Police officer murdered; am I out of line?

[Giantrobo]

Originally Posted by Red Dog

Murdered cops still come in 2nd to missing white girls ages 5-25.

Ok, I had to laugh at this one.

[Tommy Ceez]

Originally Posted by clckworang

But when I hear things like "come down on cop killers like the fist of an angry God," I'm thinking about punishment, legal issues and the court system, not necessarily the resources that go into the investigation.

No

It also means that your neighborhood will be blanketed, your face will be on every TV screen, and you will be arrested 10x quicker.

[foggy]

Originally Posted by Bandoman

If that kind of presumption was made about any other group, I suspect you'd scream discrimination.

If you had written "any other group besides lawyers" I would agree.

[Suprmallet]

Originally Posted by Nick Danger

Are you going to try to prove that assertion?

Are you presuming that he didn't? Can you back that up?

[edstein]

Cops, fireman, and our military soldiers put their lives at stake everyday. Spending a little extra resources to help them out is the least we can do as a society.

[SmackDaddy]

While I have all the respect in the world for them, it doesn't make them more important than anyone else in the grand scheme of things. I get the point that the OP was trying to make.

You see a news story of a cop involved in an traffic ACCIDENT (not a shooting) and there are 10 police cars at the scene "investigating". The fact that they are not actively pursuing another "case" doesn't mean their lack of presence somewhere else isn't having a negative effect.

How would any of you feel if those extra resources could have prevented the death of a loved one? Would you say to yourself "That's ok, that officer was more important than my mom/wife/child."?

[Deftones]

Originally Posted by SmackDaddy

While I have all the respect in the world for them, it doesn't make them more important than anyone else in the grand scheme of things. I get the point that the OP was trying to make.

You see a news story of a cop involved in an traffic ACCIDENT (not a shooting) and there are 10 police cars at the scene "investigating". The fact that they are not actively pursuing another "case" doesn't mean their lack of presence somewhere else isn't having a negative effect.

How would any of you feel if those extra resources could have prevented the death of a loved one? Would you say to yourself "That's ok, that officer was more important than my mom/wife/child."?

Most patrol officers don't actively pursue cases. They respond to calls.

[SmackDaddy]

Originally Posted by Deftones

Most patrol officers don't actively pursue cases. They respond to calls.

I think you get my point though. I guess it should read actively patrolling. I think people underestimate what mere police presence can do to deter crime. A would be criminal will think twice before attempting a crime in an area with regular patrols rather than one that hardly gets any attention.

So, when disproportionate number of patrol cars, detectives or whatever other resource is dedicated to one crime (although this thread is about an officer, it also happens when a local person of "importance" is involved) other cases/investigations/patrols will suffer. Is that fair?

[clckworang]

Originally Posted by Deftones

Most patrol officers don't actively pursue cases. They respond to calls.

Or I would assume they are driving and patrolling different areas. I think SmackDaddy's point could still be applicable.

[Deftones]

Originally Posted by clckworang

Or I would assume they are driving and patrolling different areas. I think SmackDaddy's point could still be applicable.

I'm not arguing with anything he said. I'm simply correcting an incorrect statement he made.

[CaptainMarvel]

Originally Posted by SmackDaddy

You see a news story of a cop involved in an traffic ACCIDENT (not a shooting) and there are 10 police cars at the scene "investigating". The fact that they are not actively pursuing another "case" doesn't mean their lack of presence somewhere else isn't having a negative effect.

That's an enormous straw man, predicated on the idea that 10 police cars show up to investigate an accident. I've never, ever, seen that many at an officer involved accident (with the exception of an "accident" with fatalities that began as a robbery, turned into a pursuit involving 4 agencies, and ended up with the suspect vehicle being spiked and running into a tree at about 70 mph). I was involved in an accident on duty, and we had two units show up to direct traffic until the second LE agency that was working the wreck (due to our agency's conflict of interest) showed up and had us pull into a parking lot. The two that were directing traffic went back into service while the officer from the second agency worked the accident. My supervisor also showed up to fill out our department's accident paperwork. Other than me (a party to the accident), there were never more than two officers out on the accident at a time.

At the really, really bad non-officer involved accidents around here, you get maybe 3 officers working the wreck (one to process the accident report, with 2 others to redirect traffic). If it's a really serious wreck, a supervisor might show up. If it's a fatality, administrators might show up, but it's not like they'd be humping calls if they weren't on scene.

How would any of you feel if those extra resources could have prevented the death of a loved one? Would you say to yourself "That's ok, that officer was more important than my mom/wife/child."?

I'm not sure that's a fair question. How would you feel if officers responding to a $5 shoplifter at Wal-mart could have prevented the murder? Or officers responding to an animal complaint could have saved the life of a loved one? Almost everybody would rather have police "prevent the death of a loved one," but that doesn't mean we spend all day ignoring the other activities we need to do for our job just in the off chance that our presence elsewhere might have speculatively prevented a murder.

[BJacks]

Some people seem to be making this more complicated than it should be. You can't go around shooting cops. It doesn't only effect the victim, it affects our entire legal system, community, society, etc. So when a cop is murdered, yes, IMO it is warranted to throw as many resources as they can towards solving the crime. It'd be great if they could pour that effort into every single non-cop related murder but that's an untenable desire. So you extend full resources in those extreme circumstances, of which the murder of a police officer certainly should qualify. I have no problem with that.

[DeputyDave]

1) The traffic thing: Yes, more police show up to the accident involving an on duty cop than a "regular person". The problem is you're assuming they are there to provide support and solidarity. No, they are there because every mistake we make is investigated for signs that we were not doing our job properly. Believe me, if I fucked up and got into an accident I only want one of my fellow officers to show up, low key and without lights. What really happens is at least one other patrol deputy, my sergeant in his car, my LT in his car, and highway patrol in their car (as an impartial expert investigator), and if it were serious enough (god forbid) IAD. All my fine cop haters here want this because I can promise you none of them (except maybe that first deputy) are looking to give me a break.

2) Cop killers worse than child killers: In my opinion someone who would knowingly kill a police office is simply a more dangerous animal. Sure, killing a kid is horrible and I feel more tragic than killing an officer, but it’s been my experience that most child killers are simply not dangerous to average people. What I’m saying that an average child killer (while despicable) will generally only target children and then only when the opportunity arises (now, this coming from someone who was attacked by Brandon Wilson my first week as a trainee in the jail). Someone who would kill a cop is a supreme danger to EVERONE. They simply do not care and have no fear. A lion or tiger is dangerous but a man eater must be hunted down and killed.

3) Cop killers get more resources: OK, I’ll be the first guy to admit that yeah, cop killers get more attention from the police. Does that mean we slack off when it is Joe Citizen, no, of course not. If it’s someone I know or work with, though, I’ll be more likely to put in work off the clock, and using my down time between calls to help out. Should we do that for every murder? Maybe, but it would be impossible to maintain that level of alertness and activity at all times. It’s just not humanly possible. It happens across all spectrums of society and in all jobs. When I worked at McDonalds as a teen the burger and fries I got when I ordered there was better than Joe Citizen’s as well, and it was the same for every job I had after that (all 15), I got slightly better service when acting as a customer in my place of business.

[dan30oly]

My turn for an out of line statement:

I turn on the tv (Seattle market) and every single local channel with only one exception is showing the memorial service for the slain officer. This "event" has been happening since 9am (it's 1pm now). There are thousands of officers packed into Key Arena.

Who is paying for this? Are the officers getting paid OT to march down the streets and attend the funeral? Who is paying for the use of Key Arena?

My thoughts are that this is a bit much. Obviously there should be some kind of respectful funeral with a police presence, but what I am seeing seems ridiculous to me.

[Goldblum]

Originally Posted by dan30oly

My turn for an out of line statement:

I turn on the tv (Seattle market) and every single local channel with only one exception is showing the memorial service for the slain officer. This "event" has been happening since 9am (it's 1pm now). There are thousands of officers packed into Key Arena.

Who is paying for this? Are the officers getting paid OT to march down the streets and attend the funeral? Who is paying for the use of Key Arena?

My thoughts are that this is a bit much. Obviously there should be some kind of respectful funeral with a police presence, but what I am seeing seems ridiculous to me.

If it were national coverage, then maybe. But local coverage? Sounds fine to me.

[DeputyDave]

Originally Posted by dan30oly

My turn for an out of line statement:

I turn on the tv (Seattle market) and every single local channel with only one exception is showing the memorial service for the slain officer. This "event" has been happening since 9am (it's 1pm now). There are thousands of officers packed into Key Arena.

Who is paying for this? Are the officers getting paid OT to march down the streets and attend the funeral? Who is paying for the use of Key Arena?

My thoughts are that this is a bit much. Obviously there should be some kind of respectful funeral with a police presence, but what I am seeing seems ridiculous to me.

No, the officers aren’t getting paid to attend the funeral (with the exception of those already on duty given permission to attend). I would bet the arena space is being donated. If not, don't worry, your tax dollars aren't paying for it. There should be a fund set up by their Union or Association. No need to stress out about it.

[dan30oly]

Originally Posted by DeputyDave

No, the officers aren’t getting paid to attend the funeral (with the exception of those already on duty given permission to attend). I would bet the arena space is being donated. If not, don't worry, your tax dollars aren't paying for it. There should be a fund set up by their Union or Association. No need to stress out about it.

Fair enough.

[Canadian Bacon]

Originally Posted by Hokeyboy

In my opinion, your average cop is corrupt and morally deficient until proven otherwise.

Is everyone working a McDonald's drive in window an anticop douche or are you one of the few?

[Hokeyboy]

Originally Posted by Canadian Bacon

Is everyone working a McDonald's drive in window an anticop douche or are you one of the few?

Tell you what Cupcake, anytime you wanna compare W2s you just drop me a PM.

[CaptainMarvel]

Originally Posted by Canadian Bacon

Is everyone working a McDonald's drive in window an anticop douche or are you one of the few?

He's probably a very well paid anticop douche, thank you very much.

[Rockmjd23]

Originally Posted by CaptainMarvel

He's probably a very well paid anticop douche, thank you very much.

You are probably involved in illegal/illicit activity.

[CaptainMarvel]

Originally Posted by Rockmjd23

You are probably involved in illegal/illicit activity.

I am. I'm ripping tags off my mattress as I type this. And I'm using household cleaning products for non-approved purposes.

[Hokeyboy]

Originally Posted by CaptainMarvel

He's probably a very well paid anticop douche, thank you very much.

Not for nothing but for giving my sig more continuity, I owe you a case of crullers or something.

[FiveO]

As a police officer (deputy sheriff actually) I have put some thought into this..and to the orignal poster I will say this.....

Yes you are out of line...meaning that when law enforcement loses someone to a random street shooting we're going to take it personally..its an assault on the establishment...so to speak.

But...I will also add this: When the random person is taken out like this officer was there is and would be a public outcry. Rewards offered, etc.

We as law enforcement have long been viewed as a "brotherhood" and in some ways we are....but I ask you this...

If someone you worked with was killed...wouldn't you do the best you could...everything in your power to find the killer? And add to that...if someone across the country who had the EXACT same job as you died...wouldn't you go..."wow...I could have died in the same way"....and do whatever you could to find the killer?


Just something to think about.

I've lost a fellow officer in the line of duty...22 sworn officers...small department.

May 3rd, 1996...sleeping off a nightshift and called in at about noon.

I had to go up and tell the officers kids (at their school) that their father was dead. 3 kids.

Worst day of my life...hands down.

It can come down to just another person dying or it can come down to "another officer dying"....

it comes down to someone dying that I have a connection with...

And even though I didn't know the officer that died in this story..I can share is grief....why?

Because I've been there....in a patrol car...teaching a new officer what to do and how to do it.


I've been that cop who got shot...I just haven't been there at the time.

That cop wasn't shot because he was a certain person..he was shot because he was a cop.

I really hope that makes sense.

[FiveO]

Forgot to add that in 2005 we had a homicide that went unsolved for 2 years....

I worked a TON of overtime...

We offered rewards,etc...put up billboards...

Finally it got solved by DNA and a confession.

We worked everything we could to solve it...every single angle and interview.


It was solved and a conviction gotten. 26 years prison for the perp.


PS: She was a prostitute out of Minneapolis.... someone that many people may have given up on...but not us and not our department.