my only car. The range doesn't work for me. Additionally, the "being able to drive across country" with their cars doesn't really work yet. For example, there dont seem to be any charging stations on route 80 East of Toledo, Ohio. In my local area, they redid all the highway rest areas, and put in the chargers at each one. Off the highway there dont seem to be any charging stations available however.
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Old 04-21-15, 03:42 PM   #114
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

Yeah, it'll be my daily ride. I'm selling my G35 for the down payment so except my wife's minivan, it'll be our only car.
It has a 240 mile range - you drive more than that on a daily basis?
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Old 04-21-15, 07:42 PM   #115
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

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Originally Posted by Decker View Post
That didn't take long - they've now removed the 85 RWD from their website. There are now just three models of the car, the $75,000 70D, the $85,000 85D and the $105,000 P85D. All with the identical trim.

My order goes final today. I ended up not changing anything and went with :

All-Wheel Drive
Titanium Metallic Paint
Body Color Roof
19" Wheels
Tan Next Generation Seats
Piano Black Décor
Textile Headliner
Autopilot Convenience

:
:


Be sure to ask the dealership if the Autopilot Convenience software was made from engineers in Malaysia and/or Germany.
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Old 04-21-15, 08:12 PM   #116
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

IIRC, Elon Musk said that the $30/35k price of the low end model will be "before incentives", but naturally he didn't say whether or not that was before the estimated gas savings.
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Old 04-22-15, 08:10 AM   #117
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

Am I missing the price on the "X" model? You can pre-order with deposit. I'd like to know the price before pre-ordering. Another tip from CRM114's Guide to Life.

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BAnd that brings me to why I think Tesla will own the market for a long time to come : Range. Without the network of Superchargers, you're tethered to a maximum or about a 200 mile trip (and that's assuming you end up at a hotel or something where you can charge your car overnight). The true genius of Tesla (or one of them anyways) is the network of Superchargers free and readily available exclusively to Tesla owners that makes the entire country traversable (for free) by electric vehicle.
The entire country? I could not drive from Philadelphia to Pittsburgh.
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Old 04-22-15, 08:24 AM   #118
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

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Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
I like the Model S a great deal, but I percieve Tesla's business model as an indefensible taxpayer-funded slush fund designed to help sell subsidized luxury items to rich people. The innovation might pay off in the long run, but right now we're simply lining the pockets of people who need it least with Tesla.

/politics.
It seems to me Tesla needs Apple. No, I don't want to see an Apple car or have Apple have anything to do with Tesla really. I want Tesla to have access to Apple's cash reserves. Apple basically takes its huge cache of cash and bankrolls mass production of low cost Teslas. Demand grows, production grows until price is low enough to make sense for almost everyone. Apple pays back it's reserves.

Obviously, I'm not a corporate guy. It sounds good though.

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Yeah, it'll be my daily ride. I'm selling my G35 for the down payment so except my wife's minivan, it'll be our only car.
It has a 240 mile range - you drive more than that on a daily basis?

I drive 8 miles to work. I could definitely live with a Tesla and am strongly considering one. But it does kind of rule out any sort of road trip or taking it on vacation. BTW, you are getting a Tesla while your wife drives a minivan?

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IIRC, Elon Musk said that the $30/35k price of the low end model will be "before incentives", but naturally he didn't say whether or not that was before the estimated gas savings.
Even if it is with the "gas savings" that's a $45K car which is pretty much the standard going rate for any mid range luxury car. But if you look at Tesla's site, you have to add another $10K to get it to the level of a standard midrange luxury car (audio, seating, winter package, etc).
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Old 04-22-15, 08:29 AM   #119
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

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IIRC, Elon Musk said that the $30/35k price of the low end model will be "before incentives", but naturally he didn't say whether or not that was before the estimated gas savings.
At that price, you start competing for every person driving around in a lower-end BMW, Mercedes, Cadillac, etc. Those companies should be very afraid. And hopefully they don't create problems for Tesla. They should work on their own lower-cost electric vehicles.
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Old 04-22-15, 08:38 AM   #120
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

If the current cheapo Model S is $75K, a $30K Tesla is going to be a major step down.
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Old 04-22-15, 09:14 AM   #121
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

I dunno, that depends on technology progression and being able to make the same technology at a lesser cost.
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Old 04-22-15, 10:43 AM   #122
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

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I drive 8 miles to work. I could definitely live with a Tesla and am strongly considering one. But it does kind of rule out any sort of road trip or taking it on vacation. BTW, you are getting a Tesla while your wife drives a minivan?
That's a FULLY LOADED 2013 Honda Odyssey thank you very much!
I actually told her she could have any car she wanted, but this is what she wanted. There are some nice luxury SUVs out there, but she doesn't like them, she likes minivans. She did look at the fully decked-out Ford Flex wagon and liked it, but thought it was too expensive. So you can imagine how long it's been to get her aboard the Tesla bandwagon.
Quote:

Even if it is with the "gas savings" that's a $45K car which is pretty much the standard going rate for any mid range luxury car. But if you look at Tesla's site, you have to add another $10K to get it to the level of a standard midrange luxury car (audio, seating, winter package, etc).
At first they were nickle-and-diming you on everything with the car, but now with the exception of leather seats (still not standard in even the $105,000 model), they're pretty generous with the standard features on even the base model. You get GPS with auto-update, emergency braking, lane-departure warning, parking sensors, auto-folding, heated rear view mirrors, keyless entry with retracting door handles and a ton more. I don't see that sort of stuff standard on the BMW and Lexus models in the same price range.
That said I'm still a little bummed out I'm not getting the Ultra High Fidelity Premium Sound System, but it's an extra $2500 (and I still wouldn't be able to use XM since I don't want the glass roof). I listened to the 7-speaker base system and while it's not mind-blowing, I think it's good enough for me. Sounded fine, if not as rich and full as the Bose system I have in my current Infiniti. Gotta draw the line somewhere.

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At that price, you start competing for every person driving around in a lower-end BMW, Mercedes, Cadillac, etc. Those companies should be very afraid. And hopefully they don't create problems for Tesla. They should work on their own lower-cost electric vehicles.
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If the current cheapo Model S is $75K, a $30K Tesla is going to be a major step down.
Another problem Tesla will have if they bring the car down that price range is that folks will have to wait hours to recharge their cars at a Supercharger station. That won't sit well with me or other folks who paid an arm and a leg to buy their cars. I assume they'll come up with a solution, but it will be interesting to see what they do if they bring the price down significantly
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Old 04-22-15, 11:11 AM   #123
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

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Another problem Tesla will have if they bring the car down that price range is that folks will have to wait hours to recharge their cars at a Supercharger station. That won't sit well with me or other folks who paid an arm and a leg to buy their cars. I assume they'll come up with a solution, but it will be interesting to see what they do if they bring the price down significantly
I'm assuming the biggest cost in setting up the supercharger network is securing the locations and installing the underlying infrastructure. Have to imagine they are scalable, and when stations start hitting a target usage they can simply drop additional chargers in. I mean after all, what good is a supercharger if you have to wait an hour to use one.

Got to say, this thread actually made me check out Tesla's website for the first time and do some reading about their cars/technology. I'd seen them on the road before but never really gave the brand much consideration. While I'm not in the market for a 75k car, I am intrigued by the prospect of a 35k car that looks great, has amazing technology and gets 200+ miles on its rechargeable battery. At present I drive 20 miles round trip to work each day, and take a 60 mile round trip drive every couple of weekends. Seems like the Model III would work for me. That said, I keep my car in a pay garage so the recharging could be an issue..
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Old 04-22-15, 11:18 AM   #124
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

A lot of people don't like leather seats for some reason. Mercedes uses faux leather with real leather an upgrade. This was attractive to my wife who wrestled with this being a vegan. She then decided to go leather since she's primarily a vegan for health reasons and not political reasons. That faux leather Mercedes has almost pulled her away from Lexus. I'm pretty sure her Lexus covers all the features you listed with the exception of the door handles and auto braking.

Question: Do the heated steering wheel an seats, etc suck the battery down or are those things running off some sort of generated power while driving?
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Old 04-22-15, 11:40 AM   #125
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

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Could be. The rates I cited for Ontario don't include the "Delivery Charge" (roughly $100/month), the "Debt Retirement Charge", which will itself soon be retired, and some other fee, which name I can't remember. Of the $750 bi-monthly bill I mentioned above, about $300 was non-usage-related.
Regular summers here also often require constant AC usage to keep the suffocating humidity bearable, unless it's an atrociously cool, wet summer like last year's.
Yeah we had the "Pension Rate Rider" for years to top up employee pensions to cover their liability. Never could figure out how that one was allowed by the regulator.
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