Unarmed teen gets shot by overzealous neighborhood watch (Florida!)UPDATE: Z Arrested

[Groucho]

Originally Posted by starman9000

Are those 2 pictures of Trayvon on the right supposed to make him look like a thug?

If he didn't want to look like a thug, he should have tried being born white or asian.

[TheBigDave]

Just to be clear, I don't believe Trayvon's school record has any relevance to whatever happened the night he died. And I certainly don't think getting suspended means he deserved to be killed.

But the rumors that Trayvon was suspended 10 days for tardiness seemed ridiculous. As I said before, that extreme punishment is usually reserved for repeat offenders or a serious infraction (like drugs).

The Miami Herald has more accurate information.

Multiple suspensions paint complicated portrait of Trayvon Martin

Miami Gardens teenager Trayvon Martin was suspended from school in October in an incident in which he was found in possession of women’s jewelry and a screwdriver that a schools security staffer described as a “burglary tool,” The Miami Herald has learned.

Trayvon, who claimed that an unnamed friend had given him the jewelry, was not disciplined because of the discovery, but was instead suspended for graffiti, according to a Miami-Dade Schools Police report obtained by The Miami Herald.

A lawyer for the dead teen’s family acknowledged Trayvon had been suspended for graffiti, but said the family knew nothing about the jewelry and the screwdriver, calling the information in the report an attempt to “demonize” the youth.

According to the report, on Oct. 21 staffers monitoring a security camera at Dr. Michael M. Krop Senior High School spotted Trayvon and two other students writing “W.T.F.,” an acronym for “What the f---,” on a hallway locker, according to schools police. The security employee, who knew Trayvon, confronted the teen and looked through his bag for the graffiti marker.

Trayvon’s backpack contained 12 pieces of jewelry, in addition to a watch and a large flathead screwdriver, according to the report, which described the screwdriver as a burglary tool.

Trayvon was asked if the jewelry, which was mostly women’s rings and earrings, belonged to his family or a girlfriend.

“Martin replied it’s not mine. A friend gave it to me,” according to the report. Trayvon declined to name the friend.

School police impounded the jewelry and sent photos of the items to detectives at Miami-Dade police for further investigation.

“Martin was suspended, warned and dismissed for the graffiti,” according to the report prepared by Miami-Dade Schools Police.

That suspension was followed four months later by another one, in February, in which Trayvon was caught with an empty plastic bag with traces of marijuana in it, the boy’s family’s attorney has confirmed. A schools police report obtained by The Miami Herald specifies two items: a bag with marijuana residue and a “marijuana pipe.”

The suspension was the third for the teen. On Monday, the family also acknowledged Trayvon had earlier been suspended for tardiness and truancy.

FULL ARTICLE - http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/2...t-trayvon.html

[DaveyJoe]

If he smoked weed you'd think he'd be less aggressive.

[grundle]

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/2...t-trayvon.html

Trayvon was caught with an empty plastic bag with traces of marijuana in it

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1375083.html

"If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon," Obama said

[Vibiana]

Originally Posted by wmansir

Asking someone what they are doing is picking a fight? Since you've already said you would punch someone in the face for asking you that, I guess you don't have to answer. But, even by the girlfriends account Martin was the one who initiated contact, confronting Zimmerman about following him. So, is following someone picking a fight?

ABCNews now reports a second witness told police that he saw Zimmerman on the ground, crying out for help, moments before the shots were fired. The only witness accounts I've read that have Martin yelling for help are from people who only heard the cries but did not actually see who it was.

FYI, Martin was suspended from school because because a search found a baggie with pot residue in his backpack.

Ever take a self-defense or personal security class? I have, and one of the things you're taught is to try to evade trouble if someone follows you, but if you can't get away, to be confident and confront a potential assailant, because sometimes just that will be effective in getting them to leave you alone and seek a more passive target.

Woooo, he had weed in his backpack? Yeah, he might have broken into people's houses and raided their Cheetos. Fact is, he was walking through the neighborhood. He wasn't rattling on doors, or peeping in windows, or doing anything that would have made someone suspicious unless they were a wannabe cop type like Zimmerman.

If Martin had been doing anything OTHER THAN walking through the neighborhood--if he'd been snooping in windows or whatever--then yeah, that's something to worry about. Walking through it? Not so much.

Originally Posted by cpgator

I don't see the issue with Zimmerman getting out of his car. He is part of a neighborhood watch, and was trying to stay in eye contact of someone he thought looked suspicious.

Neighborhood watch associations tell their patrol volunteers to STAY IN THE CAR and not confront anyone. They certainly don't advocate patrolling with a gun. There are MAJOR issues with Zimmerman getting out of the car, starting with the fact that the police dispatcher TOLD HIM NOT TO FOLLOW TRAYVON. Jeesh, it's like talking to a fucking brick wall.

[rw2516]

Originally Posted by wmansir

Asking someone what they are doing is picking a fight? Since you've already said you would punch someone in the face for asking you that, I guess you don't have to answer. But, even by the girlfriends account Martin was the one who initiated contact, confronting Zimmerman about following him. So, is following someone picking a fight?

This Florida law is so broad that, given you are not required to flee if threatened, confronting someone who is following you and shoving them to the ground and asking, "What the fuck you following me for motherfucker?" is perfectly legal as standing your ground.

Can't help thinking of two law abiding citizens walking toward each other at night on a deserted sidewalk. Both are legally carrying and wary of each other. The closer they get to each other the more threatened each becomes. Each becomes convinced the other is armed and means them harm so each goes for his gun. They shoot each other. One or both dies. No crime committed.

[zoomgirl]

Wow, this whole thing has turned into an attack the victim thing. However it turns out, it is really quite sad.

[grundle]

I think that George Zimmerman sought out, stalked, followed, hunted, and murdered Treyvon Martin, and he should get life in jail for what he did.

That being said, the mainstream media is being hugely biased by showing this outdated picture of Treyvon Martin:




That picture is from a long time ago.

The mainstream media is afraid to show us that the current Treyvon Martin has tattoos and gold teeeth, that his chosen screen name is "NO_LIMIT_NIGGA," and that his friends praised him for hurting Zimmerman:

http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-lineh...-a-drug-dealer

[grundle]

Originally Posted by zoomgirl

Wow, this whole thing has turned into an attack the victim thing. However it turns out, it is really quite sad.

Actually, the attack is against media bias. Please see post 282 for an explanation.

[Vibiana]

Originally Posted by grundle

The mainstream media is afraid to show us that the current Treyvon Martin has tattoos and gold teeeth, that his chosen screen name is "NO_LIMIT_NIGGA," and that his friends praised him for hurting Zimmerman:

The "current" Trayvon Martin is dead.

Also, what did you expect his friends to say about the guy who killed him? That he did a great job patrolling the neighborhood?

[TheBigDave]

Originally Posted by Vibiana

If Martin had been doing anything OTHER THAN walking through the neighborhood--if he'd been snooping in windows or whatever--then yeah, that's something to worry about. Walking through it? Not so much.

I've read in a couple places that Zimmerman initially noticed Trayvon standing in front of the clubhouse. He was under the awning because of the rain.

At shortly before 7:15, George Zimmerman, who volunteered for the development's neighborhood watch, spots Trayvon standing outside the development's clubhouse near the community mailboxes, where the teen had ducked under an awning to get out of the rain. Zimmerman calls police on a non-emergency number from his SUV, saying he sees a suspicious person.

When Trayvon leaves the clubhouse, Zimmerman pursues him in his car.

FULL ARTICLE - http://www.thegrio.com/specials/tray...-questions.php

Here's the first part of Zimmerman's 911 transcript. He seems to describe Travyon as milling around and not heading towards any particular destination.

Zimmerman: We’ve had some break-ins in my neighborhood and there’s a real suspicious guy. It’s Retreat View Circle. The best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he’s up to no good or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around looking about.

911 dispatcher: OK, is he White, Black, or Hispanic?

Zimmerman: He looks black.

911 dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing?

Zimmerman: Yeah, a dark hoodie like a gray hoodie. He wore jeans or sweat pants and white tennis shoes. He’s here now … he’s just staring.

911 dispatcher: He’s just walking around the area, the houses? OK.

Zimmerman: Now he’s staring at me.

911 dispatcher: OK, you said that’s 1111 Retreat View or 111?

Zimmerman: That’s the clubhouse.

911 dispatcher: He’s near the clubhouse now?

Zimmerman: Yeah, now he’s coming toward me. He’s got his hands in his waist band. And he’s a black male.

911 dispatcher: How old would you say he is?

Zimmerman: He’s got something on his shirt. About like his late teens.

911 dispatcher: Late teens?

Zimmerman: Uh, huh. Something’s wrong with him. Yep, he’s coming to check me out. He’s got something in his hands. I don’t know what his deal is.

[zoomgirl]

Wow, I hate to break it to you, but I don't believe that is the same kid. They may have similar facial features, but aside from that just look at the mouth on either kid. Looks pretty different to me. That being said, all race baiting aside I believe Zimmerman should have just stayed in his car.

[eXcentris]

- Trayvon had a 6 inch height advantage over Zimmerman
- Trayvon had a youth advantage over Zimmerman by 11 years
- Zimmerman is overweight and suffers from asthma

... ...

Hey, how about this instead:

- Trayvon was a skinny 6'3" kid bordering on anorexic
- Zimmerman is a grown 28 y/o man with an 11 year advantage over a 17 y/o teenager
- Zimmerman has an 80 pounds weight advantage over Trayvon

[cpgator]

Originally Posted by Vibiana

Neighborhood watch associations tell their patrol volunteers to STAY IN THE CAR and not confront anyone. They certainly don't advocate patrolling with a gun. There are MAJOR issues with Zimmerman getting out of the car, starting with the fact that the police dispatcher TOLD HIM NOT TO FOLLOW TRAYVON. Jeesh, it's like talking to a fucking brick wall.

So what are the major issues? Zimmerman saw someone in his neighborhood that looked suspicious to him and he followed they guy. I don't see why him getting out of his car makes him guilty of anything.

If it was my neighborhood and someone saw something, I would want them to keep an eye on him until the cops got there.

Wasn't there a thread here not too long ago about a poster getting confronted by a neighbor while he was taking out his trash? Poster was pissed about the guy asking him who we was and shinning a flashlight at him. All the posters in that thread seemed to think the other guy was being a good neighbor by checking out the situation instead of ignoring it. Things change like the weather around here...

[mhg83]

Originally Posted by Vibiana

Neighborhood watch associations tell their patrol volunteers to STAY IN THE CAR and not confront anyone. They certainly don't advocate patrolling with a gun. There are MAJOR issues with Zimmerman getting out of the car, starting with the fact that the police dispatcher TOLD HIM NOT TO FOLLOW TRAYVON. Jeesh, it's like talking to a fucking brick wall.

Wrong


"If Zimmerman was told not to continue to follow Trayvon, can that be considered in this investigation?

Yes it will; however, the telecommunications call taker asked Zimmerman “are you following him”. Zimmerman replied, “yes”. The call taker stated “you don’t need to do that”. The call taker’s suggestion is not a lawful order that Mr. Zimmerman would be required to follow. Zimmerman’s statement was that he had lost sight of Trayvon and was returning to his truck to meet the police officer when he says he was attacked by Trayvon."

[TomOpus]

Originally Posted by cpgator

If it was my neighborhood and someone saw something, I would want them to keep an eye on him until the cops got there.

Exactly!

You can do that in the car without having to brandish a gun. Keep your distance.

[cpgator]

Originally Posted by TomOpus

Exactly!

You can do that in the car without having to brandish a gun. Keep your distance.

Any evidence that his brandished the gun? And are you sure he could keep an eye on him from his car? No corners or anything in that neighborhood?

And here is the thread where it was perfectly okay for a neighbor (actually not even a neighbor) confronting a poster who looked suspicious.
http://forum.dvdtalk.com/other-talk/...own-house.html

[PopcornTreeCt]

Zimmerman provided his account today. It actually sounds pretty reasonable but at the same time, Trayvon isn't alive to dispute it.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...black-teenager

[zoomgirl]

Originally Posted by cpgator

So what are the major issues? Zimmerman saw someone in his neighborhood that looked suspicious to him and he followed they guy. I don't see why him getting out of his car makes him guilty of anything.

To me that is a big issue. If someone said Trayvon jumped on the hood of his car or that he went to his car and dragged him out of the window it would be entirely different. In my opion the action of getting out of the car can be considered confrontational. Hell if I thought I was being followed or was having words with someone and I was on the sidewalk and they were in a car, then they got out their car I would think they wanted to fight or I was about to be attacked.
He wants Trayvon to identify himself, but did Zimmerman identify himself? Was the car marked "Neighborhood Watch" or was Zimmerman wearing some sort of uniform? When Trevon asked "Why are you following me" Did he respond I'm George Zimmerman from the Neighborhood watch can you please tell me who you are and what you are doing around here?
Or did he just see some guy following him and get creeped out? Thus picking up the phone and telling his female friend mentioning while they were already on the phone?

[cpgator]

Originally Posted by zoomgirl

To me that is a big issue. If someone said Trayvon jumped on the hood of his car or that he went to his car and dragged him out of the window it would be entirely different. In my opion the action of getting out of the car can be considered confrontational. Hell if I thought I was being followed or was having words with someone and I was on the sidewalk and they were in a car, then they got out their car I would think they wanted to fight or I was about to be attacked.
He wants Trayvon to identify himself, but did Zimmerman identify himself? Was the car marked "Neighborhood Watch" or was Zimmerman wearing some sort of uniform? When Trevon asked "Why are you following me" Did he respond I'm George Zimmerman from the Neighborhood watch can you please tell me who you are and what you are doing around here?
Or did he just see some guy following him and get creeped out? Thus picking up the phone and telling his female friend mentioning while they were already on the phone?

If the two had an argument, and then zimmerman got out of his car, I could see that as confrontational. In this case, it doesn't appear he got out of his car to get into a fight.

And yes, I don't know what happened after he got out of his car, what words were said, or who attacked who. My only issue is with some thinking his act of getting out of the car is some proof of guilt.

[Giantrobo]

Originally Posted by PopcornTreeCt

Zimmerman provided his account today. It actually sounds pretty reasonable but at the same time, Trayvon isn't alive to dispute it.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...black-teenager

Let's say all this is true....

I wonder, how could this have been avoided? I just wonder....

[TheBigDave]

Originally Posted by TomOpus

You can do that in the car without having to brandish a gun. Keep your distance.

Zimmerman was watching from his car until Trayvon went down a path that cuts around the back of the townhouses. You can see on the video that the path isn't visible from the road.

[Giantrobo]

Originally Posted by cpgator

Wasn't there a thread here not too long ago about a poster getting confronted by a neighbor while he was taking out his trash? Poster was pissed about the guy asking him who we was and shinning a flashlight at him. All the posters in that thread seemed to think the other guy was being a good neighbor by checking out the situation instead of ignoring it. Things change like the weather around here...

I remember that thread. I forget...Did the OP of that thread get shot and killed?

[cpgator]

Originally Posted by Giantrobo

I remember that thread. I forget...Did the OP of that thread get shot and killed?

Issue is in that thread, the posters (including you) thought it was appropriate to confront the suspicious person, but in this thread it is wrong. I'm just wondering why opinions have changed...

[zoomgirl]

Originally Posted by cpgator

If the two had an argument, and then zimmerman got out of his car, I could see that as confrontational. In this case, it doesn't appear he got out of his car to get into a fight.

And yes, I don't know what happened after he got out of his car, what words were said, or who attacked who. My only issue is with some thinking his act of getting out of the car is some proof of guilt.

I understand your viewpoint though I may not agree. I think Zimmerman should have stayed in his car. I don't say that his getting out of the car is "proof of guilt" but he had already called the cops. He should have let them do their job. Even if he had lost sight of him it really sounds like the kid was just walking home. Describe him and let the cops canvas the area if need be. Maybe I would be more sympathetic if Zimmerman was not one of those guys that called 911 for the stupidest things. He strikes me as a guy that wanted to swoop in and save the day and be a hero.