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Old 08-20-17, 07:33 AM   #801
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Re: Tesla and other Electric Cars Talk

For me, being electric is the least interesting thing about the Tesla.

To me Telsa represents the first "new" car in decades. Let's also not forget it's amazingly capable (to say the least) with the the higher end models being among the fastest cars available at any cost.

I bought my first car in in 15 years (I travel for work so I always had rentals). I got a new Jeep Wrangler. Delivered Sept 2015, for a 2016 model. I've paid it off and while I've made a few minor mods, debating on keeping or getting a new one. Or keeping it and buying a 2nd small "luxury" car like an A3. But the new Telsa is getting in that same price range....

But focusing on the Telsa being electric, would be like focusing on my a Wrangler being a convertible. IMO
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Old 08-20-17, 09:18 AM   #802
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Re: Tesla and other Electric Cars Talk

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Originally Posted by zyzzle View Post
Well, I'd die and go to heaven if my electric rates were anywhere near $0.04 per kwhr, or even the $0.09 which is (erroneously, falsely, and misleadingly) reported on your PDF from Southern Calif. Edison. But, your point is well taken. All I know is my current bill for July '17 from SCE was $115.23 for a total consumption of 298 Kwhr. $115.23 / 298 = 38.6 cents per kilowatt hour, a far, far cry from $0.09 or 0.04. And I'm only on Tier 2 rates due to "low" consumption.


But, if SCE is willing to give me electricity for $0.09 per Kwhr anytime soon, I'm totally buying a Tesla 3 and loving every second of it!

I don't mind the inconvenience of pumping gas, it's just something I've done like shaving, grooming myself for so many years that it's second nature.
There are special rates in both NV and CA ( and I assume most if not all other states) for those with EVs. If you had an EV, you would qualify for the special EV rate. I just looked up the So Cal EV rate -- why did you say it was "erroneously, falsely, and misleadingly reported"? It is the current rate per So Cal Edison, and one of the many benefits of owning an electric vehicle.

Remember also that in NV those low rates are, during the Summer, only 10P-6A. You set up your car to charge in these times, but if you're smart and plan ahead, you can also save $$$ by putting your dishwasher, washing machine and pool pump to run during those times instead of during the day as well.
In CA it looks like it's those rates all day.
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Old 08-20-17, 09:34 AM   #803
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Re: Tesla and other Electric Cars Talk

I also like how stripped-down the Model 3 is. With cars, I find that the more options you have, the more likely your car is to break. So my newest thing is that upgrades are a turnoff, and I prefer the most basic version of the car the manufacturer provides.
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Old 08-20-17, 09:36 AM   #804
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Re: Tesla and other Electric Cars Talk

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Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post
For me, being electric is the least interesting thing about the Tesla.

To me Telsa represents the first "new" car in decades. Let's also not forget it's amazingly capable (to say the least) with the the higher end models being among the fastest cars available at any cost.

I bought my first car in in 15 years (I travel for work so I always had rentals). I got a new Jeep Wrangler. Delivered Sept 2015, for a 2016 model. I've paid it off and while I've made a few minor mods, debating on keeping or getting a new one. Or keeping it and buying a 2nd small "luxury" car like an A3. But the new Telsa is getting in that same price range....

But focusing on the Telsa being electric, would be like focusing on my a Wrangler being a convertible. IMO
Here's the thing though : So many things that are great about the car are BECAUSE it's electric :
  • It takes off from a dead stop like a rocket because it has no gears because it's electric.
  • You can floor it without making a loud and cop-alerting roar because it's electric.
  • You have tons of room on the inside because there's no transmission because it's electric.
  • It's an incredibly quiet ride because it's electric.
  • It can run the air conditioner automatically for you to cool the car down before you get in because it's electric.
  • You can use the Summon feature and back the car out automatically to meet you because it's electric.
  • It has a much higher safety rating in front impact crashes because there's no engine to encroach into the driver's compartment because it's electric.
  • You have some additional storage in the front and tons in the back because there's no engine because it's electric.
  • You have an incredibly stable low center of gravity in the car, holding it stable on the road because the weight is evenly distributed over the entire length of the car by a series of batteries rather than a heavy engine in the front because it's electric.
  • You can hang out in the car in the garage and crank the air conditioning and listen to music loud on the stereo because it's electric.

And none of that even mentions that it's better for the environment, WAY cheaper to operate and while you may not THINK that going to buy gas 1-2 times a week is a big deal, never doing it is SO MUCH BETTER that not doing it any more will rocket to your #1 reason within a month.
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Old 08-20-17, 06:04 PM   #805
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Re: Tesla and other Electric Cars Talk

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Originally Posted by Decker View Post
There are special rates in both NV and CA ( and I assume most if not all other states) for those with EVs. If you had an EV, you would qualify for the special EV rate. I just looked up the So Cal EV rate -- why did you say it was "erroneously, falsely, and misleadingly reported"? It is the current rate per So Cal Edison, and one of the many benefits of owning an electric vehicle.
It's misleading because it is only the rate for Generation (and, less taxes, fees, fixed charges, "minimum use charges, etc"). Nobody ever lists the total cost, which equals Generation + Distribution (which is a fixed rate per kwhr, regardless of what tier, EV rate, or plan you're on). So, Generation may be 9 cents, but the rub is the fixed Distribution cost of 18.7 cents per kwhr (as is listed on my bill, for example). So, that's how their reported cost is wantonly incorrect. At least my bill actually breaks these costs down, so it's easy to add them up and see the REAL cost.

And all the reasons you list about "going electric" are so true, and to me most of the allure as well. I like streamlined. Fewer moving parts usually means longer life and fewer things to break later on.

I think Tesla (finally) got it right with the 3. We'll see how expeditiously it is able to fill the orders and maintain customer satisfaction. Hopefully they don't start cutting corners to achieve faster production.
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Old 08-22-17, 02:57 AM   #806
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Re: Tesla and other Electric Cars Talk

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Originally Posted by Decker View Post
Here's the thing though : So many things that are great about the car are BECAUSE it's electric :
  • It takes off from a dead stop like a rocket because it has no gears because it's electric.
  • You can floor it without making a loud and cop-alerting roar because it's electric.
  • You have tons of room on the inside because there's no transmission because it's electric.
  • It's an incredibly quiet ride because it's electric.
  • It can run the air conditioner automatically for you to cool the car down before you get in because it's electric.
  • You can use the Summon feature and back the car out automatically to meet you because it's electric.
  • It has a much higher safety rating in front impact crashes because there's no engine to encroach into the driver's compartment because it's electric.
  • You have some additional storage in the front and tons in the back because there's no engine because it's electric.
  • You have an incredibly stable low center of gravity in the car, holding it stable on the road because the weight is evenly distributed over the entire length of the car by a series of batteries rather than a heavy engine in the front because it's electric.
  • You can hang out in the car in the garage and crank the air conditioning and listen to music loud on the stereo because it's electric.

And none of that even mentions that it's better for the environment, WAY cheaper to operate and while you may not THINK that going to buy gas 1-2 times a week is a big deal, never doing it is SO MUCH BETTER that not doing it any more will rocket to your #1 reason within a month.
Let me clarify; it's not the fact it's electric in an of itself that is of significant interest to me. We already have a spat of electric cars. And we have seen electric cars before.

It is absolutely the multiple, advanced technology that make this completely different than any of car we have seen. Electric or other.

Yes, I'm absolutely amazed at the what the vehicle can do with speed, handling, luxury, storage, comfort, autonomous, etc, etc. some of which is a result of advances in electric technology but to me more the bigger picture of completely looking at cars in a different way than have been done before.

Plus, I'm kind of rooting for the guy. In the past, recent past and even currently, car makers are being like Kodak. They know about new technology and know they should be creating new products. But they can't pull away from the profits they have and continue to make. In some cases very large profits. At some point, some or all will pivot and give Tesla a run for its money. But here again, I'm impressed. Dude is getting involved in other areas with his technology. To continue the comparison, he is being more like Fuji Film which unlike Kodak diversified in to many other areas outsider consumer film and paper.

Well, I won't discount the idea of not buying gas or the savings there in. But after 15 years of not owning any vehicle, I bought a Jeep Wrangler (think about 18 mpg) and then slapped bigger tires (and smaller wheels) on it which has reduced my mpg to closer to 16. If I got a Tesla which could be it what, 2019 at the earliest, it would be in addition to a Wrangler. I love that thing....lol
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Old 08-22-17, 05:02 PM   #807
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Re: Tesla and other Electric Cars Talk

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Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post
.

Plus, I'm kind of rooting for the guy. In the past, recent past and even currently, car makers are being like Kodak. They know about new technology and know they should be creating new products. But they can't pull away from the profits they have and continue to make. In some cases very large profits. At some point, some or all will pivot and give Tesla a run for its money. But here again, I'm impressed. Dude is getting involved in other areas with his technology. To continue the comparison, he is being more like Fuji Film which unlike Kodak diversified in to many other areas outsider consumer film and paper.
Great analogy. There is so much inertia -- AKA "business as usual" in the automotive industry that it is hideous. I'm rooting for Musk not in the business / profit-making sense, but in the sense that he'll have the effect of convincing many other people in power and other high positions that his way *makes more sense* in light of doing good for mankind / the planet / the environment, etc. The business part is secondary, and should come as a reward for doing something better than it has been done for decades.

Musk is one of the only people who can challenge BIG OIL and make a dent. Solar power makes sense. Disconnecting completely from the grid (and severing ties to the GREEDY power companies) makes all the sense in the world. God speed, Mr. Musk in making that happen. It might help if he is a little better speaker and less cavalier, but he'll find a good team and stick with it...
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Old 09-08-17, 09:58 AM   #808
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Re: Tesla and other Electric Cars Talk

I had to drive down to Tampa this past weekend for an event and my wife suggested I see if I could rent a Tesla, seeing as how I've got a reservation for a Model 3 next summer but have never driven an electric vehicle outside of a 5 minute test drive about 3 years ago in a Model S and another short one in a Volt a few months ago.

So I rented a Model S P85 for a day and drove back and forth from Orlando. (With a referral coupon, got one for $190 including insurance from Turo and had a friend ride with me and chip in for a chunk of it.)

WOW. I mean, if I could afford to spend $55k on a used Model S right now I'd buy one right this second. What an amazing vehicle to drive. The acceleration was just incredible, and this wasn't even a Ludicrous mode car.

Granted my primary car is a tiny little economy Chevy sedan so any luxury vehicle would have been a huge step up, but I fell in love with the Tesla and it reaffirmed my decision to buy a Model 3.
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Old 09-09-17, 06:14 AM   #809
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Re: Tesla and other Electric Cars Talk

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WOW. I mean, if I could afford to spend $55k on a used Model S right now I'd buy one right this second. What an amazing vehicle to drive. The acceleration was just incredible, and this wasn't even a Ludicrous mode car.
Used Model S goes for only $55k, ie the cost of what will be a fully loaded Model 3?

Aren't you off by about $50k or so? Unless you're talking about some junker S with body damage and 100k miles on it or something?
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Old 09-09-17, 07:12 AM   #810
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Re: Tesla and other Electric Cars Talk

https://teslainventory.com
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Old 09-09-17, 08:34 AM   #811
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Re: Tesla and other Electric Cars Talk

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Originally Posted by zyzzle View Post
Used Model S goes for only $55k, ie the cost of what will be a fully loaded Model 3?

Aren't you off by about $50k or so? Unless you're talking about some junker S with body damage and 100k miles on it or something?
Not at all. For instance, a used Model S 60 with 26,000 miles is about $52k. https://www.tesla.com/used/5YJSA1S12EFP33869

Last week when I checked there was a S75 with 44,000 miles for $55k.
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Old 09-09-17, 03:32 PM   #812
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Re: Tesla and other Electric Cars Talk

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Not at all. For instance, a used Model S 60 with 26,000 miles is about $52k. https://www.tesla.com/used/5YJSA1S12EFP33869

Last week when I checked there was a S75 with 44,000 miles for $55k.
I had no idea... Those are deals, especially if the lifetime supercharging status is transferable on those used Model S'es. Is that the case? I guess even Teslas have the normal depreciation factor.

Almost makes sense to get a used S intead of a loaded Model 3, but I guess there is no automous driving capability either now or in the future with pre-2015 used Model S?
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Old 09-09-17, 03:44 PM   #813
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Re: Tesla and other Electric Cars Talk

That's correct. It needs the camera they added in 2015 for Autopilot. For future total autonomous driving it needs the multiple cameras they added in late 2016.
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Old 09-10-17, 02:22 PM   #814
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Re: Tesla and other Electric Cars Talk

My housemate just bought a Model S 75. I didn't have time to get a test drive, but I sat in the front passenger seat. It was pretty nice.
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Old 09-15-17, 10:17 PM   #815
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Re: Tesla and other Electric Cars Talk

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Old 09-16-17, 07:50 AM   #816
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Re: Tesla and other Electric Cars Talk

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My housemate just bought a Model S 75. I didn't have time to get a test drive, but I sat in the front passenger seat. It was pretty nice.
If I'm understanding this correctly, someone who doesn't even have their own home purchased a $75,000 automobile.

Just making sure I've got this right.
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Old 09-16-17, 08:06 AM   #817
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Re: Tesla and other Electric Cars Talk

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If I'm understanding this correctly, someone who doesn't even have their own home purchased a $75,000 automobile.

Just making sure I've got this right.
What does that mean?

Home ownership is a mistake for most people. And millennials are killing it!
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Old 09-16-17, 05:59 PM   #818
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Re: Tesla and other Electric Cars Talk

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If I'm understanding this correctly, someone who doesn't even have their own home purchased a $75,000 automobile.

Just making sure I've got this right.
Speaking personally, buying a home is one of the best life decisions I've ever made. Glad I bought while I was young, as I now have equity in an investment that was a good one. It is now paid off, and increased in value precipitously.

I wouldn't regress to having roommates again even if i were offered a *free* Tesla for doing so. That was a "right of passage" and "trial by fire" during my college days -- late teens, that I'm long past.. What the allure is that 30s-40s adults have in remaining roommates, other than financial reasons is beyond me.

I would hope not too many people are buying Teslas who do not own property. The old saying "You've not got a pot to piss in, but you've got a fast ride" is most apropos here.

Millenials excepted, buying a home affords one a sense of permanence in community. I guess to Millenials, buying a Tesla *is* like buying a home to the rest of us....

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Old 09-16-17, 06:54 PM   #819
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Re: Tesla and other Electric Cars Talk

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I guess to Millenials, buying a Tesla *is* like buying a home to the rest of us....
And they have a place to stay when they go broke!

I agree with everything you say about home ownership. Though I am no longer on board for 'living' at a high % of your income. My best suggestion to everyone: if you can afford a Tesla, go buy a Chevy Volt. If you can only afford a Chevy Volt, go buy a Chevy Sonic. If you can't afford a house, or an expensive apartment, don't do it (move to a low-income neighborhood).

Everyone likes to live at 95%-100% their income. And then they can't afford to go anywhere or do anything. Or one car repair, health problem, or lapse in financial judgement, and you're burnt.
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Old 09-16-17, 07:08 PM   #820
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Re: Tesla and other Electric Cars Talk

Have you tried buying property in SoCal? Isn't cheap, and maybe they aren't planning to stay there permanently. A lot of people also prefer to rent somewhere fun rather than own out in the boonies, especially us single folk.

Regardless, I'm a millennial, albeit on the upper edge, I bought a house about 7 years ago when the market was shit and feel it was a good investment but little else, plan on renting it out in the near future.
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Old 09-16-17, 07:57 PM   #821
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Re: Tesla and other Electric Cars Talk

Oh yea. I can't justify a modest house in the Phoenix suburbs. I can't imagine paying $500k-$900k for a modest little house in the LA suburbs.
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Old 09-16-17, 08:26 PM   #822
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If I'm understanding this correctly, someone who doesn't even have their own home purchased a $75,000 automobile.

Just making sure I've got this right.
He owns the 3 BR condo, but he rents out the other two rooms. I'm thinking he's going to sell in a couple years or so and buy a house.

He had a recent problem with his Tesla not charging and took it to the dealer to have it fixed.
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Old 09-16-17, 08:35 PM   #823
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Re: Tesla and other Electric Cars Talk

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He owns the 3 BR condo, but he rents out the other two rooms. I'm thinking he's going to sell in a couple years or so and buy a house.

He had a recent problem with his Tesla not charging and took it to the dealer to have it fixed.
Got it. Thx. It was just one of those things that didn't sound quite right.
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Old 09-17-17, 03:52 AM   #824
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He owns the 3 BR condo, but he rents out the other two rooms. I'm thinking he's going to sell in a couple years or so and buy a house.

He had a recent problem with his Tesla not charging and took it to the dealer to have it fixed.
OK, all is right with the world again! I couldn't quite square in my mind how a person who is only renting a room, with roommates, could actually afford a new Tesla.

And, Troy, your figures are off, I'd say most Americans try to live on *100-150%* of their incomes, and contantly are in debt because of it.

I'm glad I can live on 20% of my income, and save the other 80% for that quickly-approaching Armageddon when having it saved might actually help save my life. Come soon the day, when some bribes might need to be made in order to quickly vacate the country, get into a safe haven, or some other such emergency where minutes count.
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